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What to replace a Sachs Maillard 7 speed freewheel with?

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What to replace a Sachs Maillard 7 speed freewheel with?

Old 05-04-20, 03:33 PM
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What to replace a Sachs Maillard 7 speed freewheel with?

Hi all, I'm looking to replace a tired freewheel on a vitus 787 with a Shimano 105 1050 rear derailleur.

The freewheel is a 7 speed Sachs Maillard. The issue I'm having is that I don't know enough about this stuff to confidently pick out a replacement. The velobase page for my derailleur says "They will easily handle a 32T rear sprocket with 48-38T chainrings."

Sadly I don't know enough to know what that means. Would a Sunrace 8 Speed Freewheel – 13/32T work as a replacement?

All help massively appreciated!
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Old 05-04-20, 04:08 PM
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How do you know your freewheel is so tired that it needs replacing? AND if your shifters are also 1050, 6 speed is what you want for indexed shifting. BUT, maybe you have been friction shifting?
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Old 05-04-20, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Funktopus View Post
Hi all, I'm looking to replace a tired freewheel on a vitus 787 with a Shimano 105 1050 rear derailleur.

The freewheel is a 7 speed Sachs Maillard. The issue I'm having is that I don't know enough about this stuff to confidently pick out a replacement. The velobase page for my derailleur says "They will easily handle a 32T rear sprocket with 48-38T chainrings."

Sadly I don't know enough to know what that means. Would a Sunrace 8 Speed Freewheel – 13/32T work as a replacement?

All help massively appreciated!
The Sachs freewheels with the funny little features on the ends ot the teeth (for the Sachs ARIS indexing system) are among the best and best shifting ever sold. There is a BF member, PastorBobinNH who runs www.freewheelspa.com, where he can guickly rebuild seemingly any freewheel - I know he has restored Sachs.

I haven't seen him around here for a while, but his site looks live.
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Old 05-04-20, 05:31 PM
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An 8-speed freewheel will probably be too wide for your hub and rear stay spacing. Plus the cog spacing between 8 and 7-speed, despite being close, may be enough to throw off your indexed shifting.

What is meant by 'tired'? As in the freewheel if filled with crap and needs a flush and relube? Or perhaps some of the cogs are worn and need individual replacement. Both situations can be fixed without resorting to a new freewheel.
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Old 05-04-20, 09:13 PM
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Need to know the shifter model number and if you're running indexed or friction.

What direction do you want to go from your present freewheel? Better shifting, different ratios? What size are the current largest and smallest cogs?

8s freewheel needs a longer axle that will flex/bend/break easier, and which will fatigue the frame's dropout faster, which could lead to failure.

The 1050 rear derailer might handle a 32t cog, but would require some more careful setup and likely a longer chain (what size cogs now?).
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Old 05-05-20, 02:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Classtime View Post
How do you know your freewheel is so tired that it needs replacing? AND if your shifters are also 1050, 6 speed is what you want for indexed shifting. BUT, maybe you have been friction shifting?
Google google google.
So so many questions you will be asking and getting answers to. Welcome to BF. The adventure begins.
Thanks - should have been more specific in my post (think I was in my original draft - I lost the post copy several times due to not being allowed to post links and images as a new member!). The reason I'm looking to replace it is because on the higher gears the brand new chain I put on last night slips under relatively little load. This happens with the top two gears at least, maybe with others - haven't been able to extensively test because my caliper situation is still seriously lacking and I can't go on a proper ride.

My shifters are SL-1050. Re indexed vs friction I'm not 100% sure - they're the little levers on the frame that I always thought were just for friction shifters. The front derailleur definitely seems to be friction, but the back derailleur clicks along as I tug it, so seems to be indexed.

And thanks for the welcome! Given how much work this bike looks like it's going to need I have a feeling I'll be spending a lot of time here
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Old 05-05-20, 02:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Road Fan View Post
The Sachs freewheels with the funny little features on the ends ot the teeth (for the Sachs ARIS indexing system) are among the best and best shifting ever sold. There is a BF member, PastorBobinNH who runs www.freewheelspa.com, where he can guickly rebuild seemingly any freewheel - I know he has restored Sachs.

