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Help to identify vintage road bicycle!!!

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Help to identify vintage road bicycle!!!

Old 05-27-20, 09:17 AM
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Zervou
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Help to identify vintage road bicycle!!!

Recently I found a vintage bicycle!!I tried to identify the frame maker but I couldnít.I think many parts are replaced and under the blue paint there is still small bits of gold colour seems to be the original. The is also a 4 digit serial number(4061)on top of the crank. Thank you for your help!!











Last edited by Zervou; 05-29-20 at 09:55 AM. Reason: Adding photos
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Old 05-27-20, 09:45 AM
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We need a sticky - something like "How to get help identifying a bike."

For the poster, and possibly such a sticky:

a) photos, drive side first (can't post? 1) get 9 more posts or 2) make a pdf of your jpg and attach that or 3) link elsewhere.)
b) serial number - look under the bottom bracket, top of the seat tube, both side of both rear dropouts - and anywhere else you see a number. Lugs often have 2-digit angles stamped, BB shells sometimes have two-digit frame size stamped. Angles might help a bit, size probably not much.
c) seat tube *inside and outside* diameter - measure the *tube* with a caliper if possible (multiple orientations if the tube is at all out-of-round. The number stamped on the seatpost may not be correct.
d) how you came by the bike and what you already know/suspect about it - including country/city/bike shop where it was originally bought, if you know that.
e) any other information not visible from photos - decals (any small print?), markings/type/brand on equipment...
f) PHOTOS, DRIVE SIDE FIRST.
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Old 05-27-20, 10:44 AM
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I donít have 10 posts and I canít upload links or photographs !!!
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Old 05-27-20, 11:35 AM
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The parts of the bicycle are from different manufacturers. Front derailleur sunrace the swifters are from huret ,cable drive for derailluers are simple and the crankset from solida
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Old 05-27-20, 03:04 PM
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Sounds like a French bike with a few replacement parts. Looking forward to the pictures!
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Old 05-28-20, 11:06 PM
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I have photos of every part. I took everything off Yesterday.There is some gold paint in the bottom bracket .Hope it will help !!
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Old 05-29-20, 06:35 AM
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Just keep the dialog going until you reach ten posts. We like "what is it?" Threads
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Old 05-29-20, 08:13 AM
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Pic Assist

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Old 05-29-20, 08:15 AM
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Old 05-29-20, 11:44 AM
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-----

Thanks very much for the pic assist.

Looks like she has had a rough life; could certainly use some rescuing...

Lug pattern is Prugnat 62/d.

Serial placement is one employed by Cilo of CH (do not wish to assert an ID).

Appears fork not original. Wonder which, if any, fittings are...

-----
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Old 05-29-20, 12:02 PM
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Thank you so much for the help !!! I ve been told that some in the past had a crash and the rear fork is a bit bent from the drive side maybe the front fork was damaged and replaced !!! They bought it second hand in 1981 the colour was red. It also had alloy wheels and tubular tyres but I donít know if they were fitted afterwards!!!
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Old 05-29-20, 12:53 PM
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The key parameters include the seat tube outer diameter (hard metric 28.0mm for French, 28.6 for most of the rest of the world), seat tube inner diameter (27.2mm with a 28.6 OD or 26.6 with a 28.0 is a good sign), BB shell width (not reliable, but 70mm tends to be Italian), BB threading (again unreliable, but 36x24 tends to be Italian). Serial number patterns sometimes help narrow down the field, as do lug geometries, as mentioned above.
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Old 05-29-20, 01:12 PM
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-----

what is the light grey object at the front of the bottom bracket shell?

cycle appears it may have been fitted with MAFAC brakes at one time

do you have a means of measuring the inside diameter of the seat tube?

do you know the thread of the bottom bracket shell?

bottom bracket assembly appears to have been made up of mixed bits yet crank arms are in perfect registration

here are images of Cilo serial numbers:








-----
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Old 05-30-20, 03:26 AM
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Seat tube outer 28,7 and inner 26,3.BB shell width 70 diameter 41,5 out 34,4 inside.Serial number is 4 digits placed weird.The welding on the BB i think is strange.





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Old 05-30-20, 07:44 AM
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-----

thank you for the additional information and photos

the combinaton of a 70mm shell with a three-dog fixed cup tells us we are in Italy

the cupset appears it may be OMG brand, spindle is from another maker which is why we saw all of those threads showing in assembled image, the A-8 marking is suggestive of Britain, does anyone recognize the _ASTMAN name?

pillar size suggests a quality plain gauge tubeset

---

frame bits -

bottom bracket shell appears to be Agrati item nr. 000.8507

dropouts are Agrati item nr. 000.8002

bridges are likely Agrati as well but do not have stock numbers for them

one maker who combined Prugnat 62/d lugs with some Agrati bits was Rizzato

however, serial placement is wrong for a Rizzato product

the uneveness of the marking makes one wonder if it may have been made post-manufacture, perhaps put in by a licensing agency for example

one check you could make is to remove the paint from the drive side of the seat tube about five or six cms below the seat lug. if cycle a Rizzato product a number will appear:





in serials of this pattern the first two characters indicate the year of manufacture


