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Help identify Motobecane (French market)

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Help identify Motobecane (French market)

Old 06-13-20, 01:36 AM
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Trevsears
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Help identify Motobecane (French market)

Hi,

If some of you Motobecane fans out there could give me any help in identifying this bike Iíd love to hear from you.

I am in deepest rural France in the Limousin, and while dropping off a load of junk from my barn at the junkyard/recycle centre I had a look at the 20+ bikes they had for resale, looking for a spare vintage clincher wheel.

Then I saw a Motobecane from maybe the 1970s and it had tubular tyres and excellent wheels so I guessed it was once a half-decent bike and bought it for 20 EUR without knowing anything about Motobecanes.

My girlfriend wasnít over the moon when I arrived back with more junk than I had just dropped off but it soon passed.

This is what I know:

Serial Number 83542 on left rear DO.

Reynolds 531 for 3 tubes (according to the decal)

Huret derailleur front

Huret derailleur rear (2477stamp, which I believe is week 24 of 1977).

Weinmann 999 vainqueur brakes (610 stamp).

Stronglight Competition crank

Super Champion Competition Arc En Ciel rear wheel (tubular)

Unidentified alu front wheel (tubular)

Pivo stem with Philippe Professionel handlebars

Fork stamped on both sides almost illegibly with ďSovexiaĒ

The bottom section of the forks and the rear sections of the chain-stay and seat-stay have no paint, only a thin covering of rust which when removed shows the steel and no trace of paint. Perhaps these were chromed once ?

I know most people on this forum with Motobecanes are US based and most discussions on Motobecanes are about the models made for that market but perhaps thereís someone out there who has an idea about this bike ?

Trev












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Old 06-13-20, 03:30 AM
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The rear mech is a replacement, and not correctly mounted. The original would have been bolted directly to the hole in the right rear dropout. The mech you have can be mounted that way - take the whole arrangement off, take the mech off the small steel plate and use the bolt hidden under the black plastic cover - it is supposed to thread into the hole in the frame. It may not, you have an old french frame and they had their share of alternative dimensional choices.

That is a *really* nice bicycle. I think it may not have been ridden much at all - the label on pin-jointed rims tends to break with use, along the joint line. The one you show hasn't.

Yes it was chrome on the front and back ends.

Pull the stem out and look for cracks. If there are none, and it has a slot for the expander, drill a hole the same size as the width of the slot, into the end of the slot to make it a round bottom, not sharp points (that's where a crack would start). Then you can put it back in.

You probably need a new chain. The old one may be rescue-able but it is a multi-stage process process. Chains are disposables.

You probably need new tyres. At that time they were either cotton or silk. Cotton would have perished by now.

That is a *really* nice bicycle.

Last edited by oneclick; 06-13-20 at 03:38 AM.
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Old 06-13-20, 03:35 AM
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p.s. put that rear brake cable on the top of the tube, it looks better that way.
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Old 06-13-20, 06:52 AM
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That was really nice in its day, great base to start, I would take pride in getting that back on the road .

For the rust try rubbing with foil and water or a WD 40 kind of thing. Heck I would wipe it, the whole bike, down with chainsaw oil, and hit the bb, seatpost and gooseneck with the WD.

Great pickup!
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Old 06-13-20, 07:19 AM
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Not top of the line; that Reynolds sticker indicates straight gauge tubing and not the full butted tubeset, but nice.
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Old 06-13-20, 09:56 AM
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-----

The frame, transfers and some of the fittings show it to be well earlier than the date mark from the Freres Huret rear mech. Would expect the cycle's Huret front mech to be model Allvit 600.




The machine's shift levers appear Huret model 1882 or variant thereof -




A very nice find. Are you able to read the marking on the barrel of the front hub? The skewer appears to be Campag. If hub Campag you shall be able to retrieve a date from the inner face of the axle locknuts as here -




Would expect something from the early 1960's. This would be a plausible date for the cycle.

Pedals appear they may be Lyotard model 45CA. Headset appears it may be Stronglight model P3.

Sovexia is a not often encountered brand of French frame tubing produced by the firm Souvignet. You may discover the marking on the steerer as well.




