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Seller refuses to open box

Old 05-18-20, 05:16 PM
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The seller ratings don't mean jack because if you mark them down they mark you down and most people won't risk that if they can help it unless it is a big problem. Every time I've bought on ebay the person has been an idiot or scammer and every time they had good ratings, but sometimes there is no other way to get obscure hard to find things. But if it's a 20 dollar item I probably would not worry much, and probably also the reason he told you to buzz off it's just not worth much worry or effort
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Old 05-18-20, 05:29 PM
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I don't think Ebay could enforce anything even if the levers were missing, incorrect, incomplete or defective. After all, it's being sold as a factory sealed box, which is what the buyer is getting. It's as it left the factory and the warranty has long run out. The buying is taking his chances and won't know what he has, until he opens the box. It's almost the C&V version of Schrodinger's Cat.

As for the levers themselves, I recall them being a popular weight weenie item back in the day. So, I wouldn't be surprised to see the price climbs in the dying minutes.

Last edited by T-Mar; 05-18-20 at 05:33 PM.
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Old 05-18-20, 05:51 PM
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I'm hoping to get them.
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Originally Posted by making
Please dont outsmart the censor. That is a very expensive censor and every time one of you guys outsmart it it makes someone at the home office feel bad. We dont wanna do that. So dont cleverly disguise bad words.
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Old 05-18-20, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Kilroy1988
Yeah, there are plenty for sale in great condition out of the box already. Of course anyone can tear open a box of anything that they buy, whether it's a rare Star Wars toy or a rare derailleur - that's their prerogative. But that's one less still in the box - you can't put them back. So I'd suggest looking for a nice one that's already unboxed for use, yes!

-Gregory
I don't have any strong opinions about collecting, but I think it's an overreach for anyone to assume to know the "proper" destiny of an object that is outside of that object's original prescribed use.

This topic reminds me of Ai Weiwei's triptych of him dropping a priceless historical vase:
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Old 05-18-20, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Mar
I don't think Ebay could enforce anything even if the levers were missing, incorrect, incomplete or defective. After all, it's being sold as a factory sealed box, which is what the buyer is getting. It's as it left the factory and the warranty has long run out. The buying is taking his chances and won't know what he has, until he opens the box. It's almost the C&V version of Schrodinger's Cat.

As for the levers themselves, I recall them being a popular weight weenie item back in the day. So, I wouldn't be surprised to see the price climbs in the dying minutes.
Can we carbon date that glue?

I've bought items on E-Bay with the wrong boxes. Usually someone has upgraded, say from Chorus to Record, and put the old parts into the new box. Of course, with a description and photos of the part being sold, not the box being shipped.
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Old 05-18-20, 06:03 PM
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Dia-Compe SS-5 in Black

I've had these Dia-Compe SS-5 levers (Black) for many years. They have held up great, with no issues. They came with the rubberized lever "covers". I'm using them with a Suntour Rollercam in the back and Pedersen SE cantilever in the front - they work great with both types of brake.


Last edited by Bianchi84; 05-18-20 at 06:15 PM.
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Old 05-18-20, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Piff
I don't have any strong opinions about collecting, but I think it's an overreach for anyone to assume to know the "proper" destiny of an object that is outside of that object's original prescribed use.
I didn't say anything about knowing a proper destiny for anything, but you're welcome to assume that I think my opinion is the end-all. As a collector I appreciate the value assigned to rare products kept in original packaging and used to spend enough time dealing with like-minded individuals to know that the objects could easily be kept in that condition for some time and be appreciated as well as appreciate in value.

I have personally also opened a number of rare or vintage items to use them even though I knew they would depreciate, because I wanted to do so for whatever reason at that particular time. There's certainly no "right way" to handle such things.

-Gregory
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Old 05-18-20, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Oneder
The seller ratings don't mean jack because if you mark them down they mark you down and most people won't risk that if they can help it unless it is a big problem.
Actually that's against eBay policy and if someone gives you poor feedback after you've given them poor feedback concerning a disputed item, then eBay can easily delete that from your profile for you and probably give the other party a warning.

A buyer/seller can put a response to your feedback, though, with an argument against it, which will be visible on their own feedback profile. Whether it's true or not in the end, I don't think you can do much about that.
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Old 05-18-20, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Kilroy1988
Actually that's against eBay policy and if someone gives you poor feedback after you've given them poor feedback concerning a disputed item, then eBay can easily delete that from your profile for you and probably give the other party a warning.
In theory anyway but the ebay reps in the past told me don't bother giving bad feedback
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Old 05-18-20, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Kilroy1988
I didn't say anything about knowing a proper destiny for anything, but you're welcome to assume that I think my opinion is the end-all. As a collector I appreciate the value assigned to rare products kept in original packaging and used to spend enough time dealing with like-minded individuals to know that the objects could easily be kept in that condition for some time and be appreciated as well as appreciate in value.

