Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Oil With Some Tenacity?

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Oil With Some Tenacity?

Old 04-27-20, 05:08 PM
  #1  
Bianchi84
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Bianchi84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Concord, NC
Posts: 454

Bikes: 1984 Bianchi Tipo Corsa, 1985 Cannondale SM600 (24/26)

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 145 Post(s)
Liked 107 Times in 70 Posts
Oil With Some Tenacity?

I am looking for suggestions for a less-expensive substitute for Phil's Tenacious Oil. For the amount I need to use it, I can't justify (too cheap to pay) the price. I want it for freewheel use and most lubes, even motor oils seem too thin. I know, ideally, I should re-grease them, but for various reasons that's not possible right now. Any suggestions for a heavier, "stickier" basic lube that won't gum up the works?
Bianchi84 is offline  
Old 04-27-20, 06:01 PM
  #2  
merziac
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 7,438

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 156 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2228 Post(s)
Liked 1,360 Times in 924 Posts
Bianchi84

I have good luck with 20-50 racing oil for freewheels after I do a pathetic gravity flush with Marvel mystery oil, like I said, pathetic but has worked just fine many times for a long time.
merziac is offline  
Likes For merziac:
Old 04-27-20, 06:44 PM
  #3  
nomadmax 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 1,748
Mentioned: 93 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 783 Post(s)
Liked 1,017 Times in 520 Posts
Fluid Film
nomadmax is offline  
Old 04-27-20, 06:59 PM
  #4  
Kilroy1988 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Visalia, CA
Posts: 1,525
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 648 Post(s)
Liked 440 Times in 216 Posts
I've been using the same Phil oil and grease for almost a decade, and before that the tubes were sitting NOS on an old dealer's shelf since the early 1980s. I think the product is a worthwhile investment! I'll be buying more once I run out, even if it does take a sizeable fraction of a lifetime to use the stuff. It's only $8 or so for a bottle...

-Gregory
Kilroy1988 is offline  
Old 04-27-20, 07:07 PM
  #5  
Bianchi84
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Bianchi84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Concord, NC
Posts: 454

Bikes: 1984 Bianchi Tipo Corsa, 1985 Cannondale SM600 (24/26)

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 145 Post(s)
Liked 107 Times in 70 Posts
Thanks for the suggestions!
Bianchi84 is offline  
Old 04-27-20, 08:44 PM
  #6  
WGB
WGB
 
WGB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Niagara Region
Posts: 2,482

Bikes: Astron Corsaro, Fuji Espree and Takara GT

Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 746 Post(s)
Liked 240 Times in 190 Posts
Is there a "special" oil for Sturmey-Archer 3 speed hubs? Was going to add sewing machine oil in the port.
WGB is offline  
Old 04-27-20, 08:56 PM
  #7  
noglider 
aka Tom Reingold
 
noglider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 39,799

Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem

Mentioned: 484 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6816 Post(s)
Liked 1,416 Times in 907 Posts
For viscous oil, I use chainsaw and bar oil. It's pretty good.

But then I discovered Chain-L is even a little nicer. Sure it costs a lot more per ounce than a bottle of motor oil, but I only use it on my chains, so the cost to use it is still low.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author

Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
noglider is offline  
Likes For noglider:
Old 04-28-20, 05:07 AM
  #8  
randyjawa 
Senior Member
 
randyjawa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada - burrrrr!
Posts: 10,565

Bikes: 1958 Rabeneick 120D, 1968 Legnano Gran Premio, 196? Torpado Professional, 2000 Marinoni Piuma

Mentioned: 181 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1013 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 742 Times in 457 Posts
When I worked as an industrial mechanic, I had access to a parts bath (steaming hot with some kind of strong soap in it. That solution (kept in a big steam heated tank) coupled with a strong water flush, followed by a blowing out with compressed air, did a pretty good job of cleaning the insides out.

Once clean and blown dry, I would lubricate with thin consistency hydraulic oil. These days, no tank but a good flushing with WD40 and compressed air blow out works OK. For lube, I flush with WD40 and blow most of that out. Then Pro-Link dripped into the freewheel until it starts to come out the other side.

