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Aero steel frame : didn't know that existed. Any idea what is this one?

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Aero steel frame : didn't know that existed. Any idea what is this one?

Old 06-17-20, 05:01 AM
  #26  
T-Mar
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Originally Posted by Miele Man View Post
...I've heard that the AX series died out because Shimano perfected and introduced S.I.S.* and the AX stuff couldn't be adapted to index shifting....
I don't buy into the theory that Shimano killed their AX series in favour of SIS. The circumstantial evidence suggests the big issue was lack of market acceptance.

First, if we look at 600AX, it was discontinued at the end of the 1983 model year, being replace by New 600EX for the 1984 model year. New 600EX wasn't upgraded to SIS until the 1986 model year, leaving a 2 year gap between 600AX and SIS at that level. The story is similar with Adamas AX. It was discontinued at the end of the 1983 model year and there wasn't any SIS at this level until two years later, with Light Action. Both these AX groups were discontinued for a more traditional group, without SIS being available.

Furthermore, if we look at model lines of bicycle manufacturers, we see two different situations but both support a lack of customer interest in AX. Miyata offered their Aero-Miyata with Dura-Ace in 1982 and 1983 but it's absent from the 1984 catalogue, when Dura-Ace AX was still available. If Dura-Ace AX was selling well, why would they prematurely eliminate the Aero-Miyata.?

Conversely, some brands, such as Velo Sport, continued to catalogue Dura-Ace AX models in 1985, after it had been discontinued at the end of the 1984 model year. This put it into direct competition with SIS equipped New Dura-Ace. The only reason to allow this would be if they had been saddled with lots of unsold inventory. The standard practice to liquidate leftover bicycles is to heavily discount them, so that they are more attractive to the shops. Normally, this would dispose of the stock. However, in Velo Sport's case, it didn't and the Dura-Ace AX models were catalogued again in 1985. This suggests to me that Dura-Ace AX was such a poor seller that LBS weren't interested in acquiring surplus AX bicycles, even at bargain prices.

Even Shimano themselves knew that the AX series would have limited appeal. They continued to offer the EX series at the Dura-Ace and 600 levels, concurrently with AX. The pros largely dismissed AX. Except for specialty ITT and TTT use, you rarely saw AX on pro team bicycles.

There's no doubt that Shimano was patiently waiting for the expiration of SunTour's slant parallelogram patent, to take their shifting performance to the next level. However, that was no reason to redesign an entire group. They could simply have introduced AX SIS, with a redesigned rear derailleur and shift levers, something along the lines of a anodized version of 600 Ultegra, That would have been aesthetically complementary. However, with the advent of New Dura-Ace, gone were several major innovations from AX, such as the Direction-6 hubset, Para-Pull brakeset, Dyna Drive crankset, Dyna Drive pedals and even the scalloped headset. These were the high profile technologies that the pro cyclists, consumers and shops deemed undesirable. Personally, I can appreciate the benefits associated with most of them and was disappointed to see most of them disappear, as I'm sure many other AX users did. However, we were an insignificant minority, from a market perspective.

So, while there is one tiny piece of circumstantial evidence supporting the SIS theory, when we take a look at the whole picture, there is far more evidence supporting AX's demise due to market failure.

Last edited by T-Mar; 06-17-20 at 05:07 AM.
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Old 06-17-20, 06:01 AM
  #27  
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Aero steel is a bigger category than Japanese. Just off top of my head Basso, Rossin, Mercier, Ron Boi, made aero bikes. And then there was a long series of wretched frames made for American Olympic teams. Ron still gets honors for being first to hire a wind tunnel for testing bikes.
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Old 06-17-20, 06:38 AM
  #28  
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Didnt Raleigh also have an "aerospace" bike? White/yellow/blue IIRC.
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Old 06-17-20, 06:54 AM
  #29  
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I knew nothing about the history of these bikes and components. This thread was a nice learning experience. Thanks all!
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Old 06-17-20, 08:09 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
I don't buy into the theory that Shimano killed their AX series in favour of SIS. The circumstantial evidence suggests the big issue was lack of market acceptance.

First, if we look at 600AX, it was discontinued at the end of the 1983 model year, being replace by New 600EX for the 1984 model year. New 600EX wasn't upgraded to SIS until the 1986 model year, leaving a 2 year gap between 600AX and SIS at that level. The story is similar with Adamas AX. It was discontinued at the end of the 1983 model year and there wasn't any SIS at this level until two years later, with Light Action. Both these AX groups were discontinued for a more traditional group, without SIS being available.

Furthermore, if we look at model lines of bicycle manufacturers, we see two different situations but both support a lack of customer interest in AX. Miyata offered their Aero-Miyata with Dura-Ace in 1982 and 1983 but it's absent from the 1984 catalogue, when Dura-Ace AX was still available. If Dura-Ace AX was selling well, why would they prematurely eliminate the Aero-Miyata.?

