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1983 Specialized Expedition Build! - 62cm CTC (63.5cm CTT)

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1983 Specialized Expedition Build! - 62cm CTC (63.5cm CTT)

Old 06-24-20, 03:45 PM
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1983 Specialized Expedition Build! - 62cm CTC (63.5cm CTT)

Well, ladies and gentlemen, it is yet another build thread. Nothing like a good friend ( @ctak ) helping you go back on your own N-1 (including components) pledge. I was doing so well!

Alas, here I am with another bunch of fastened steel tubes and assorted aluminum bits hanging off of them. What to do but do a parts-bin build and see how it rides? If I am not enamored, I can build and sell it for what I have into it. If I am, well, there would be some things I'd need to do to get it to modern flagship tourer status. Well, ok, really only one thing: take it to @gugie and have him sort the way-too-narrow fork canti brake post spacing. And then of course have the tired paint powder coated or repainted.

I'll skip to the obvious conclusion here: I'm keeping it.

Basic stats:

Frame size: 62cm CTC (63.5cm CTT)
Top tube: 59.5cm
Head tube angle: 73.3°
Seat tube angle: 73.3°
BB drop: 70mm
Weight: 3555g for frame, fork, and headset together
Chain stay length: 450mm
Fork rake: 51mm
Trail @ 30-32mm tire diamter: 52mm
Wheel size designed for: 700C
Seat post diameter: 26.8mm

Bottle cage braze-ons: 3 pairs!
Down tube shifter braze-ons: none
Mid-fork rack mounts: yes!
Front and rear fender/rack eyelets: yes
Rear dropout style: vertical!
Wiring for dynamo: yes

Photo as found, with wacky wheels (700C front and 27" rear) from the seller. Hubs are presumably original. Seller didn't do the wheel stuff--sold it as it was too large for him. I call this V0.7. 175mm Sugino AT crank with a 48/44/28T gearing (48T ring was mounted backwards ), Shimano Light Action RD, Suntour Mountech FD, original seat post and headset, Suntour Symmetric shifters, Nitto 25.4mm stem and some bars.

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Old 06-24-20, 04:16 PM
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For the first test ride (three or so weeks ago), I swapped bar and stem for a 105mm Specialized 26.0 clamp stem and 41cm Nitto Noodles I had on hand. I run 42cm bars, so these were narrower, but what I had on hand. I had been meaning to get back into using Noodles as they are really comfortable, and pretty. The scratched up original seat post got a very un-touring-like Prologo Scratch Pro that didn't match. Long-running Fizik bar tape wrapped the bars after I put my lovely NOS Dura-Ace 7402 brake levers on. I gave the semi-original wheels to a friend and replaced them with a "close enough to match" free "wheelset" I got from the bottom of the apartment building stairwell: 6500 Ultegra hub laced to a Mavic Open Pro Black (32 hole) for the rear, and a Joytech hub laced to an unknown rim for the front. I had completely overhauled and trued these wheels, then mounted my bought-for-cheap Grand Bois Cypress 30mm tires. A Campagnolo Potenza 11-speed chain used previously on my P15 Paramount would be long enough to run the 13-28T + 48/44/28T system over a 450mm chain stay length. The brake pads were adjusted and cables hooked up.

The result of this very hodgepodge build was nothing short of surprising and sublime. This bike is fast. And comfortable! But man, it's really rapid. Airy, breezy, easy kind of speed and demeanor. Out of the saddle? Eager and enthusiastic, just shy of my all-out race-geometry bikes. What is this thing??? Turning? Perfect. Here I am in the middle of battling my Paramount's new TB14 wheel build and spoke replacement--the Paramount, an always strong frame made even stronger (and perhaps a tad harsh) with the addition of the TB14s--and along comes this cobbled-together semi-tired paint Expedition with worn and abandoned parts, regular spokes, and some (thankfully) decent tires (tires that couldn't quell the TB14 impact characteristics when mounted) and just blows me away.