Been doing that for two or more decades now. Still going strong and I feel so free as I wheel my way from here to there and back again.
__________________
"98% of the bikes I buy are projects".
randyjawa is offline  
Likes For randyjawa:
Old 04-28-20, 07:09 AM
  #9  
Mr. 66
Senior Member
 
Mr. 66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,587
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 482 Post(s)
Liked 347 Times in 249 Posts
I'd go with an "all season" chainsaw oil. The reagular oil gets really slow in the winter.
Mr. 66 is offline  
Likes For Mr. 66:
Old 04-28-20, 09:51 AM
  #10  
noglider 
aka Tom Reingold
 
noglider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 39,799

Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem

Mentioned: 484 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6816 Post(s)
Liked 1,416 Times in 907 Posts
I just noticed you're asking about a lube for a freewheel. I wouldn't use a heavy oil there. If it gums up, it's a problem.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author

Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
noglider is offline  
Old 04-28-20, 10:16 AM
  #11  
branko_76 
Senior Member
 
branko_76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: The Urban Shores Of Michigami
Posts: 1,323

Bikes: ........................................ .....Holdsworth "Special"..... .......Falcon "Special".......... .....Raleigh "Super GP"...... ........................................

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 518 Post(s)
Liked 418 Times in 268 Posts
Does anyone know why the new Phil Tenacious Oil bottle is white? Same goes for the grease, it's no longer in the minty green container.
branko_76 is offline  
Old 04-28-20, 10:52 AM
  #12  
Salamandrine 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 6,287

Bikes: 78 Masi Criterium, 68 PX10, 2016 Mercian King of Mercia, Rivendell Clem Smith Jr

Mentioned: 120 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2310 Post(s)
Liked 557 Times in 401 Posts
Phil Tenacious oil works great on freewheels. Nothing like that smooth quiet whir. I've used it my whole life and never had any problems. It is possible there could be some issue in subfreezing weather. I don't know.

I cheaped out for a couple years and avoided buying it. The price has gone up. I'm sure I spent more on various alternatives that didn't work as well. Eventually I just ponied up the $10, and I'm glad I did.

Perhaps 140w gear oil might be similar, if you happen to have some around already. Really almost any oil will do the job, but the Phil's makes them run very quiet and smooth.
Salamandrine is offline  
Old 04-28-20, 11:03 AM
  #13  
repechage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 15,452
Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1734 Post(s)
Liked 614 Times in 477 Posts
Originally Posted by WGB View Post
Is there a "special" oil for Sturmey-Archer 3 speed hubs? Was going to add sewing machine oil in the port.
sewing machine oil is pretty lightweight.
Others have over time suggested 30w Non Detergent.
IF the hub has been sitting for a long time... decades even.
I have flushed it out to dissolve the "varnish" (monitor the color of what flushes out)
Then 30 w.
After repacking the outboard bearings
Oh, if it has an earlier metal flip lid port, park the bike with the oil port up.
The plastic ports sealed better, even they leak some.
The seal on the metal lids are most likely dead.
repechage is offline  
Old 04-28-20, 11:26 AM
  #14  
wesmamyke 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 970
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 190 Post(s)
Liked 27 Times in 23 Posts
Originally Posted by branko_76 View Post
Does anyone know why the new Phil Tenacious Oil bottle is white? Same goes for the grease, it's no longer in the minty green container.
They just changed the packaging at some point. It's actually kinda handy, now you can tell if the bottle/tube is new-ish, or 30 years old.
wesmamyke is offline  
Old 04-28-20, 11:51 AM
  #15  
scarlson
Senior Member
 
scarlson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Medford MA
Posts: 1,207

Bikes: Ron Cooper touring, 1959 Jack Taylor 650b ladyback touring tandem, Vitus 979, Joe Bell painted Claud Butler Dalesman, Colin Laing curved tube tandem, heavily-Dilberted 1982 Trek 6xx, René Herse tandem

Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 524 Post(s)
Liked 641 Times in 369 Posts
+1 for bar&chain oil!

