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Thoughts about a Grandis please

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Thoughts about a Grandis please

Old 06-15-20, 06:07 AM
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daviddavieboy 
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Thoughts about a Grandis please

I bought this Grandis years ago for the SR parts on another build I was doing at the time and just put the frame away. Now with nothing to do I dug it out and had a closer look. It has been repainted sometime in the past. The lugs are uneven from when they were made/filed and there is a dent in the chainstay from where (I assume) someone made room for an ill fitting crank. I can fix everything else but the off center lugs look like crap (especially the head tube) The Person I bought it from said it was a super leggera but now I doubt that as there are fender tabs and the fork crown has the same shape as the lugs cut in it. My best guess is that it is a 77 but the model is unknown.















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Old 06-15-20, 07:03 AM
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It's definitely a repaint as it has the remnants of a Columbus Riverniciato decal. Personally, I'm thinking this is earlier, circa 1970-1974, as based on reports of original owner bicycles, Grandis had migrated tot the 'G' cutout on the lugs and fork crown by 1975. Prior to that it was not uncommon to still have eyelets on the dropouts, as fenders would installed for wet weather training.

I wouldn't worry a lot about the model. Based on the workmanship, it's a high grade frame. It's a tall frame, so I'd expect Columbus SP. Prior to 1978, Columbus didn't have anything lower than SL/SP and Italian mid-range models tended to use Falck or other tubesets. Consequently, I'd just ensure that it uses the 27.0mm seat post typical of SP and that it has a Columbus steerer tube with the five helical ridges or dove logo.

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Old 06-15-20, 04:35 PM
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the lower tip of the seat cluster lug has been tapered which is an unexpected nice touch
but the brake bridge reinforcements look to be upside down
the right chainstay crimp looks to have been modified with a hammer!
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Old 06-15-20, 04:39 PM
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the lower tip of the seat cluster lug has been tapered which is an unexpected nice touch
but the brake bridge reinforcements look to be upside down
the right chainstay crimp looks like it was modified with a hammer!
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Old 06-15-20, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
It's definitely a repaint as it has the remnants of a Columbus Riverniciato decal. Personally, I'm thinking this is earlier, circa 1970-1974, as based on reports of original owner bicycles, Grandis had migrated tot the 'G' cutout on the lugs and fork crown by 1975. Prior to that it was not uncommon to still have eyelets on the dropouts, as fenders would installed for wet weather training.

I wouldn't worry a lot about the model. Based on the workmanship, it's a high grade frame. It's a tall frame, so I'd expect Columbus SP. Prior to 1978, Columbus didn't have anything lower than SL/SP and Italian mid-range models tended to use Falck or other tubesets. Consequently, I'd just ensure that it uses the 27.0mm seat post typical of SP and that it has a Columbus steerer tube with the five helical ridges or dove logo.
Mine is a 1973 and pretty much identical except that it does have the "G" on the head tube lugs. I have to say that the workmanship on yours look a bit rougher than I've seen on other Gandis bikes. Below is the reply I got from the current Grandis factory.
Dear Peter,

Very nice masterpiece ! That models was manufactured between 1969-1974, so 1973 is correct.
Can we share your pics through social?
Thank you for your appreciation

Best regards from all the Grandis family
Alessandro Grandis

Grandis s.n.c.
via strada della giara, 11
37142 Verona (VR)
-ITALY-
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Old 06-15-20, 05:51 PM
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Agreed, I don't think it's a Superleggera, I had one from this period and it lacked the eyelets.
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Old 06-15-20, 06:28 PM
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I love mine!



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Old 06-15-20, 08:12 PM
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I have one too.
the big silver frame I would have set at 1973
needs a proper Campagnolo headset.
it is probably the best bike in the room.
could use a proper repaint.
then return those Campagnolo components to it....
such a hard life these great frames lead... bought for the parts...

btw, wonder where Mario Confente picked up that seat stay cap detail that he applied to ONE Masi at the Carlsbad facility?
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Old 06-18-20, 02:05 AM
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Originally Posted by repechage View Post
such a hard life these great frames lead...
Great frame ? Hardly. After stripping and seeing sloppy brazing with much filing and crooked lugs, along with poor chrome and the dent I will just scrap this. I wonder if they were training someone new in the shop and they assembled it?
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Old 06-18-20, 11:47 AM
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don't scrap or throw it away. Please give it away
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Old 06-18-20, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by daviddavieboy View Post
Great frame ? Hardly. After stripping and seeing sloppy brazing with much filing and crooked lugs, along with poor chrome and the dent I will just scrap this. I wonder if they were training someone new in the shop and they assembled it?
I think you are expecting the precision of the investment cast lug era.
This is not of that time.
The parts, bottom, bracket, fork crown, lugs were very crude as delivered. Everything here was probably hand cut. Maybe a drill press to start.
The headlug shape is not what I would have done, but is the shape of the Brand at that era.
Fair enough that it is not to your taste. It is not junk.
If you have tried to build a frame from parts of this period, the amount of effort would astound you.
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Old 06-19-20, 04:22 AM
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Originally Posted by repechage View Post
The headlug shape is not what I would have done, but is the shape of the Brand at that era.
Fair enough that it is not to your taste. It is not junk.
If you have tried to build a frame from parts of this period, the amount of effort would astound you.
Please do not put words in my mouth and I apologize if I gave the wrong impression. By "scrap" I am meaning I will probably not rebuild but possibly pass it on. Also, being presumptuous does nothing to further ones opinion. While true I have never built a frame during this time I have replaced damaged tubes and straightened frames / forks. I find it hard to believe that the crooked upper head lug is "the shape of the brand at that era" but after looking at others close up over the last couple days I believe you are correct at least on a Grandis.
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Old 06-19-20, 05:25 AM
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Sometimes I think the Italians were so full of themselves when it came to frame building, that they were totally oblivious to Quality Control. One frame could be meticulous and the next could look like a dog's breakfast. I can appreciate this, up to the early 1970s, but once the Japanese arrived and raised the bar, many of the Italian builders still seemed to turn a blind eye. In the 1980s, some USA importers even turned to performing their own alignment, prep and finishing operations, in order to give the consumer what was being expected for a high grade bicycle.
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Old 06-19-20, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by daviddavieboy View Post
Please do not put words in my mouth and I apologize if I gave the wrong impression. By "scrap" I am meaning I will probably not rebuild but possibly pass it on. Also, being presumptuous does nothing to further ones opinion. While true I have never built a frame during this time I have replaced damaged tubes and straightened frames / forks. I find it hard to believe that the crooked upper head lug is "the shape of the brand at that era" but after looking at others close up over the last couple days I believe you are correct at least on a Grandis.
to me Scrap Is walk it to the dumpster.
Grandis did have variable effort.
no idea in the story behind that, in about 1975 they made a big splash at the Anaheim trade show. This frame looks before that, after I could see a strain to get product out the door.

T-Mar is correct that visible construction quality was notched up by the Japanese. Then the uniformity of investment cast fittings changed things a bit more, an adjustment as those lugs were often not filed thin as it previous eras, but hand work is variable.
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