Yes, blades and stays were originally half chromed.

Lug pattern appears it may be the NERVEX 45/159 but without the usual triangular cutouts in the sides. Fork crown looks like it may be a Vagner DP+ but it is a bit difficult to see in the photos. Pump pegs NERVEX nr. 845 & nr. 846. Original frame pump would have been an AD HOC.

The bicycle's Verot Competition chainset is model nr. 55 and is likely mounted on the companion Competition model bottom bracket.

---

This is a very nice find. Please take good care of it. Suggest begin with a gentle de-rusting procedure.

-----

Last edited by juvela; 06-13-20 at 12:34 PM. Reason: addition
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Old 06-13-20, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by thumpism View Post
Not top of the line; that Reynolds sticker indicates straight gauge tubing and not the full butted tubeset, but nice.
-----

the tubing transfer reads "3 TUBES RENFORCES" which translates to three tubes butted.

blades and stays are from Sovexia.

all good stuff.

-----
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Old 06-13-20, 10:20 AM
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my restoration "trick" for rusted chrome socks on forks and stays is to sand away rust and peeling chrome
with emery cloth and continue sand the bare steel until it's smooth. then switch to chrome polish and polish
the steel until it shines. it won't be as shiny as chrome but can be pretty close. then spray with clear laquer
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Old 06-13-20, 11:00 AM
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Redeemable.

The fork may have been pushed back. It needs to be evaluated in a VAR fork jig.

The rear dropouts may be Huret, which is interesting as the mechanism is Huret with a claw and really curious attachment.
Tubulars, Good.
Rust frozen chain BAD.

I really like the building in the background.
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Old 06-13-20, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by steve sumner View Post
my restoration "trick" for rusted chrome socks on forks and stays is to sand away rust and peeling chrome
with emery cloth and continue sand the bare steel until it's smooth. then switch to chrome polish and polish
the steel until it shines. it won't be as shiny as chrome but can be pretty close. then spray with clear laquer
I avoid abrasives as much as possible when dealing with rust. You're not going to have as much metal left when the rust is gone, not a good idea to possibly take away more.

Much better to use one of the phosphoric acid solutions commercially available - or electrolytic de-rusting. Of course one of the other reasons to use this is to avoid work. Drop those bits in the bucket and come back tomorrow, they're done.
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Old 06-13-20, 12:01 PM
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Wow, so many replies and so fast ! Just got back from a hard day working outside and didnít expect to have a reply at all.
Thanks to all of you for the ton of information and encouraging remarks.
So far Iíve done nothing to the bicycle except to take off the wheels and the tyres and polish up the rims.
The tyres were indeed made of silk or cotton and although the rubber is not worn, there are quite a few loose threads and the base tape is not totally attached to the tyre everywhere (although the tyres hold 100psi no problem). The glue was long gone and the tyres came off easily.

Iíll have a look at the rear mech as suggested and also try to find a date on the hub nuts, and check out the stem too.

The suggestion for the rusted fork ends and stays seems good, clean and polish up the bare steel.

I wanted the bicycle to have a spare when we have people coming to visit, just to be able to cycle around the amazingly quiet roads we have here, so this seems perfect, and more interesting than buying a cheap new one.

When Iíve got it back in the road Iíll post some photos.

Cheers and thanks so much guys.
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Old 06-13-20, 01:08 PM
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I forgot at add that when I do the cleaning/polishing of the stays/forks a nice finishing touch
is to add a decal/sticker at the paint/"chrome" juncture. usually some world champion
stripes or place of origin flag colors. in this case red white and blue
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Old 06-13-20, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by oneclick View Post
I avoid abrasives as much as possible when dealing with rust. You're not going to have as much metal left when the rust is gone, not a good idea to possibly take away more.