I have personally also opened a number of rare or vintage items to use them even though I knew they would depreciate, because I wanted to do so for whatever reason at that particular time. There's certainly no "right way" to handle such things.

-Gregory
I don't want to split hairs, but you, uh, kinda did say it should stay sealed.

Originally Posted by Kilroy1988
If it were a first-generation Campagnolo Super Record RD in the sealed box, I wouldn't sell it to anyone I suspected of wanting to open the box. It should stay sealed.
​​​​​
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Old 05-18-20, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Siu Blue Wind
I'm hoping to get them.
Fight me, Siu

-Kurt
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Old 05-18-20, 07:20 PM
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I got bored reading this thread about a third of the way through. Welcome to ebay capitalism - buy it, dont buy it, its the seller's choice to open it, the buyer's choice to bid unseen.
I have no need for these levers, will never have a need for these levers, but I'm tempted to bid on them just because now I'm curious to know what's in the box.
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Old 05-18-20, 07:31 PM
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Have at it, Kurt. Someones gotta have them. I'm not picky.
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Originally Posted by making
Please dont outsmart the censor. That is a very expensive censor and every time one of you guys outsmart it it makes someone at the home office feel bad. We dont wanna do that. So dont cleverly disguise bad words.
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Old 05-18-20, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by CyclingFool95
I got bored reading this thread about a third of the way through. Welcome to ebay capitalism - buy it, dont buy it, its the seller's choice to open it, the buyer's choice to bid unseen.
I have no need for these levers, will never have a need for these levers, but I'm tempted to bid on them just because now I'm curious to know what's in the box.
My reason as well.

Everyone is saying it's a good deal, how can you lose?
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Originally Posted by making
Please dont outsmart the censor. That is a very expensive censor and every time one of you guys outsmart it it makes someone at the home office feel bad. We dont wanna do that. So dont cleverly disguise bad words.
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Old 05-18-20, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by CyclingFool95
now I'm curious to know what's in the box.
You had to remind me of this LSD trip.


-Kurt
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Old 05-18-20, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Piff
I don't want to split hairs, but you, uh, kinda did say it should stay sealed.​​​​​
Ha! That was my initial response to what I deemed a rather silly question, in fact. Somehow, it has devolved into my having to defend the notion of the packaging of collectible items having intrinsic value. My first post, which you quoted, was more or less sarcastic. I would also sell it to anyone who was willing to pay my price. They could turn around and chuck the whole thing in the garbage, for all I care.

You seem to think that I am taking myself rather seriously, which in turn makes me wonder how seriously you are taking all of this. I'm not taking any of it seriously. Just FYI. I'll also note that all of my previous replies were made on a phone when I was more or less unable to read the text I was quoting... So that may add to any confusion about my level of conviction.

-Gregory

Last edited by Kilroy1988; 05-18-20 at 07:48 PM.
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Old 05-18-20, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Bianchi84
I've had these Dia-Compe SS-5 levers (Black) for many years. They have held up great, with no issues.... - they work great with both types of brake.

...if only you had left them in the box. *sigh*
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Old 05-18-20, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by thinktubes
I usually block buyers with these types of requests - red flag.

Me too. It has return with the box now open written all over it. Original sealed box typically has higher value. Myself, I avoid NOS and original sealed box as I would rather pay LESS for a lightly used item. And I know as soon as I take it out of the box, it's used. Finally, I really prefer a vintage bike show its age.

To this comment: "I recently asked a seller of a frame to get me a head tube measurement. He said it was already packed for shipping so he couldn't do that. It deterred me from making the purchase. Different story entirely, but it's like CliffordK says above... Sellers can do things that make or lose them money. That frame is still not sold after being advertised for several months, though the price is not unreasonable. *Shrug*"

I can understand the seller's position as well. As a TR seller, to get my discount I have one day to ship. So on the harder to pack stuff, I sometimes pack it ahead of time. Since I do not have defined end dates (I sell buy it now), the auction can end at the worst time for me to pack. Since I preset a BIN price, I am not seeking additional "action" to drive up price. Instead, I tend to set a reasonable price and move on.

Its the beauty of eBay. Sellers can ask any price they want, and respond to questions any way they choose. Buyers can move on, ignore, or not buy from sellers where the response is not to their liking. Today I got asked for a discount on an item that I sell buy it now, FREE shipping, for a whopping $18. I've sold several at this price, sold one a couple of days ago. After fees, packing, and postage, I am netting about $11. Discount? Not going to happen.