Conversely, some brands, such as Velo Sport, continued to catalogue Dura-Ace AX models in 1985, after it had been discontinued at the end of the 1984 model year. This put it into direct competition with SIS equipped New Dura-Ace. The only reason to allow this would be if they had been saddled with lots of unsold inventory. The standard practice to liquidate leftover bicycles is to heavily discount them, so that they are more attractive to the shops. Normally, this would dispose of the stock. However, in Velo Sport's case, it didn't and the Dura-Ace AX models were catalogued again in 1985. This suggests to me that Dura-Ace AX was such a poor seller that LBS weren't interested in acquiring surplus AX bicycles, even at bargain prices.

Even Shimano themselves knew that the AX series would have limited appeal. They continued to offer the EX series at the Dura-Ace and 600 levels, concurrently with AX. The pros largely dismissed AX. Except for specialty ITT and TTT use, you rarely saw AX on pro team bicycles.

There's no doubt that Shimano was patiently waiting for the expiration of SunTour's slant parallelogram patent, to take their shifting performance to the next level. However, that was no reason to redesign an entire group. They could simply have introduced AX SIS, with a redesigned rear derailleur and shift levers, something along the lines of a anodized version of 600 Ultegra, That would have been aesthetically complementary. However, with the advent of New Dura-Ace, gone were several major innovations from AX, such as the Direction-6 hubset, Para-Pull brakeset, Dyna Drive crankset, Dyna Drive pedals and even the scalloped headset. These were the high profile technologies that the pro cyclists, consumers and shops deemed undesirable. Personally, I can appreciate the benefits associated with most of them and was disappointed to see most of them disappear, as I'm sure many other AX users did. However, we were an insignificant minority, from a market perspective.

So, while there is one tiny piece of circumstantial evidence supporting the SIS theory, when we take a look at the whole picture, there is far more evidence supporting AX's demise due to market failure.
Thanks for that response T-Mar.

Cheers
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Old 10-27-20, 02:11 AM
  #31  
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I have a Mercer Formule 1 in the wings for restoration that has full aero tubing (not lugged) even the head tube and seat tube are oval and the seat tube is a oval quill type.
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Old 10-27-20, 06:29 AM
  #32  
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I had a Japanese Araya Aero, which had oval steel tubes and a Dura Ace AX group. Huffy made an aero rube road bike with the botttm-end AX components, I saw these Huffys for sale at Fedmart and Gemco in Southern California (stores long since gone, most of the Fedco stores became Targets).

I’d love to find another aero steel frame, here in Japan the old Dura Ace AX components are easy to find.
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Old 10-27-20, 10:47 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by jbchybridrider View Post
I've had a few opportunities to get locally made Standish aero bikes but they weren't my size



There was also Gemini locally. Panasonic had them, Koga Myata, Shogun.Shogun
A LBS owner I knew at the time had one of those Shimano 600AX bikes. It was OK looking I thot but IMO what killed the things was the price. I was riding a Campy SR Grandis at the time and the Shimano seemed just WAY too expensive for what it was. His was the only one I ever saw.
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Old 10-27-20, 03:11 PM
  #34  
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Shimano Ax was a marketing failure but it set a trend. Campy reacted immediately with C-record. In my opinion got aero right!
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Old 10-27-20, 10:32 PM
  #35  
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I saw one of these at the BDS show when Colnago introduced them. It was finished in satin chrome and I've lusted for one since
Colnago Oval CX
***COLNAGO***OVAL***CX******CAMPAGNOLO***50TH***ANNIVERSARY***RECORD******YEAH!***COLNAGO***OVAL***C X******CAMPAGNOLO***50TH***ANNIVERSARY***RECORD******YEAH!***COLNAGO***OVAL***CX******CAMPAGNOLO***5 0TH***ANNIVERSARY***RECORD******YEAH!***COLNAGO***

judging from the stem and brake lever placement on this one I'd guess it's not been ridden often or far


Last edited by Steel Charlie; 10-27-20 at 10:37 PM. Reason: more
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Old 10-28-20, 09:11 AM
  #36  
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don't forget Gitane!
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Old 12-14-20, 05:21 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by 63rickert View Post
Aero steel is a bigger category than Japanese. Just off top of my head Basso, Rossin, Mercier, Ron Boi, made aero bikes. And then there was a long series of wretched frames made for American Olympic teams. Ron still gets honors for being first to hire a wind tunnel for testing bikes.
I was hoping to see pictures of Ron Boi's RAAM bikes here!
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Old 12-14-20, 03:50 PM
  #38  
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Reynolds 531 was used in aircraft BITD. According to their company history they stopped all bicycle tubing production in 1939 to provide tubing for Supermarine Spitfires. That's pretty aero. C&V too.
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Old 12-14-20, 04:03 PM
  #39  
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aero;

Colnago; https://www.ebay.com/itm/VERY-RARE-N...e/124097250563
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Old 12-20-20, 06:36 PM
  #40  
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$9000 for a bike : sounds like a deal
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Old 12-21-20, 07:19 AM
  #41  
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I really appreciate and enjoyed catching up on this thread. Changes in life, COVID-19, and other factors have kept me from fully participating in C&V most of this year.

