Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Bottom bracket for using Specialites TA cranks on a modern bike

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Bottom bracket for using Specialites TA cranks on a modern bike

Old 04-29-20, 06:54 AM
  #1  
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
ToniH.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 73

Bikes: 66' Rene Herse, 75' Alex Singer, 80' Routens Touring, custom Rivendell, Miyata 600GT

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked 23 Times in 15 Posts
Bottom bracket for using Specialites TA cranks on a modern bike

Hello,

I'm building a surly long haul trucker for my wife and Specialites TA cranks seem to be only decent ones I have found in 160mm lenght. I found a pair but I'm a bit confused which bottom bracket to choose to make these french parts to work on a modern frame and get the chain line as it should be. Any suggestions? We are planing to do some touring so it should be something that would last and be trouble free.

Thanks!
ToniH. is offline  
Old 04-29-20, 07:12 AM
  #2  
Senior Member
 
bargainguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Trekland
Posts: 2,281
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 515 Post(s)
Liked 293 Times in 184 Posts
Yes. I like short cranks too, and there are alternatives to T/A in 160mm. That makes BB matching a lot easier.

One person who shortens cranks is Mark Stonich. I've had him shorten a couple cranks for me. Not all cranks can be shortened, fair warning.

See his website for options: BikeSmith Design and Fabrication
bargainguy is offline  
Likes For bargainguy:
Old 04-29-20, 08:04 AM
  #3  
Full Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 281

Bikes: Allegro Model 77, Gitane Team Pro SLX, Waterford R2200

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 68 Post(s)
Liked 57 Times in 38 Posts
I think your question is what bottom bracket do you need. Obviously, a TA Specialtes bottom bracket would work. The attachment shows BB for various brands, scroll down to TA. Hope this helps.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bbsize.html
Steelman54 is offline  
Old 04-29-20, 08:04 AM
  #4  
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 24,934

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3571 Post(s)
Liked 3,366 Times in 1,915 Posts
The OEM spindle for a TA double is the #344. If you're looking to mount the crank on a modern cartridge, you'll want something with a similar drive-side extension:

JohnDThompson is offline  
Old 04-29-20, 08:05 AM
  #5  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,068
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1090 Post(s)
Liked 329 Times in 245 Posts
Surly uses a normal threaded BB shell . There is not a problem. Pay no attention to the French vintage shape of the taper, it will work with any spindle you can find. Spindle length for proper chainline with a 135mm 11 speed hub is by trial and error.
63rickert is offline  
Old 04-29-20, 08:42 AM
  #6  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 6,287

Bikes: 78 Masi Criterium, 68 PX10, 2016 Mercian King of Mercia, Rivendell Clem Smith Jr

Mentioned: 120 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2317 Post(s)
Liked 597 Times in 430 Posts
Any modern sealed JIS bottom bracket will work, if it's the right length, if that's what you're wondering.

Length determination generally will involve trial and error, as noted above ^^^, which is why this is always something that you should consider taking to your LBS. If I had to guess I'd start with 115 for double and 118 for triple.

Phil Wood bottom brackets are expensive, but I like them because they adjustable, and I am OCD enough that I prefer my chainlines to be perfect. Also they are very well made, at least nowadays.
Salamandrine is offline  
Old 04-29-20, 09:04 AM
  #7  
Pedal to the medal
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: The Arsenal of Democracy
Posts: 1,348

Bikes: 1991 Team Miyata Track, 1992 Lemond Alpe d'Huez, 19?? Schwinn High Serra, 1982 Trek 614, 198X Raleigh Alyeska

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 286 Post(s)
Liked 198 Times in 127 Posts
+1 for Phil Wood bb's, especially for touring as they are overbuilt and therefore very reliable in addition to being adjustable as mentioned above.
romperrr is offline  
Old 04-29-20, 09:07 AM
  #8  
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,930

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 304 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26243 Post(s)
Liked 10,227 Times in 7,097 Posts
.
...just another thing to consider on this : Depending on what you choose for your cluster gearing in the rear, you get more or less locked in to a particular chain link width (6-8 speed, 10 speed, 11 speed, etc.). Not sure how difficult it might be to get the narrower chains to fit on the chainwheel teeth of a TA crank, because I've never tried it. You should be fine if you stay with 8 or less on the back.

Nt certain what might be involved if you want to try adapting modern, narrower 10-11 speed chainrings to an old TA crank. Again, this is something I've not attempted.
3alarmer is offline  
Old 04-29-20, 10:33 AM
  #9  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,068
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1090 Post(s)
Liked 329 Times in 245 Posts
Hmmm. Good question what will work with modern narrower chains. Velo Orange says their rings are good with ten speed cassettes. Found a link saying Sun XCD should be 8 or fewer, not sure if I believe that. Original TA no way past 8. My bikes I will never need to know. Once changed a 1/8” TA chainring to 3/32”, not recommended.
63rickert is offline  
Old 04-29-20, 12:56 PM
  #10  
Disciple of St. Tullio
 
Choke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: State of Jefferson
Posts: 740

Bikes: Ciöcc, Bianchi, DeRosa, Eddy Merckx, Frejus, Hampsten, Kondor, Losa, Magni, Pegoretti, Pelizzoli, Pogliaghi, Scapin

Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 264 Post(s)
Liked 326 Times in 138 Posts
I have a TA crank with their current production rings (30/46) and I am using a 9sp chain. It shifts like they were made for each other.
Choke is offline  
Likes For Choke:
Old 04-29-20, 01:10 PM
  #11  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 6,287

Bikes: 78 Masi Criterium, 68 PX10, 2016 Mercian King of Mercia, Rivendell Clem Smith Jr