-----

Last edited by juvela; 05-30-20 at 08:01 AM. Reason: addition
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Old 05-30-20, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by juvela View Post
-----

...does anyone recognize the _ASTMAN name?...
-----
"Eastman" perhaps. They appear to be an Indian vendor of various bicycle parts including cottered bottom brackets.
Brent
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Old 05-30-20, 08:52 AM
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That weld on the BB... my old Eaton's Glider had the same mysterious bead that turned out to be brass brazed on. I took it off hoping someone had tried to conceal a serial number but nothing was under it not even a seam. I am super curious as to what that's about and now that I see the same on a completely different style of bike I am even more intrigued. Can anyone shed light on this?
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Old 05-30-20, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by obrentharris View Post
"Eastman" perhaps. They appear to be an Indian vendor of various bicycle parts including cottered bottom brackets.
Brent
Yes is Eastman sorry couldnít fit it in the photo!!!
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Old 05-30-20, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Kriscarr View Post
That weld on the BB... my old Eaton's Glider had the same mysterious bead that turned out to be brass brazed on. I took it off hoping someone had tried to conceal a serial number but nothing was under it not even a seam. I am super curious as to what that's about and now that I see the same on a completely different style of bike I am even more intrigued. Can anyone shed light on this?
thought the same thing that someone tried to hide a serial number
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Old 05-30-20, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by juvela View Post
-----

thank you for the additional information and photos

the combinaton of a 70mm shell with a three-dog fixed cup tells us we are in Italy

the cupset appears it may be OMG brand, spindle is from another maker which is why we saw all of those threads showing in assembled image, the A-8 marking is suggestive of Britain, does anyone recognize the _ASTMAN name?

pillar size suggests a quality plain gauge tubeset

---

frame bits -

bottom bracket shell appears to be Agrati item nr. 000.8507

dropouts are Agrati item nr. 000.8002

bridges are likely Agrati as well but do not have stock numbers for them

one maker who combined Prugnat 62/d lugs with some Agrati bits was Rizzato

however, serial placement is wrong for a Rizzato product

the uneveness of the marking makes one wonder if it may have been made post-manufacture, perhaps put in by a licensing agency for example

one check you could make is to remove the paint from the drive side of the seat tube about five or six cms below the seat lug. if cycle a Rizzato product a number will appear:





in serials of this pattern the first two characters indicate the year of manufacture


-----
I will remove the paint Monday morning ...but the paint is very thin I donít think there is an other serial number !!!
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Old 05-30-20, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by obrentharris View Post
"Eastman" perhaps. They appear to be an Indian vendor of various bicycle parts including cottered bottom brackets.
Brent
-----

thanks very much Brent!

an Indian origin fits right in with the Brit style model marking

the A-8 model may have been made for use with the 76mm shell. this would explain all of those exposed threads on the adjustable cup.

a new name for me

-----

Originally Posted by Kriscarr View Post
That weld on the BB... my old Eaton's Glider had the same mysterious bead that turned out to be brass brazed on. I took it off hoping someone had tried to conceal a serial number but nothing was under it not even a seam. I am super curious as to what that's about and now that I see the same on a completely different style of bike I am even more intrigued. Can anyone shed light on this?
-----

this web site is a wonderful resource for understanding how frame building bits are made and their technology history. there is a section specifically on bottom bracket shells of the pre-investment cast era. explore a bit...

https://fietssite.jouwweb.nl/13/13e

-----

Last edited by juvela; 05-30-20 at 01:00 PM. Reason: addition
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Old 05-30-20, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by juvela View Post
-----

thanks very much Brent!

an Indian origin fits right in with the Brit style model marking

a new name for me

-----



-----

this web site is a wonderful resource for understanding how frame building bits are made and their technology history. there is a section specifically on bottom bracket shells of the pre-investment cast era. explore a bit...

https://fietssite.jouwweb.nl/13/13e

-----
The BB from the inside is solid no sign of connecting metals. The welding seems meaningless
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Old 05-30-20, 10:53 AM
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I tend to doubt there's anything weird with the welding on the BB shell, this looks totally typical of a common welded BB shell. You might see no signs in the interior of the shell cause it's a tight thin line (obscured with threading and dirt) where the exterior was ground with a "V" groove and filled with very visible weld metal. No idea who made this frame (probable non-original fork) but juvela seems to be hot on the trail! If that runs cold then MauriceMoss would be the next best sleuth to take it on.
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Old 05-30-20, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by unworthy1 View Post
I tend to doubt there's anything weird with the welding on the BB shell, this looks totally typical of a common welded BB shell. You might see no signs in the interior of the shell cause it's a tight thin line (obscured with threading and dirt) where the exterior was ground with a "V" groove and filled with very visible weld metal. No idea who made this frame (probable non-original fork) but juvela seems to be hot on the trail! If that runs cold then MauriceMoss would be the next best sleuth to take it on.
while I can not speak for the OPs bike, I polished the brazed bead off of my BB and can assure you that there is no seam on mine. Seems very odd to me to go through the trouble of brazing that for no reason.
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Old 05-31-20, 08:56 AM
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I searched the Rizzato bikes canít find any much. Tomorrow I will strip the paint hope to find something new!!
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