I haven't seen him around here for a while, but his site looks live.
Thanks. Yeah, the research I've done suggests that this freewheel is the bee's knees when it's working. Maybe I should make more effort to stick with it. Unfortunately I can't go with Pastor Bob for now as he seems to be on sabbatical until July. I'm also based in the UK, so postage would cost a fair amount of time and money.

I have found a NOS replacement of the freewheel. Including postage from the states to the UK it comes in at £100, which is £30 more than I paid for the bike. But maybe it's worth it. There are cheaper models of Aris freewheels closer to home, but it might be worth sticking with the original build Vitus had in mind for a number of reasons.

I just wish I could get to know this bike a bit first before I invest in high-end parts for it. I rescued it from a guy who was letting it disintegrate in his shed. Everything on it was original - so the tyres, cables, cable housing, chain, brake pads etc were 30+ years old, and throughly dried up. The frame is in good condition, thankfully.
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Old 05-05-20, 02:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer View Post
An 8-speed freewheel will probably be too wide for your hub and rear stay spacing. Plus the cog spacing between 8 and 7-speed, despite being close, may be enough to throw off your indexed shifting.

What is meant by 'tired'? As in the freewheel if filled with crap and needs a flush and relube? Or perhaps some of the cogs are worn and need individual replacement. Both situations can be fixed without resorting to a new freewheel.
Thanks, yeah I think you're right. There doesn't look to be enough space for a wider freewheel.

Ideally I'd like to get replacement sprockets, but I just can't find them anywhere. I think my freewheel is an Aris LY99. DO you know anywhere to look other than eBay?

Edit - by tired I mean the chain slips on the higher gears under a light load.
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Old 05-05-20, 03:00 AM
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Originally Posted by dddd View Post
Need to know the shifter model number and if you're running indexed or friction.

What direction do you want to go from your present freewheel? Better shifting, different ratios? What size are the current largest and smallest cogs?

8s freewheel needs a longer axle that will flex/bend/break easier, and which will fatigue the frame's dropout faster, which could lead to failure.

The 1050 rear derailer might handle a 32t cog, but would require some more careful setup and likely a longer chain (what size cogs now?).
Thanks. The shifters are SL-1050. I think they're indexed on the rear derailleur. current cogs are 13-14-15-16-17-19-21T. Really I'd like to stick with as close to what I have now as possible I think, just without the chain slipping!
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Old 05-05-20, 05:52 AM
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You might look for a new old stock or used Shimano Dura Ace 7400 freewheel, 7-speed. It will have the correct spacing to index correctly with your shifter. The 13-21 range might be a bit easier to come by since the wider range ones seem to be in higher demand. “Boulder Bike” gets these quite often and seeks them at good prices. Supplies are random though and they sell out quickly.

BoulderBicycle.bike is the website, they only have a 13-21 Dura Ace freewheel right now. They sell for $64.

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Old 05-05-20, 06:56 AM
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So I've now found an affordable Aris 7 speed freewheel. It's a NOS Sachs-Maillard Freewheel Aris 7 Speed 13/19 BSC Vintage L'Eroica.

The tooth count is 13 14 15 16 17 18 19, slightly different from my current 13-14-15-16-17-19-21 but close enough to live with.

My one concern right now is that I don't know the threading on my existing freewheel. If it's French it won't fit with a BSC. I don't have the tools to determine this, and the seller's given me a time-sensitive offer.

Any ideas or gut feelings to guide me here? I've tried googling my LY99 and every one I can find online is English threaded. Doesn't mean no French threaded were ever made though... Mine is probably dated somewhere between '87 and '89.
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Old 05-05-20, 07:00 AM
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Welcome Funktopus, please post the specs of your new chain.
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Old 05-05-20, 07:10 AM
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Here's a Sachs 12-21 7sp freewheel on eBay UK:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sachs-7-S...4AAOSwMKFeW90Y

and a 13-21:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sachs-LY9...0AAOSwaTtdvqO0

(That one looks a little beat up.)