Last edited by wrk101; 05-18-20 at 09:10 PM.
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Old 05-18-20, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Bianchi84
I've had these Dia-Compe SS-5 levers (Black) for many years. They have held up great, with no issues. They came with the rubberized lever "covers". I'm using them with a Suntour Rollercam in the back and Pedersen SE cantilever in the front - they work great with both types of brake.
How is this relevant to the discussion?
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Old 05-19-20, 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by wrk101
Today I got asked for a discount on an item that I sell buy it now, FREE shipping, for a whopping $18. I've sold several at this price, sold one a couple of days ago. After fees, packing, and postage, I am netting about $11. Discount? Not going to happen.
Iíll take a guess fees and postage are $3-$5 which would equate to 375%-550% markup on the item itself. The anti-Alists in my parts would want their pound of flesh!
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Old 05-19-20, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by mkeller234
SS-5 appears to be black... based on google images. Take that for what it's worth.
LeRoy Kelly was one of the best all time. Stifled the Packers.
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Old 05-19-20, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by wrk101
Sellers can ask any price they want, and respond to questions any way they choose. Buyers can move on, ignore, or not buy from sellers where the response is not to their liking. Today I got asked for a discount on an item that I sell buy it now, FREE shipping, for a whopping $18. I've sold several at this price, sold one a couple of days ago. After fees, packing, and postage, I am netting about $11. Discount? Not going to happen.
+1
Swap meet example:
Nice item, fairly priced as far as I was concerned. Clearly marked.
Couple comes by, very nice yoga pants, and he's smarter than everyone in the room..
Makes a low ball offer. Politely, "no thanks, I'm sticking to my price."
Counters with 3 reasons why his price is right. "no thanks, I'm sticking to my price."
Counters with a slightly higher offer. Eye roll from the yoga pants. "no thanks."
Next counter is an assumption referring to my ability to use, sell, find matches for the part .
Enough. "Why don't you go get a cup of coffee, on me, and I'll discuss it with her in private."
Off they went. A good exit strategy is important.

Yes, she glanced back. I doubt they'll last.

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Old 05-19-20, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by RobbieTunes
LeRoy Kelly was one of the best all time. Stifled the Packers.
Unfortunately, I am not old enough to remember a very competent Cleveland Browns team. I started following them in the mid 90s. The packers were my backup team when the Browns left. It seems like a lot of NE Ohio went that way.

It's all the suffering that let's you know I am a real fan.... right? It has to be worth something!
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Old 05-19-20, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by mkeller234
Unfortunately, I am not old enough to remember a very competent Cleveland Browns team. I started following them in the mid 90s. The packers were my backup team when the Browns left. It seems like a lot of NE Ohio went that way.

It's all the suffering that let's you know I am a real fan.... right? It has to be worth something!
Very tough team in Cleveland back then. Dirt field, plain uniforms, minimal face masks. No one wanted to play in Cleveland. Leroy Kelly was a bit overshadowed by Gayle Sayers to the west. Both were alike. Fast, tough, savvy, fluid, but no problem running over a tackler if necessary. The era when the teams and players matched up well with "The Voice" of the NFL.

There's a reason Rockne's is in Cleveland. Belongs there.
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Old 05-19-20, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Kilroy1988
Ever collected something as an investment? If not, then I understand why you don't understand. I've bought things in their original packaging and resold them a decade later for many times the price. The value of any collectible item is usually linked to it's scarcity, and it stands to reason that there are typically fewer of whatever left in the original packaging than not, hence value is added for that.
​If you think buying and selling things with a value attached to packaging means someone has "issues" then I can only suggest that you broaden your perspective a bit...-Gregory
Everybody understands why something in its original packaging, still factory sealed, is more valuable. We all understand the basic economics, as fueled by those people that somehow get more enjoyment out of not using something as designed and slightly torturing themselves.

But turning functional objects into untouchable and unusable "collectables" represents, in my opinion, something of a hangup. Not just for the reason mentioned above, but also because you are consciously increasing the price that other people will have to pay to use an item as intended. And yes, I am a capitalist, but I believe that speculating on certain items and in certain ways is morally questionable.

Originally Posted by wrk101
Its the beauty of eBay. Sellers can ask any price they want, and respond to questions any way they choose. Buyers can move on, ignore, or not buy from sellers where the response is not to their liking.
Well, not always the "beauty." As we all know, if an item is rare it isn't that easy to just move along when a seller is being uncooperative or unrealistic. The premise of efficient markets is predicated on intelligent actors...
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