I didn't know what to expect, but it came for all my bikes and planted some pretty heretical thoughts inside my head. It spared the Davidson, but gave no quarter to the Allez SE (as currently set up), the Prologue, and even my Paramount. Really? Yeah, don't ask. It was so good, that for wheels, I want to exactly replicate them as they are now on a spare family bike (their original intent, but just used for this test ride). TB14s and Vuelta Corsa Lite rims share an unfortunate "bluntness" in their impact transmission characteristics. With the wrong tires, they could be considered harsh. With nice/supple tires, they are manageable, if not mostly normal. Both are dead solid at speed and through turns, and the polished TB14 is simply beautiful. But for the Expedition? Not a chance. Mavic Open Pro Black rims all the way, 30-32mm tires max for lower weight and ideal/same handling as what I felt. My years of switching wheels and tires for bikes has led me to the conclusion that every bike has "its wheels" and "its tires." I finally got it right on the Davidson, and the Expedition was dumb luck. Best to go back for seconds.

Enough blathering. Time for more pictures of a much better sorted bike. The dramatic evening lighting hides the mottled paint and roughed-up decals, but that grey metallic is lovely, especially against the black, tan, and silver. I really dig the proportions, something I didn't expect to say about a long wheelbase bike, but here I am, and they're spot on. Gorgeous bike!



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Old 06-24-20, 04:32 PM
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If the above was V1.0, then the below is V1.3 with a re-tuned RD, Simplex Retrofriction shifters, adjusted brake pads, and correctly-oriented 48T chain ring. Much better, and Retrofrictions are sublime. Why bother with any other friction shifter?



Too low of lighting aside, V1.3 gave way to V1.6 with it's 7800 Dura-Ace RD (to gauge shift lever pull over 7 speeds) and Tektro CR720 cantis in the rear as the 69.7mm post spacing and 285mm height allowed for their use. My favorite canti brakes set up and worked flawlessly from the start, with strong, silent braking. The super narrow 55.4mm front posting relegated me to the stock MC70 cantis, which performed fine as before.



A little Suntour clamp works with the Retros just fine!



For current and future reference, this is the position of the right lever after pulling a 7-speed cassette. It's a lot, but it should do 8-10 speeds just fine. Other people have had similar success, so I put this into evidence as well. 7900 10-speed Dura-Ace downtube shifters angle back this far, and I don't mind a little more angle if it means I can work a modern cassette.



A faithful and capable 7800 rear derailleur.



My favorite canti brakes. They await a lower straddle cable height because I prefer to not mess around with braking and steep hills. Worked amazingly well on my former 1990 Cannondale ST400.

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Old 06-24-20, 04:45 PM
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So here I am at a few decision points...

Paint:

The fork has been modified to have 69-70mm canti post spacing, so Tektros are a go up there. The fork will have to be repainted/coated. Tired paint and decals means either a repaint ($700 all in at a R&E) or a powder coat (Seattle Powder Coat charges $90 for paint stripping + $275 for a stocked color). I don't want to do a home job without a proper paint gun, mask, setup, and hard enamel clear coat. Powder coating at $365 is about $150 more than it was 3 years ago, but still a lot cheaper than paint. I've used SPC before and they do good work. Bump the price for a color match or for going with, say, Ford's Tuxedo Black (metallic), which is the same color as on my dad's Ford Expedition.

Wheels:

Mavic Open Pro Black rims are set in stone. I have 32-hole 7700 hubs and 32 slightly-too-long now (by 2mm) 298mm DT Swiss Revolution spokes. Get some nipple washers and use them? Just buy some pre-built wheels with those Open Pros for maybe less? I've been selling a ton of bike stuff, and intend to sell more. Offsetting cost is in the bag, but I may be a little tired of building wheels, haha.

Components:

42cm Nitto Noodles are on the way, I have the Tektros. I'll use the fancy pants 7402 brake levers (love them) and reuse the bar tape. Crankset is either that shined up Sugino AT (with new ink in the recessed text areas) or triplized 7402 crankset. Heck, the whole Paramount drivetrain may be ported over. Shifters are either 7900s over 10 speeds or Retrofrictions over those same 10 speeds. The goal is a silent tourer to just breeze along on, slow or fast. I'll show my work on the rough seat post--much better looking now! Brooks B17 saddle will also be present. The Paramount may lie fallow for a bit.