13-22 on ebay.fr:

https://www.ebay.fr/itm/Freewheel-Sa...sAAOSwKjha0KrZ

No need to search for a replacement on ebay.com. If you do need a new freewheel, I'm pretty sure you will be able to find a suitable replacement on ebay.co.uk, ebay.de or ebay.fr.
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Old 05-05-20, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by old's'cool View Post
Welcome Funktopus, please post the specs of your new chain.
Thanks for the welcome. Still can't post links to the forum due to being new, but this is the listing text:

6 / 7 / 8 SPEED CYCLE CHAIN 114 LINK
BIKE BICYCLE SHIMANO CAMPAGNOLO SRAM SEDI

Performance Triple-S bike chain for 6 / 7 / 8 speed MTB and road bikes
High quality replacement drivechain featuring hardened steel pins
Durable and strong inner and outer link plates
Suitable for all drivetrain systems including Campagnolo, Shimano and SRAM
1/2" x 3/32” pitch
114 links (chain may need shortening)
114 link length is long enough for all road bike drivetrains and the majority of MTB systems
Some MTB gear systems can require a 117 Link length, so please double check before ordering
Includes joining link
Triple-S chain - as used in world class bike sports

KEY FEATURES
1/2" x 3/32” chain link
For bikes using 6 / 7 / 8 gears
Suitable for road and MTB bikes
Hardened steel pins
114 Links
Triple-S performance
To be fair it is a bit low end. Think that might be the real issue?
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Old 05-05-20, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by smontanaro View Post
Here's a Sachs 12-21 7sp freewheel on eBay UK:


and a 13-21:


(That one looks a little beat up.)

13-22 on ebay.fr:


No need to search for a replacement on ebay.com. If you do need a new freewheel, I'm pretty sure you will be able to find a suitable replacement on ebay.co.uk, ebay.de or ebay.fr.
Thanks. I'm a bit worried about getting a used one though. They don't look in any better shape than the one I have on now - hard to tell visually whether there's an issue or not.

I've found a NOS in Italy - the issue is I've realised I don't know my threading requirements, which is a whole new way of reducing the available options
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Old 05-05-20, 07:23 AM
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Funktopus your shifters are 6 speed and the previous owner was less careful about replacing components than you are being. I think 1050 is 6 speed and 1051 is 7. ALSO don't toss your freewheel. The larger cogs can be reversed and you can get twice the useful life.

For now, consider a new sunrace freewheel. They are inexpensive and order from someplace that accepts returns if the threading is incorect.
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Old 05-05-20, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Funktopus View Post
I've found a NOS in Italy - the issue is I've realised I don't know my threading requirements, which is a whole new way of reducing the available options
Funktopus I have been led to believe that most, if not all, Sachs LY freewheels will be ISO threaded. I don't think they began producing the LY series until the late 80s or early 90s. (There are almost certainly ancestors which were produced earlier.) British and Italian threading are close enough that you can use either. It's only French you need to worry about, and it will clearly not even spin on your hub. On his freewheel page, Sheldon Brown writes:

All recent freewheels and threaded hubs, regardless of where made, use ISO threading. The older British and Italian standards use the same thread pitch but a very slightly different thread diameter, and are generally interchangeable.


You should be getting close to 10 posts, so will soon be able to post links and pictures. Having a visual of both your current freewheel and hub threading will be helpful to the people responding here.
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Old 05-05-20, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer View Post
An 8-speed freewheel will probably be too wide for your hub and rear stay spacing. Plus the cog spacing between 8 and 7-speed, despite being close, may be enough to throw off your indexed shifting.

What is meant by 'tired'? As in the freewheel if filled with crap and needs a flush and relube? Or perhaps some of the cogs are worn and need individual replacement. Both situations can be fixed without resorting to a new freewheel.
just curious, can you even get an eight speed freewheel, I always thought seven was stretching things a bit, and have converted my seven speeds to free-hubs.
Thanks, Tim
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Old 05-05-20, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Classtime View Post
Funktopus your shifters are 6 speed and the previous owner was less careful about replacing components than you are being. I think 1050 is 6 speed and 1051 is 7. ALSO don't toss your freewheel. The larger cogs can be reversed and you can get twice the useful life.

