Seller refuses to open box
05-20-20, 08:59 AM
#126
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Originally Posted by AlmostTrick
At first I didn't care, but now after 111 posts I wish somebody would open the box already.
05-20-20, 09:06 AM
#127
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Originally Posted by countalmaviva
plonz , thanks for your response. I believe that future readers of this thread may find it particularly helpful. Indeed, I had already moved on when I started this thread, which might not have been clear from my OP. Frank knows this from our interaction through eBay messaging.
I confess I gave the thread a click-baity title. I wanted to start a thread for posterity, since I'm sure this situation, which was new to me, would be familiar to some of the more experienced folks here. This forum attracts a lot of new fans of the bicycle looking for expert answers to questions. I decided to become a paying member because I perceived value in the advice I was getting for "free."
I think your post sums up what I'll personally consider in the future, and maybe other folks may find this discussion helpful. I also want to add something which others have noted: The auction includes "sealed" in the description. Asking the seller to open the box would require the seller to change the terms of the auction, which is a big thing to ask (setting aside the matter that it's not a big dollar auction). Most of you said it wasn't necessarily bad manners to ask the question, but nearly everyone here agrees that the seller can do as he pleases. It's his auction, after all. As I said in my original post, I knew that, but I'm glad to know that most of you wouldn't consider it improper to ask.
I thought bark_eater makes a great point about the experienced seller's perspective:
"The seller may be trying to make a small profit selling an item at fair market value. To do that he may well be considering the value of his own time and efficiently processing the items for sale. So the item you are interested may already be packed in a sealed mailing carton. So if you are asking him to undo work and change the condition of the item resulting in more work for him in repacking and having to revise the listing. Why don't you offer him $5 to open the box?"
Last ride 76 makes a similar point.
This helped answer something that originally baffled me. Knowing this was not a high-dollar item, I imagined that the "sealed box" aspect might not be as valuable as it would with top value vintage parts. So, I thought that the seller could actually gain by opening the box, rather than lose. You point out that he loses time: he has to open the box and shoot more photos. I'm sure a lot of busy eBay retailers have to streamline their process. Still, on this occasion, Frank took the time to respond to my question, which some of you say you would have ignored ( thinktubes and onyerleft , for example). I appreciate that he responded, so I decided to move on.
I want say, again, that I make no negative observations here about FTW! If you're reading this thread, Frank, I hope you're grinning.
I also decided to post about this because I thought it might be a lively discussion...I'm only an active member for about a year, but I'm already aware that we love to...uh...discuss.
Cheers,
Oliver H.
I confess I gave the thread a click-baity title. I wanted to start a thread for posterity, since I'm sure this situation, which was new to me, would be familiar to some of the more experienced folks here. This forum attracts a lot of new fans of the bicycle looking for expert answers to questions. I decided to become a paying member because I perceived value in the advice I was getting for "free."
I think your post sums up what I'll personally consider in the future, and maybe other folks may find this discussion helpful. I also want to add something which others have noted: The auction includes "sealed" in the description. Asking the seller to open the box would require the seller to change the terms of the auction, which is a big thing to ask (setting aside the matter that it's not a big dollar auction). Most of you said it wasn't necessarily bad manners to ask the question, but nearly everyone here agrees that the seller can do as he pleases. It's his auction, after all. As I said in my original post, I knew that, but I'm glad to know that most of you wouldn't consider it improper to ask.
I thought bark_eater makes a great point about the experienced seller's perspective:
"The seller may be trying to make a small profit selling an item at fair market value. To do that he may well be considering the value of his own time and efficiently processing the items for sale. So the item you are interested may already be packed in a sealed mailing carton. So if you are asking him to undo work and change the condition of the item resulting in more work for him in repacking and having to revise the listing. Why don't you offer him $5 to open the box?"
Last ride 76 makes a similar point.
This helped answer something that originally baffled me. Knowing this was not a high-dollar item, I imagined that the "sealed box" aspect might not be as valuable as it would with top value vintage parts. So, I thought that the seller could actually gain by opening the box, rather than lose. You point out that he loses time: he has to open the box and shoot more photos. I'm sure a lot of busy eBay retailers have to streamline their process. Still, on this occasion, Frank took the time to respond to my question, which some of you say you would have ignored ( thinktubes and onyerleft , for example). I appreciate that he responded, so I decided to move on.
I want say, again, that I make no negative observations here about FTW! If you're reading this thread, Frank, I hope you're grinning.
I also decided to post about this because I thought it might be a lively discussion...I'm only an active member for about a year, but I'm already aware that we love to...uh...discuss.
Cheers,
Oliver H.