Mentioned: 120 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2317 Post(s)
Liked 597 Times in 430 Posts
Originally Posted by Choke
I have a TA crank with their current production rings (30/46) and I am using a 9sp chain. It shifts like they were made for each other.
Yeah I was going to mention that maybe the current issue chainrings will handle narrower chains. Also it should be noted that TA is still going and you can buy brand new Cyclotouriste crankarms etc. They might even have a BB. There's a website somewhere. Not sure if it is French only.
Salamandrine is offline  
Old 04-29-20, 02:15 PM
  #12  
Disciple of St. Tullio
 
Choke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: State of Jefferson
Posts: 740

Bikes: Ciöcc, Bianchi, DeRosa, Eddy Merckx, Frejus, Hampsten, Kondor, Losa, Magni, Pegoretti, Pelizzoli, Pogliaghi, Scapin

Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 264 Post(s)
Liked 326 Times in 138 Posts
Originally Posted by Salamandrine
Yeah I was going to mention that maybe the current issue chainrings will handle narrower chains. Also it should be noted that TA is still going and you can buy brand new Cyclotouriste crankarms etc. They might even have a BB. There's a website somewhere. Not sure if it is French only.
I would think that even the older chainrings would have no problem with newer, narrower chains. All chains from 5sp to 11sp are the same width on the inside (3/32", 2.38mm) and only the outside distance changes. I use a 9sp chain on all my vintage bikes and they have worked fine over a variety of different parts. The only possible place that I could see a problem would be if the chain was narrower than the chainring spacing and would get caught in between, but that hasn't happened with the older cranks that I use....Campy, Zeus and TA.

A few years ago I did some measurements out of curiosity. I measured the chainrings at the base of the tooth since they taper towards the peak and for the back I measured the thickness of the cog itself in a spot where there were no ramps.

Chainrings:
6sp - 2.07mm
8sp - 2.19mm
9/10sp (marked as such) - 2.14mm
11sp - 1.85mm

Freewheel/Cassette
6 and 7sp - 2.05mm
8sp - 1.97mm
10sp - 1.65mm
11sp - 1.65mm
Choke is offline  
Old 04-29-20, 04:12 PM
  #13  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,127
Mentioned: 480 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3788 Post(s)
Liked 6,572 Times in 2,580 Posts
I’ve used V-O 118mm cartridge BBS for TA Pro vis 5 doubles, and all seems to work fine.
nlerner is offline  
Likes For nlerner:
Old 04-29-20, 04:18 PM
  #14  
Senior Member
 
rjhammett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Saint Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 2,405

Bikes: 85 De Rosa, 92 Merckx MX Leader, 99 Tommasini Sintesi, 08 Look 585, 89 Merckx Corsa Extra, 72 Holdsworth Professional

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 362 Post(s)
Liked 549 Times in 241 Posts
118mm
rjhammett is offline  
Old 04-30-20, 02:19 AM
  #15  
Overdoing projects
 
JaccoW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Rotterdam, former republic of the Netherlands
Posts: 2,443

Bikes: Batavus Randonneur GL, Gazelle Orange Excellent, Gazelle Super Licht, Gazelle Grand Tourist, Gazelle Lausanne, Gazelle Tandem, Koga-Miyata SilverAce, Koga-Miyata WorldTraveller

Mentioned: 58 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 783 Post(s)
Liked 1,215 Times in 677 Posts
Originally Posted by Choke
I have a TA crank with their current production rings (30/46) and I am using a 9sp chain. It shifts like they were made for each other.
Same here. I use a vintage 52 and 42T ring and a modern 26T and they work perfectly fine with my 9-speed 11-34 cassette and chain with friction shifting.

The main advantage of using some of the modern rings like VO offers is that they are pinned and ramped, which works smoother when using indexed shifting.

EDIT: Modern cranks in 50.4mm BCD

Last edited by JaccoW; 04-30-20 at 02:35 AM.
JaccoW is offline  
Old 04-30-20, 11:31 AM
  #16  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 6,287

Bikes: 78 Masi Criterium, 68 PX10, 2016 Mercian King of Mercia, Rivendell Clem Smith Jr

Mentioned: 120 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2317 Post(s)
Liked 597 Times in 430 Posts
Originally Posted by Choke
I would think that even the older chainrings would have no problem with newer, narrower chains. All chains from 5sp to 11sp are the same width on the inside (3/32", 2.38mm) and only the outside distance changes. I use a 9sp chain on all my vintage bikes and they have worked fine over a variety of different parts. The only possible place that I could see a problem would be if the chain was narrower than the chainring spacing and would get caught in between, but that hasn't happened with the older cranks that I use....Campy, Zeus and TA.
Now that you point it out, you are right I think. Internal dimensions haven't changed. Should not on principle be a problem to use modern chains on new 'narrow' chainrings. I measured my 10/11 speed modern Sugino chainrings and they are 1.92 mm. I've got some old TA rings in my stash somewhere. I'll pull them out when I have time, but I assume they'll also be in the ballpark of 2.0mm.

FWIW I did have some trouble with a modern 7 speed chain getting stuck between chainrings on my vintage Stronglight 93 cranks. Not stuck as in jammed in, but every once in a while it would not quite make the shift and kind of ride in between. So modern chainrings with their pins etc and modern chains have obviously evolved together.

AFAIK and FWIW, an actual 5/6 speed width chain is no longer made by anyone. Modern 5/6/7/8 speed chains are the same width as the old Suntour 'Ultra' and Sedisport chains. Once upon a time those were considered narrow. From memory I think that width is 7.1mm. The old full width bushed chains were more like 7.4 I think, but I don't think I have one around to measure.
Salamandrine is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.