Much better to use one of the phosphoric acid solutions commercially available - or electrolytic de-rusting. Of course one of the other reasons to use this is to avoid work. Drop those bits in the bucket and come back tomorrow, they're done.
Iíve also got a rusty 1969 Benelli 49 America moped sitting in the barn (this I got for free) waiting for me to clean up so I just ordered a load of rust remover to do that and the Motobecane.
Thanks for the tip.
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Old 06-13-20, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by steve sumner View Post
I forgot at add that when I do the cleaning/polishing of the stays/forks a nice finishing touch
is to add a decal/sticker at the paint/"chrome" juncture. usually some world champion
stripes or place of origin flag colors. in this case red white and blue
Good idea, was wondering how to mask the obvious join. If it doesnít look clean Iíll try your idea.
Cheers.
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Old 06-13-20, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Trevsears View Post
I’ve also got a rusty 1969 Benelli 49 America moped sitting in the barn (this I got for free) waiting for me to clean up so I just ordered a load of rust remover to do that and the Motobecane.
Thanks for the tip.
I did a complete Vespa frame with electrolytic derusting. Built a box out of ply and timber large enough to hold the frame, folded a sheet of 6-mil polythene CAREFULLY (so there'd be no leaks) into the box, filled it with a sodium-carbonate / water mix, put the frame in and plugged in the battery charger and walked away. Two days there and it was *clean*.
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Old 06-13-20, 01:37 PM
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" to cycle around the amazingly quiet roads we have here"

That's what that bike was meant for.
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Old 06-13-20, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by juvela View Post
-----

The frame, transfers and some of the fittings show it to be well earlier than the date mark from the Freres Huret rear mech. Would expect the cycle's Huret front mech to be model Allvit 600.




The machine's shift levers appear Huret model 1882 or variant thereof -




A very nice find. Are you able to read the marking on the barrel of the front hub? The skewer appears to be Campag. If hub Campag you shall be able to retrieve a date from the inner face of the axle locknuts as here -




Would expect something from the early 1960's. This would be a plausible date for the cycle.

Pedals appear they may be Lyotard model 45CA. Headset appears it may be Stronglight model P3.

Sovexia is a not often encountered brand of French frame tubing produced by the firm Souvignet. You may discover the marking on the steerer as well.




Yes, blades and stays were originally half chromed.

Lug pattern appears it may be the NERVEX 45/159 but without the usual triangular cutouts in the sides. Fork crown looks like it may be a Vagner DP+ but it is a bit difficult to see in the photos. Pump pegs NERVEX nr. 845 & nr. 846. Original frame pump would have been an AD HOC.

The bicycle's Verot Competition chainset is model nr. 55 and is likely mounted on the companion Competition model bottom bracket.

---

This is a very nice find. Please take good care of it. Suggest begin with a gentle de-rusting procedure.

-----
How you can tell so much from a few poor quality photos is amazing.
Pump pegs Nervex 845 & 846 😂. ....Iíve obviously posted to the right forum 👌

Itís great to get all this info and Iím looking forward to dismantling it and cleaning it up, and of course riding it around here.
The front mech is very rusty and has a slight bend in it but I saw what appeared to be an exact match on an old Motoconfort at the junkyard where I found this one so maybe I can get my hands on that as a replacement.

Iím especially pleased to hear about Sovexia making the forks, I wasnít sure if it was some text stamped by the owner because itís very hard to make out and when I googled Sovexia I couldnít get much info except that they used to make moped forks.

Anyway, once I get it fixed up itíll be used for short trips to the bakery in the village and occasional longer trips but itíll definitely get used and looked after.

Cheers and thx again.
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Old 06-13-20, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by oneclick View Post
I did a complete Vespa frame with electrolytic derusting. Built a box out of ply and timber large enough to hold the frame, folded a sheet of 6-mil polythene CAREFULLY (so there'd be no leaks) into the box, filled it with a sodium-carbonate / water mix, put the frame in and plugged in the battery charger and walked away. Two days there and it was *clean*.
Now that is a great idea !
I have quite a few parts of the Benelli to de-rust so that makes a lot of sense. Also bits of 1970s Alfa Romeo and Lancia Fulvia come to think of it.
Donít know why I didnít think of it myself (being an owner of old Italian cars) but then thatís one of the reasons for being on a forum I suppose 😂
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Old 06-13-20, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Trevsears View Post
Now that is a great idea !
I have quite a few parts of the Benelli to de-rust so that makes a lot of sense. Also bits of 1970s Alfa Romeo and Lancia Fulvia come to think of it.
Donít know why I didnít think of it myself (being an owner of old Italian cars) but then thatís one of the reasons for being on a forum I suppose 😂
This is a very common method to remove rust in the old car/tractor/machine/implement/tool world where the parts may be large and other chemical methods become expensive. Often a plastic swimming pool is used or a tank is built of wood and lined with plastic sheeting.