I can't really tell the difference between this stuff and Phil oil. have a theory that Phil just buys bulk stock bar&chain oil and adds green dye.

I have oiled Shimano freehub bodies with bar&chain oil and they work down to the teens of degrees, Fahrenheit, on my daily commute.
scarlson is offline  
Old 04-28-20, 12:00 PM
  #16  
dmark 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: NJ
Posts: 310

Bikes: 84 Pinnarello Treviso NR, 72 PX-10, 91 Trek 930, 72 Fuji Finest, 90 Trek 750

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 92 Post(s)
Liked 62 Times in 46 Posts
I use ND 30w (non detergent); it is what is recommended for compressors.
A multigrade 20w-40 is a 20 weight oil at bicycle temps.
dmark is offline  
Old 04-28-20, 01:30 PM
  #17  
clubman 
Youngman Grand
 
clubman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,158

Bikes: roadsters, club bikes, fixed and classic

Mentioned: 100 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1653 Post(s)
Liked 766 Times in 505 Posts
Originally Posted by WGB View Post
Is there a "special" oil for Sturmey-Archer 3 speed hubs? Was going to add sewing machine oil in the port.
Yes indeed there is. No SA hub will work without it. Yours for $200 for an NOS can. (ballpark estimate from pbbikes)

But seriously, just don't use vegetable based 3-in-1. You can use the dino version, I think the can is blue.

clubman is offline  
Old 04-28-20, 02:41 PM
  #18  
merziac
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 7,438

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 156 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2228 Post(s)
Liked 1,360 Times in 924 Posts
Originally Posted by wesmamyke View Post
They just changed the packaging at some point. It's actually kinda handy, now you can tell if the bottle/tube is new-ish, or 30 years old.
I would be willing to bet good money the white plastic is cheaper, probably saves a whole 1/100 of a cent per unit.
merziac is offline  
Old 04-28-20, 02:47 PM
  #19  
masi61
Senior Member
 
masi61's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 2,853

Bikes: Puch Marco Polo, Saint Tropez, Masi Gran Criterium

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 714 Post(s)
Liked 137 Times in 103 Posts
Pedro's Syn-Lube has been a good product for me for not much money.
masi61 is offline  
Old 04-28-20, 03:46 PM
  #20  
squirtdad
Senior Member
 
squirtdad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Jose (Willow Glen) Ca
Posts: 7,399

Bikes: 85 team Miyata (modern 5800 105) , '84 Team Miyata,(dura ace old school) '82 nishiski,

Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1303 Post(s)
Liked 556 Times in 398 Posts
I am curious what is the situation that you use so much oiil that $10 for 4 oz is too expensive? i have a bottle that has lasted for years...mostly used to smooth quiet freewheels....not a lot other use for me.


I fully admit these and similar (what grease, what chain lube, can i use mineral oil from the laxative section in my hydraulic brakes, can I use bear grease on my brooks, etc) make me ask why? Why cheap out from products designed to do what they are supposed to do with substitutes? I can see if maybe it is a coop doing 1000 bikes a month...but then you can probably get industrial amounts and lower cost on the right stuff

.
__________________
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
squirtdad is online now  
Likes For squirtdad:
Old 04-28-20, 05:57 PM
  #21  
mechanicmatt
Hoards Thumbshifters
 
mechanicmatt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Signal Mountain, TN
Posts: 990

Bikes: '87 Bruce Gordon Chinook, '08 Jamis Aurora, '86 Trek 560, '97 Mongoose Rockadile, & '07 Stumpjumper

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 173 Post(s)
Liked 180 Times in 111 Posts
I like finish line wet lube, very similar but I think it is better. I think it is the same price though.
mechanicmatt is offline  
Old 04-28-20, 06:07 PM
  #22  
curbtender
Senior Member
 
curbtender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: SF Bay Area, East bay
Posts: 6,685

Bikes: Marinoni, Kestral 200 2002 Trek 5200, KHS Flite, Koga Miyata, Schwinn Spitfire 5, Schwinn Speedster, Mondia Special, Univega Alpina, Miyata team Ti, MB3

Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 939 Post(s)
Liked 479 Times in 338 Posts
A mechanic at work gave me a can of this stuff to lube some of the pins for lifts on my truck. It sprays in, bubbles up then coagulated. I didn't realize how expensive it was until I just searched and I'm almost out, dang...
https://www.ebay.com/p/1407376980?ii...xoCplIQAvD_BwE
curbtender is offline  
Old 04-28-20, 06:41 PM
  #23  
WGB
WGB
 
WGB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Niagara Region
Posts: 2,482

Bikes: Astron Corsaro, Fuji Espree and Takara GT

Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 746 Post(s)
Liked 240 Times in 190 Posts
repechage Thanks. I'll try the 30w non detergent. The hub was stripped fully and scrubbed of all old grease. It has the plastic oil ports. I haven't a wheel to build up at this time but don't want to leave it and forget it and have it rust inside in the meantime. I had two hubs to rebuild but lost a pawl spring for one and after cleaning all those parts only to lose that spring I don't want to now let either hub get rusty.

clubman
Lol! I bet there were many owners who bought that oil. Cool looking collectibles!!
WGB is offline  
Old 04-28-20, 06:55 PM
  #24  
clubman 
Youngman Grand
 
clubman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,158

Bikes: roadsters, club bikes, fixed and classic

Mentioned: 100 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1653 Post(s)
Liked 766 Times in 505 Posts
Originally Posted by WGB View Post
repechage Thanks. I'll try the 30w non detergent. The hub was stripped fully and scrubbed of all old grease. It has the plastic oil ports. I haven't a wheel to build up at this time but don't want to leave it and forget it and have it rust inside in the meantime. I had two hubs to rebuild but lost a pawl spring for one and after cleaning all those parts only to lose that spring I don't want to now let either hub get rusty.

clubman
Lol! I bet there were many owners who bought that oil. Cool looking collectibles!!
I bought 3 or 4 cans back in the late 80's. I use them on all my 3 speeds and they'll outlast me. The applicator nozzle is the shiz for those SA filler caps. I've been told they are straight 20 weight machine oil.
clubman is offline  
Old 04-28-20, 07:16 PM
  #25  
verktyg 
verktyg
 
verktyg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 3,412

Bikes: Current favorites: 1988 Peugeot Birraritz, 1984 Gitane Super Corsa, 1981 Bianchi Campione Del Mondo, 1992 Paramount OS, 1990 Bianchi Mondiale, 1988 Colnago Technos, 1985 RalieghUSA Team Pro, 1973 Holdsworth

Mentioned: 167 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 748 Post(s)
Liked 416 Times in 278 Posts
Phil Tenacious Oil

Phil Tenacious Oil is 120W transmission gear oil. You can smell the sulfur used as an extreme pressure additive. Packaging the stuff in those little bottles is the most expensive part of the cost.

I've used the stuff for years on FWs and also some pedals, a few drops at a time. I had a bottle that I bought back in 1980. I replaced it a few years ago. Price amortized over ~35 years? Priceless!

Lubricating FWs with grease is a bad idea because many automotive type greases consist of mineral oil blended into a paste like material. Over time the paste hardens and the oil dissipates which can cause the FW pawls to stick allowing you to spin in both directions!

Grease comes in handy to hold the ball bearings in place while reassembling a FW.

BITD I rebuilt several FWs but then I realized that for $5-$7 for a new one, it wasn't worth my time.

A few years back, I had a NOS Suntour New Winner Pro that needed to have a shim or two removed because it was too loose. I used a prick punch to loosen the lock ring and all of a sudden I had a shower of balls raining out. As I was reassembling the FW with new balls, I remembered why I don't rebuild them.

Something everyone should try ONCE!

pastorbobnlnh Pastor Bob our resident FW guru should be chiming in soon.

verktyg
__________________
Things aren't always what they seem... Don't believe everything you think!

Chas. ;-)

Last edited by verktyg; 04-28-20 at 07:20 PM.
verktyg is offline  
Likes For verktyg:

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.