From your original post: "Folks,
I'm hoping some of you with more vintage experience than I have can share some perspective here. I'm interested in this eBay auction:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/153935006219?"
What a waste of time you've caused a lot of people who have a true desire to help. That also smacks of the definition of an Internet Troll = someone who posts just to stir things up.
As others have said, the sealed box is part of the value of the object that's for sale.
Cheers
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05-20-20, 09:41 AM
#128
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Originally Posted by DeLoreanDMC81
What was in the box?! What's in the box?!
Originally Posted by Miele Man
Now you're saying that you didn't have any interest in those levers at the time you started this thread?
-Kurt
P.S.: There are silver SS-5 levers in the box.
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Last edited by cudak888; 05-20-20 at 06:14 PM.
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05-20-20, 11:10 AM
#129
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I unsubscribed because my inbox blew up. Coming back now after a few days. Whew!
Miele Man , I apologize if my post was unclear. You responded very helpfully to a previous post of mine about 8s bar-end shifters. I took your advice about 7 of 8 cogs, and it's working beautifully. Thank you.
Anyway, I tried to clarify my interest in the second half of my OP:
"Am I out of line for requesting a photo of the actual object? Does opening the box devalue the item?"
In other words, what do you veteran vintage sellers consider polite and appropriate buyer questions and what are the pros and cons of sealed boxes? Probably, I should have stated it exactly like that. Again, sorry. Unclear OP or no, everyone's responses certainly have answered my questions. Thank you!
I had no idea this thread would go on so long, but I guess it has at least 3 days and 1 hour of life left in it...
Regards,
Oliver H.
Originally Posted by Miele Man
WAIT! I your original post you stated you had an interest in getting those brake levers but wanted the seller to open the sealed box. Now you're saying that you didn't have any interest in those levers at the time you started this thread?
From your original post: "Folks,
I'm hoping some of you with more vintage experience than I have can share some perspective here. I'm interested in this eBay auction:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/153935006219?"
What a waste of time you've caused a lot of people who have a true desire to help. That also smacks of the definition of an Internet Troll = someone who posts just to stir things up.
As others have said, the sealed box is part of the value of the object that's for sale.
Cheers
From your original post: "Folks,
I'm hoping some of you with more vintage experience than I have can share some perspective here. I'm interested in this eBay auction:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/153935006219?"
What a waste of time you've caused a lot of people who have a true desire to help. That also smacks of the definition of an Internet Troll = someone who posts just to stir things up.
As others have said, the sealed box is part of the value of the object that's for sale.
Cheers
Anyway, I tried to clarify my interest in the second half of my OP:
"Am I out of line for requesting a photo of the actual object? Does opening the box devalue the item?"
In other words, what do you veteran vintage sellers consider polite and appropriate buyer questions and what are the pros and cons of sealed boxes? Probably, I should have stated it exactly like that. Again, sorry. Unclear OP or no, everyone's responses certainly have answered my questions. Thank you!
I had no idea this thread would go on so long, but I guess it has at least 3 days and 1 hour of life left in it...
Regards,
Oliver H.
05-20-20, 11:41 AM
#130
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Originally Posted by countalmaviva
I unsubscribed because my inbox blew up. Coming back now after a few days. Whew!
Miele Man , I apologize if my post was unclear. You responded very helpfully to a previous post of mine about 8s bar-end shifters. I took your advice about 7 of 8 cogs, and it's working beautifully. Thank you.
Anyway, I tried to clarify my interest in the second half of my OP:
"Am I out of line for requesting a photo of the actual object? Does opening the box devalue the item?"
In other words, what do you veteran vintage sellers consider polite and appropriate buyer questions and what are the pros and cons of sealed boxes? Probably, I should have stated it exactly like that. Again, sorry. Unclear OP or no, everyone's responses certainly have answered my questions. Thank you!
I had no idea this thread would go on so long, but I guess it has at least 3 days and 1 hour of life left in it...
Regards,
Oliver H.
Miele Man , I apologize if my post was unclear. You responded very helpfully to a previous post of mine about 8s bar-end shifters. I took your advice about 7 of 8 cogs, and it's working beautifully. Thank you.
Anyway, I tried to clarify my interest in the second half of my OP:
"Am I out of line for requesting a photo of the actual object? Does opening the box devalue the item?"
In other words, what do you veteran vintage sellers consider polite and appropriate buyer questions and what are the pros and cons of sealed boxes? Probably, I should have stated it exactly like that. Again, sorry. Unclear OP or no, everyone's responses certainly have answered my questions. Thank you!
