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A little advice? Spokesperson needed . . .

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A little advice? Spokesperson needed . . .

Old 05-13-20, 08:38 AM
  #1  
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A little advice? Spokesperson needed . . .

Hi fellow Bike Forums members, might I ask for a little advice? I am going to attempt changing the rims on my lovely 1980 Fuji Gran Tourer SE to alloy. The spokes measure at 0.08" 2.0mm, which equates to #12 AWG and they appear to be 300mm long. I've never had to buy spokes before (lucky me) and am looking for the best, and stainless to boot . . . any advice on what and where?
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Old 05-13-20, 09:07 AM
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Spoke length is dependent on the hub, the rim and the lacing.

There are many online calculators:
https://www.google.com/search?newwin...sclient=psy-ab

This one is easy to use: https://leonard.io/edd/
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Old 05-13-20, 09:40 AM
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Many thanks! Any advice on what brand and who sells them? There are quite a few out there, and I'm not familiar with them . . .
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Old 05-13-20, 09:41 AM
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2mm equates to 14 gauge in bike spokes
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Old 05-13-20, 09:43 AM
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Hah! I'm learning already! I had looked it up in my Engineer's Reference but no mention of the different sizing for bikes.
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Old 05-13-20, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Albion View Post
Many thanks! Any advice on what brand and who sells them? There are quite a few out there, and I'm not familiar with them . . .
Are your current rims 27" or 700C ?

What will you be using the bike for?
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Old 05-13-20, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by branko_76 View Post
Are your current rims 27" or 700C ?

What will you be using the bike for?
Urban riding, pretty good streets and canal paths here in Phoenix - undemanding. I am using new 27" rims.
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Old 05-13-20, 09:59 AM
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Is there room to slide your brake pads down about 1/4" ?
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Old 05-13-20, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Albion View Post
Urban riding, pretty good streets and canal paths here in Phoenix - undemanding. I am using new 27" rims.
So you have the alloy rims already?

What hubs do you have?
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Old 05-13-20, 10:11 AM
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probably cheaper to buy wheelset https://www.velomine.com/index.php?m...roducts_id=739New Sun CR18 Polished Silver 27" clincher rims

36 Silver DT Champion 2.0 Spokes

Quando Sealed Cartridge Bearing Hubs - LOW FLANGE

Rims are drilled for Presta Valve

Rear wheel is 1073g (1138 w/the skewer), front wheel is 994g (1055 w/the skewer)

9mm Quick Release Front Hub

10mm Quick Release Rear Hub

100mm Spacing Front Fits Almost All Forks

126mm Rear Spacing for 5/6/7 speed freewheels.
Double walled 27" wheels

Velo Mine customer service phone 217.679.2356 - text 217.827.1173 - email ben@velomine.com
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Old 05-13-20, 12:28 PM
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Nice that you want to change the rims yourself.
1. I highly recommend that you download Roger Musson's Wheel building book.
2. And use the Leondard calculator mentioned above.
3. And in my experience, it is best to round up spoke lengths.
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Old 05-13-20, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Albion View Post
Many thanks! Any advice on what brand and who sells them? There are quite a few out there, and I'm not familiar with them . . .
I get spokes from Universal. Im a big fan of the DT brand, but Sapim and Wheelsmith are also excellent. Butted spokes with a thinner diameter over most of the length, such as DT Competition, actually result in a stronger wheel.

https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...p?category=779
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Old 05-13-20, 12:52 PM
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Although DB spokes make for a stronger wheel, I'm wondering if it makes much difference in the OP's case. The bike won't see competitive or extreme riding conditions and the spokes may or may not be tensioned properly when he's done.
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Old 05-13-20, 01:04 PM
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Yes, Sapim, Wheelsmith, and DT are the thre brands most often mentioned. Probably the most economical these days are the Sapim, but compare the exact item you're looking for. Be careful not to order straight pull or colored spokes, if you want j bend and silver.

In the last months I've bought spokes from prowheelbuilder.com, wheelbuildingparts.com (which has the least expensive straight gauge spokes), and treefort. Prices are pretty comparable, shipping costs are reasonable, and service for all is good. Used to buy from European sellers, but buying spokes from them has gotten strange in the last couple years, perhaps because of tariff issues.