For now, consider a new sunrace freewheel. They are inexpensive and order from someplace that accepts returns if the threading is incorect.
Thanks. Yeah, velobase agrees with you. I'll have a look at some Sunrace hubs. Wondering which part the previous owner replaced - given the bike is French and the freewheel is French I'm thinking maybe the shifters, but the derailleurs are from the same groupset. There is a comment on Velobase about the rear derailleur being marketed as a 6 speed but actually being able to cope with 7 speed. Would Vitus have shipped an unorthdox setup like that?
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Old 05-05-20, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by smontanaro View Post
Funktopus I have been led to believe that most, if not all, Sachs LY freewheels will be ISO threaded. I don't think they began producing the LY series until the late 80s or early 90s. (There are almost certainly ancestors which were produced earlier.) British and Italian threading are close enough that you can use either. It's only French you need to worry about, and it will clearly not even spin on your hub. On his freewheel pag, Sheldon Brown writes:



You should be getting close to 10 posts, so will soon be able to post links and pictures. Having a visual of both your current freewheel and hub threading will be helpful to the people responding here.
This is my tenth post, so I should have finally proved myself human. Photos to come in post 11. Can't show the threading unfortunately, as I don't have the tool to get it off yet:
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Old 05-05-20, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Funktopus View Post
This is my tenth post, so I should have finally proved myself human. Photos to come in post 11. Can't show the threading unfortunately, as I don't have the tool to get it off yet:


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Old 05-05-20, 09:08 AM
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Shimano 105 Rear Derailleur & Aris FW

The 1987-89 Shimano 105 1050 rear derailleurs are some of my favorites for index shifting. The steel pulley cage adds a little weight but allows for smoother hard shifts to the larger sprockets under load like when climbing. They can easily handle a 32T rear sprocket. They can also work with 6-7-8 and even 9 speed setups, it's the levers that determine the capacity not the derailleur.

NOTE: the 1050 levers will ONLY index with 6 speed FWs or cassettes. They work fine in friction mode and that's why they've been working with your Sachs ARIS 7 speed FW. The 1051 levers that came out in 1989 were designed for 7 speed setups.

See my notes in this velobase.com listing on the 105 1050 RD:

VeloBase.com - Component: Shimano RD-1050, 105

Before changing anything on the freewheel, I'd check the derailleur pulleys first, especially the upper one.

Parallel side to side float in the upper pulley is what helps facilitate index shifting. It allows the upper pulley to self center on the freewheel sprockets without having to "trim" the lever adjustment after every shift.

The pulleys should remain parallel to the sprockets.The plastic pulleys wear out and can rock side to side at an angle. This will DEFINITELY cause shifting problems. If that is the case, replacing the pulleys may solve your problem.

I picked up this 1987 Centurion Iron Man back in 2007. It had been rode hard, put away wet and never maintained by some tri-dummy! Being a Luddite, this was my first indexing road bike (2007). It wouldn't shift right either indexing or friction. I messed with chains, freewheels, cables and levers. Finally realized that the problem was caused by worn out pulleys in the 105 RD. When I replaced them with new ones the problems went away.



Make sure to get 6, 7 or 8 speed pulleys that have the upper one marked "CENTERON" which indicates they're made for indexing. The top model pulleys had ceramic bushings and rubber seals. They may be harder to find.

BTW, Shimano introduced the 105 gruppo to "poison the well" and take over the mid-range bike market with features not found on any other components in that price range. A lot of bang for the buck!

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Old 05-05-20, 09:14 AM
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Have you removed the freewheel and checked to see if the hub is stamped with the thread specs?

I don’t what slips mean? Doesn’t stay on the largest cog? Drops to 6th?

It could be your shifter. Switch to friction, tighten sufficiently, and see if it stays in gear.

John
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Old 05-05-20, 09:14 AM
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Middle Chain Ring

Originally Posted by Funktopus View Post

The middle chain ring looks to be very worn while the FW looks like it's in good shape. Sachs used hard steel in their ARIS FW sprockets so they didn't wear out very often.

I'd check the pulleys per my previous message.

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Old 05-05-20, 09:21 AM
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Metric FWs long gone

Originally Posted by 70sSanO View Post
Have you removed the freewheel and checked to see if the hub is stamped with the thread specs?

I don’t what slips mean? Doesn’t stay on the largest cog? Drops to 6th?

It could be your shifter. Switch to friction, tighten sufficiently, and see if it stays in gear.

John
By the late 80's metric freewheels were long gone as manufacturers had switched to the ISO standard.

Here's a detailed description of Sachs ARIS freewheels on the defunct BikePro website:

Sachs Aris Bike Freewheel - the Buyer's Guide, 2015

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