I had no idea this thread would go on so long, but I guess it has at least 3 days and 1 hour of life left in it...
Regards,
Oliver H.
I'm glad that the 7 of 8 cogs is working out for you. I often do something similar when I want to increase my high gear teeth from 11 or 12 to 14. I'll use 7 of 9 cogs from a 9-speed cassette. Of course I also use a 9-speed chain with that setup.
Cheers
05-20-20, 01:17 PM
#131
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After reading through the thread, it reminds me of an old joke or prank. You're sitting around shooting the bull with your buddies when you tell them this story.
"Let me tell y'all what happened to me the other night.
I was headed west on rt.----- when I passed a dude thumbing a ride. I decided to help him out.
He gets in with a backpack and a small box. We get back on the road and I start making small talk.
He's clutching the box like it has something important in it. So, I ask him what's in the box.
He acts a little irritated and tells me, "It's none you your business."
Well, then, my interest increased and curiosity started to get the best of me. I asked him again, "Come on, whats in the box?" He gets angry and tells me not to ask again.
That's wasn't going to work. I decided to ask him again. "What's in the box? You gotta tell me."
He started screaming. He put the box on the floorboard between his legs and pulled out a knife! We starting fighting and the car was swerving all over the road. I managed to open the passenger door and kick him out with the box still on the floorboard."
At this point you say something like, "Man, I was lucky to get out of that situation. I could have been killed!" Then you abruptly end your story and wait for the talk to continue.
If you have told your story right, someone will ask, "What was in the box?"
To which you reply, "Nothing but a bunch of **** like I've been feeding you!"
BaaHaHaHa.
"Let me tell y'all what happened to me the other night.
I was headed west on rt.----- when I passed a dude thumbing a ride. I decided to help him out.
He gets in with a backpack and a small box. We get back on the road and I start making small talk.
He's clutching the box like it has something important in it. So, I ask him what's in the box.
He acts a little irritated and tells me, "It's none you your business."
Well, then, my interest increased and curiosity started to get the best of me. I asked him again, "Come on, whats in the box?" He gets angry and tells me not to ask again.
That's wasn't going to work. I decided to ask him again. "What's in the box? You gotta tell me."
He started screaming. He put the box on the floorboard between his legs and pulled out a knife! We starting fighting and the car was swerving all over the road. I managed to open the passenger door and kick him out with the box still on the floorboard."
At this point you say something like, "Man, I was lucky to get out of that situation. I could have been killed!" Then you abruptly end your story and wait for the talk to continue.
If you have told your story right, someone will ask, "What was in the box?"
To which you reply, "Nothing but a bunch of **** like I've been feeding you!"
BaaHaHaHa.
Last edited by cb400bill; 05-24-20 at 06:04 AM.
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05-20-20, 05:09 PM
#132
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Originally Posted by seypat
"Let me tell y'all what happened to me the other night.
I was headed west on rt.----- when I passed a dude thumbing a ride. I decided to help him out.
He gets in with a backpack and a small box. We get back on the road and I start making small talk.
He's clutching the box like it has something important in it. So, I ask him what's in the box.
He acts a little irritated and tells me, "It's none of your business."
Well, then, my interest increased and curiosity started to get the best of me. I asked him again, "Come on, whats in the box?" He gets angry and tells me not to ask again.
That's wasn't going to work. I decided to ask him again. "What's in the box? You gotta tell me."
He started screaming. He put the box on the floorboard between his legs and pulled out a knife! We starting fighting and the car was swerving all over the road. I managed to open the passenger door and kick him out with the box still on the floorboard."
At this point you say something like, "Man, I was lucky to get out of that situation. I could have been killed!" Then you abruptly end your story and wait for the talk to continue.
If you have told your story right, someone will ask, "What was in the box?"
To which you reply, "It's none of your business."
I was headed west on rt.----- when I passed a dude thumbing a ride. I decided to help him out.
He gets in with a backpack and a small box. We get back on the road and I start making small talk.
He's clutching the box like it has something important in it. So, I ask him what's in the box.
He acts a little irritated and tells me, "It's none of your business."
Well, then, my interest increased and curiosity started to get the best of me. I asked him again, "Come on, whats in the box?" He gets angry and tells me not to ask again.
That's wasn't going to work. I decided to ask him again. "What's in the box? You gotta tell me."
He started screaming. He put the box on the floorboard between his legs and pulled out a knife! We starting fighting and the car was swerving all over the road. I managed to open the passenger door and kick him out with the box still on the floorboard."
At this point you say something like, "Man, I was lucky to get out of that situation. I could have been killed!" Then you abruptly end your story and wait for the talk to continue.