https://antique-engines.com/electrol.asp
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Old 06-13-20, 05:00 PM
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-----

coursing through some vintage MB literature produced some items which are close but not identical

this first illustration is a page from a domestic French market catalogue of October 1963. the models called Competition M.C.C. and Super Pro both exhibit similarities to your cycle. the Competitioin is listed as coming with "Brivio" hubs which would be FB while the Super Pro is fitted with Campag small flange three-piece hubs. Super Pro frame is nominally all Reynolds. Note how the stem/bar, brakes, Stronglight chainsets & headsets, Huret Allvit gears and Huret frame ends all line right up with your example.




this second illustration is a Motoconfort catalogue page of 1965 (Motobecane owned half dozen or so badges) -

the model Criterium C.C.O. lines up fairly closely with your cycle. in the picture one can see that frame exhibits same lugs, crown, pump pegs and paint scheme as your example. chainset and hubs differ.




-----
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Old 06-13-20, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Trevsears View Post
The front mech is very rusty and has a slight bend in it but I saw what appeared to be an exact match on an old Motoconfort at the junkyard where I found this one so maybe I can get my hands on that as a replacement.
That mech is steel. Bend it back, it'll be fine.

Rust you have to do enough to permit proper function; after that it's aesthetics.
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Old 06-14-20, 01:14 PM
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-----

Hello again Trevor,

note on lugs and transfers -

in an earlier message commented that lugs resembled the pattern NERVEX 45/159 but were not a match. subsequently it dawned in me that they are a proprietary Motobecane pattern which somewhat resembles the well known NERVEX Professional. this image shows them clearly from two angles:




this image illustrates the companion seat lug -




here is an image of a ca. 1965 MB showing its seat tube transfer; this is probably about what yours looked like prior to weathering -




here is the downtube transfer on the same machine -




this is a domestic French market Super Pro model frameset of ca. 1965.
note how its lugs, crown, seat stay treatment, ends, pump pegs and chrome are a match for your example -




-----
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Old 06-14-20, 03:58 PM
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This is a wonderful thread!
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Old 06-15-20, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
This is a very common method to remove rust in the old car/tractor/machine/implement/tool world where the parts may be large and other chemical methods become expensive. Often a plastic swimming pool is used or a tank is built of wood and lined with plastic sheeting.

https://antique-engines.com/electrol.asp
Thanks for the link, looks very interesting. When I get some free time Iíll definitely look into this.
looks like fun too.
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Old 06-15-20, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by juvela View Post
-----

Hello again Trevor,

note on lugs and transfers -

in an earlier message commented that lugs resembled the pattern NERVEX 45/159 but were not a match. subsequently it dawned in me that they are a proprietary Motobecane pattern which somewhat resembles the well known NERVEX Professional. this image shows them clearly from two angles:




this image illustrates the companion seat lug -




here is an image of a ca. 1965 MB showing its seat tube transfer; this is probably about what yours looked like prior to weathering -




here is the downtube transfer on the same machine -




this is a domestic French market Super Pro model frameset of ca. 1965.
note how its lugs, crown, seat stay treatment, ends, pump pegs and chrome are a match for your example -




-----
This is incredible, apart from the colour, that looks almost exactly like my bicycle 😀
Iíve been too busy to login today until now but when I saw the photos I went to do a comparison immediately and all those features match.
Wow, didnít expect it to be from the 60s.
Thanks so much again for taking the time to research this for me, I never expected to get such a response.
Way more than I hoped for.
I had been checking the 1970s catalogues and never saw a frame with chrome on the blades and both stays or similar lugs etc. Now I know why.
I was fooled by the date stamp on the rear mech, assuming it was original.

Still hard to believe the machine is maybe 55 years old.
When I get it back on the road Iíll post some pics.

What an awesome forum you guys have.

Cheers
Trev
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