If you're using all the same gauge spokes (2.0 mm), you can use any brand of nipples. DT 2.0 X 12mm nipples are available in boxes of 100 or bags of 500 and are as good a buy as any. Nashbar has them in the 100 box for a decent price with decent shipping costs. If you want exactly the number of nipples to match the spokes, probably get them with the spokes for convenience.

edit: Before you order spokes, make some measurements on your rims and hubs and use a spoke calculator to verify the length. Then do it again, very carefully. You have some room for error in spoke selection, but you want to make sure you buy spokes that will work. Having $50 of spokes you can't use is no fun

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Old 05-13-20, 01:39 PM
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Yep. If you have the rims already, measure like in Roger's book. Go DT spokes and matching nipples from Universal. If the difference in price between butted or straight guage spokes is insignificant to you, go double butted -- they are cooler. If you don't already have the rims, AND you are not invested heavily in the 27inch tire department, seriously consider going the 700c route for future interchangeability.
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Old 05-13-20, 02:08 PM
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Thank you all for the several comments! I have rims already (interestingly, mounted onto the fully-built wheels that Squirtdad recommended above, see the photo and his link is here: https://www.velomine.com/index.php?m...roducts_id=739). Makes spending $40 on spokes seem like a poor proposition compared with the whole lot for $139 which includes skewers. My only concern is that there is quite a noticeable seam on the rims and I have never had sealed cartridge bearings before - I wonder how long they would last?
The 1980 hubs are Sunshine as in the attached picture. I put new balls with Park grease after cleaning up the hubs and they run nicely.
I barely have 1/4" to drop the brake blocks, so 700c could be problematic.



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Old 05-13-20, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Albion View Post
the fully-built wheels that Squirtdad recommended above, see the photo and his link is here: https://www.velomine.com/index.php?m...roducts_id=739). Makes spending $40 on spokes seem like a poor proposition compared with the whole lot for $139 which includes skewers.
But they also charge $40 or so in shipping. Their hubs are modern looking wih externally cammed skewers. Blech! And aren't their spokes single gauge?

Spend the $40 on Sapim Race spokes from danscomp.com, use your own polished, overhauled, and vintage hubs, and build those wheels far, far better than velomine ever could.

My only concern is that there is quite a noticeable seam on the rims.
If it looks defective, send 'em back. I've had to do this once or twice before with Sun rims from a certain online shop that shall remain unnamed.

If it looks normal, but there is a slight ridge, you can sand it down.
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Old 05-13-20, 02:37 PM
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SurferRosa, this is exactly what I needed to hear . . .I'm gonna change those rims! Good to know on sanding the new ones, it seems mild (see below) but then I am an engineer and used to finding fault. Does it look bad? It's barely visible on the second rim.

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Old 05-13-20, 02:45 PM
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Albion - The key is the edge lined up without a step. The gap may even close a little when you lace it up to the proper tension. Typically the joint will have an insert to line them up to avoid butt welding and grinding. That rim looks very serviceable to me (also an engineer).

Alternative is to use clamps and a BFH!
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Old 05-13-20, 03:08 PM
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Many thanks! I'm long past the Amazon return window.
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Old 05-13-20, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Albion View Post
Thank you all for the several comments! I have rims already (interestingly, mounted onto the fully-built wheels that Squirtdad recommended above, see the photo and his link is here: https://www.velomine.com/index.php?m...roducts_id=739). Makes spending $40 on spokes seem like a poor proposition compared with the whole lot for $139 which includes skewers. My only concern is that there is quite a noticeable seam on the rims and I have never had sealed cartridge bearings before - I wonder how long they would last?
The 1980 hubs are Sunshine as in the attached picture. I put new balls with Park grease after cleaning up the hubs and they run nicely.
I barely have 1/4" to drop the brake blocks, so 700c could be problematic.



I've used Sun CR-18"s on every touring bike I built over the last 15 years. Built right, they last forever and seem to hold their true better than most. Just anecdotal opinion, but I am 275lbs and don't always ride with the kinda finesse that I should.
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Old 05-13-20, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa View Post
But they also charge $40 or so in shipping. Their hubs are modern looking wih externally cammed skewers. Blech! And aren't their spokes single gauge?

Spend the $40 on Sapim Race spokes from danscomp.com, use your own polished, overhauled, and vintage hubs, and build those wheels far, far better than velomine ever could.



If it looks defective, send 'em back. I've had to do this once or twice before with Sun rims from a certain online shop that shall remain unnamed.

If it looks normal, but there is a slight ridge, you can sand it down.
I agree with everything you said except the spoke recommendation. Butted spokes are superior but only in the hands of an experienced builder. The OP is building the wheels himself and he won't be using the bike for anything demanding, so the extra cost of butted spokes seems to be a waste of money.
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Old 05-13-20, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Albion View Post
Does it look bad?
I'm with SJX426 -- looks fairly normal. Those I returned looked much worse.
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Old 05-13-20, 03:51 PM
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Thanks so much - this is really encouraging. Now on to working out the spokes. One thing is for sure, they ain't the same as the current ones
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Old 05-13-20, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by branko_76 View Post
I agree with everything you said except the spoke recommendation. Butted spokes are superior but only in the hands of an experienced builder.
Agree to disagree. We're all novices on our first build. I'm glad I always used the same spokes for each of mine.
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