If you have told your story right, someone will ask, "What was in the box?"
To which you reply, "It's none of your business."
Last edited by P!N20; 05-20-20 at 05:59 PM.
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05-20-20, 05:25 PM
#133
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IMHO IT'S A BOC 
Let's see if we can get this post to at least 200.
Best, Ben
Let's see if we can get this post to at least 200.
Best, Ben
05-20-20, 05:33 PM
#134
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Well, I haven't learned anything of particular use to me in this thread, but it has been the most entertaining one in a long while (since the last one featuring the guy with the Klein fetish), and a welcome distraction from all the current odd combination of boredom and strife! 
Now, WHAT THE HELL IS IN THE BOX!!
Now, WHAT THE HELL IS IN THE BOX!!
05-20-20, 05:42 PM
#135
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Originally Posted by xiaoman1
IMHO, IT'S A BOC
05-20-20, 05:50 PM
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"Why are we here?" inquired man.
"To find out what's in the Dia-Compe box."
-Kurt
P.S.: There are silver SS-5 levers in the box.
"To find out what's in the Dia-Compe box."
-Kurt
P.S.: There are silver SS-5 levers in the box.
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Last edited by cudak888; 05-20-20 at 06:13 PM.
05-20-20, 06:16 PM
#137
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Six pages and no mention of Grant Petersen. Until now.
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05-20-20, 07:04 PM
#138
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Originally Posted by noobinsf
Six pages and no mention of Grant Petersen. Until now.
Originally Posted by countalmaviva
Again, sorry. Unclear OP or no, everyone's responses certainly have answered my questions. Thank you!
-Kurt
P.S.: There are silver SS-5 levers in the box.
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Last edited by cudak888; 05-20-20 at 07:11 PM.
05-20-20, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa
Last edited by xiaoman1; 05-20-20 at 07:20 PM.
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05-20-20, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by old's'cool
Well, I haven't learned anything of particular use to me in this thread, but it has been the most entertaining one in a long while (since the last one featuring the guy with the Klein fetish), and a welcome distraction from all the current odd combination of boredom and strife!
DD
Last edited by Drillium Dude; 05-20-20 at 07:52 PM.
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05-20-20, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Drillium Dude
Could you provide a link to this "Klein fetish" thread to which you refer? It's raining here and I find myself in need of some entertainment
DD
DD
-Kurt
P.S.: There are silver SS-5 levers in the box.
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Last edited by cudak888; 05-20-20 at 10:45 PM.
05-20-20, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by countalmaviva
I requested that the seller post a photo of the levers, and they have refused. Am I out of line for requesting a photo of the actual object?
You can be darned sure I request a range of photos of different aspects, from different angles. A "picture's worth a thousand words," they say. No way to get around that.
I'm okay with a seller not wanting to go to the trouble. But unless it's a factory-boxed item (ie, a classic Mattel HotWheels toy in the original blister pack), it's hard to claim that taking proper photos of the item is going to cause some magical destruction in value.
For me: it get lots of pics and answers to all my questions, or I don't buy. But, that's me.
05-20-20, 10:17 PM
#143
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I looked at the auction pics - the box is sealed and it appears you would have to tear it open. Seller states "SEALED BOX" in his listing.
05-20-20, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Biketiger
I looked at the auction pics - the box is sealed and it appears you would have to tear it open. Seller states "SEALED BOX" in his listing.
But it's not as though the box is part of the value, beyond the NOS/NIB nature. Which photos can take care of, showing the fully-closed and -sealed box, showing it being opened, showing the item from different views. Particularly with an older item that people want to ensure is real and what they're looking for, preferring to not purchase sight-unseen.
It's a bike part, not the holy grail.
05-20-20, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Drillium Dude
Could you provide a link to this "Klein fetish" thread to which you refer? It's raining here and I find myself in need of some entertainment
DD
DD
Best, Ben
05-20-20, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by cudak888
Ditto. Missed this one, and I'm filled with curiosity now.
Ben
05-20-20, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by xiaoman1
see my response to DD. above...and you will be good to go.
Ben
Ben
-Kurt
P.S.: There are silver SS-5 levers in the box.
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05-20-20, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by xiaoman1
It's just a few taps away.....
Best, Ben
Best, Ben
DD
05-20-20, 10:59 PM
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I doubt this is the right Klein thread, but I found this during my search and it is full of some real gems...
Klein ????
Klein ????
05-20-20, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Kilroy1988
I doubt this is the right Klein thread, but I found this during my search and it is full of some real gems...
Klein ????
Klein ????
-Kurt
P.S.: There are silver SS-5 levers in the box.
__________________