As the owner of a Lotus Super Pro Aero this thread provides great information. Thanks to everyone for their contributions. : thumb:

Last edited by pastorbobnlnh; 12-21-20 at 08:50 AM.
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Old 12-27-20, 09:57 PM
  #42  
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There is a really nice 55 cm Tsunoda with super clean 600AX on Cyclo Retro on Facebook. I think it's in Greece for $1000.
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Old 12-27-20, 11:51 PM
  #43  
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The AX was never really a market win.
Shimano did continue on with the DynaDrive cranks and pedals and the freehub Dura Ace hubset sans offsetting spoke holes.
the headset in the Dura-Ace and 600 versions were good but one needed those special wrenches- the system did prevent rounding off of the nut flats.
interestingly dropped with the 7400 series headset.
the EX brakes are OK, I donít care for the pivot bolt assembly scheme, similar to Modolo.
there again, Shimano went traditional for the 7400.
aside from the SIS system, the 7400 set was a retrenchment to copy Campagnolo in many ways.
the AX, EX freehub could have been a winner had they bypassed uniglide and just went for 7 cogs- that extra cog that happened second year 7400 was a winner.
Shimano was running the risk of annual product obsolescence.
then came integrated shift and brake levers...
aside from pedals where everyone had to buy in to Look for a while, Shimano was the new king.
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Old 01-03-21, 08:55 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by repechage View Post
The AX was never really a market win.
Shimano did continue on with the DynaDrive cranks and pedals and the freehub Dura Ace hubset sans offsetting spoke holes.
the headset in the Dura-Ace and 600 versions were good but one needed those special wrenches- the system did prevent rounding off of the nut flats.
interestingly dropped with the 7400 series headset.
the EX brakes are OK, I donít care for the pivot bolt assembly scheme, similar to Modolo.
there again, Shimano went traditional for the 7400.
aside from the SIS system, the 7400 set was a retrenchment to copy Campagnolo in many ways.
the AX, EX freehub could have been a winner had they bypassed uniglide and just went for 7 cogs- that extra cog that happened second year 7400 was a winner.
Shimano was running the risk of annual product obsolescence.
then came integrated shift and brake levers...
aside from pedals where everyone had to buy in to Look for a while, Shimano was the new king.
I really like my Shimano Dura Ace AX groupset in form and function. I even like the brake calipers and braking. It's on a Columbus SL frameset.

Btw, the braze-on front derailleur for 600 AX or Dura Ace AX required a special braze-on cable guide that routed the cable from behind the seatpost to the derailleur.


The one for the aero seattube was a different shape.

Cheers
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Old 01-06-21, 05:44 PM
  #45  
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6 months after starting this thread, i have acquired my second aero frame !

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Old 01-07-21, 01:54 PM
  #46  
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in France motobecane made bicycles aero acier


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Old 01-07-21, 05:16 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
The Super Aero was top of the line in 1982, 3rd in 1983 and 4th in 1984. It was not manufactured in 1981 or 1985, despite 600AX being available those years. The only year for which I have a price is 1983 - $599,95 CDN.

Components were consistent across all the three years. The only mentioned components which are not 600AX were the SR Custom handlebar, Kashimax Aero saddle, Araya Aero rims and Sedisport chain. It appears to have the full 600AX group consisting of stem, headset, brakeset, hubset, crankset, pedals, derailleurs, shift levers, seat post and even the water bottle, though the stem, headset and seat post are not mentioned in the specifications.
Some really cool history (and pics!) here. The aforementioned model is for sale here, it looks: 23" 1981 Aero 600AX Velosport $600
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Old 01-08-21, 05:33 AM
  #48  
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Raleigh built the Quasar and Pulsar back in the 1980s, with oval tubing. A clubmate bought one of them that was built from 501 - I can't remember which model but I can remember that the back end flexed quite noticeably when sprinting or climbing out of the saddle.

EDIT - it must have been the Quasar that he had; I looked for a catalogue and found this one - https://www.bulgier.net/pics/bike/Cat...4/ral84_07.jpg

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Old 09-19-21, 01:05 PM
  #49  
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Good day, I've been corresponding with a gentleman who has a Velosport Super Aero and from the pictures it looks like it is in great condition. He has no clue what he has and I am wondering what a reasonable offer for this bike would be?
Thanks in advance for any responses!
Gordon P
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Old 09-19-21, 02:12 PM
  #50  
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As far as I know, Merz built the first Aero frame for a factory Shimano bike at the New York show 82 or 83.

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid...000.1456936365.

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid...000.1456936365.

https://scontent.fhio2-2.fna.fbcdn.n...d5&oe=616EECE0

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