Anyways, feel free to bounce some ideas around on the paint and wheel front. I'm off to eat a late lunch.
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Old 06-24-20, 04:49 PM
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Well, well, what have we here? I didn’t take you for the touring bike type. I like it.
I used to hate cantis and touring bikes, and then I built up one. Boy, was I wrong! I like the the smoothness of the longer wheelbase.
Looks Good RoS!!

P.S. I can can relate to the urge to scour parts from other rides, but was able to resist the temptation.
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Old 06-24-20, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by RiddleOfSteel View Post
The result of this very hodgepodge build was nothing short of surprising and sublime. This bike is fast. And comfortable! But man, it's really rapid. Airy, breezy, easy kind of speed and demeanor. Out of the saddle? Eager and enthusiastic, just shy of my all-out race-geometry bikes. What is this thing??? Turning? Perfect. Here I am in the middle of battling my Paramount's new TB14 wheel build and spoke replacement--the Paramount, an always strong frame made even stronger (and perhaps a tad harsh) with the addition of the TB14s--and along comes this cobbled-together semi-tired paint Expedition with worn and abandoned parts, regular spokes, and some (thankfully) decent tires (tires that couldn't quell the TB14 impact characteristics when mounted) and just blows me away.
That sounds a lot like my experience with my Sequoia. I went from, "It's not very pretty, but I've heard good things so I guess I'll give it a try," to "Holy Crap! This thing is amazing!" in about a quarter mile. That first day I was ready to swear that it even coasted faster than my other bikes. (My friend Adam suggested that maybe I finally got a wheel in straight!) For my first build I used a set of wheels with Tiagra hubs and box section Salsa Delgado rims that felt dead on a couple of other bikes. For over a year I was afraid to upgrade to better wheels for fear that I wouldn't want to ride anything else if the ride got even better.

It basically invalidated every theory I had about what details might be good predictors of ride quality. Sounds like you're in that same neighborhood.


Originally Posted by RiddleOfSteel View Post
So here I am at a few decision points...

Paint:
I feel like the colors of the very early Specialized bikes are so closely tied to the bikes that it's an act of rebellion to choose another color. I also feel like all of them except the red Allez are kind of frumpy. It's definitely a dilemma.

Have you considered ordering samples from Prismatic Powders? I did that with the last couple of bikes I had powder coated. The ones I chose came out looking pretty close to the samples. The "Cosmic Grey" I used for my Grand Jubilé would be a decent starting point if you want to recreate the original color.

I feel like the canti post modification kind of gave you a pass on what to do here. The original paint was right on that border where I'd be torn between trying to touch up the rough spots and getting it resprayed. The metal work makes that choice a lot easier.
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Old 06-24-20, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by tyler_fred View Post
Well, well, what have we here? I didn’t take you for the touring bike type. I like it.
I used to hate cantis and touring bikes, and then I built up one. Boy, was I wrong! I like the the smoothness of the longer wheelbase.
Looks Good RoS!!

P.S. I can can relate to the urge to scour parts from other rides, but was able to resist the temptation.
Thanks!

Yeah, I am quite partial to race bikes, for all the obvious reasons. I have liked touring bikes for a while, but a combination of wanting to find the right one while at the same time dealing with a bum knee has kept them at arms length. I finally was able to make an appointment for a bike fit/ride/PT guy that comes highly recommended--took me nearly a year and sorta-post-C19 to do so...too long.

The Expedition has four critical bits I'm looking for in a model touring bike (in my mind): 1) triple bottle cage boss pairs 2) mid-fork rack mounts 3) canti brakes 4) 450mm chain stays. I wish it had braze-on DT shifter bosses, but I have that covered easily. The vertical rear dropouts are a huge bonus.

As far as rapidity, it echos the spirit of the ST Cannondales, just in fully-steel form. Race bike-like reactions and out-of-saddle responses, yet stable (not staid) and comfortable at slower speeds with larger tires. I really like that.

I may parts scour as the Paramount has been partially disassembled and is awaiting some re-imagining (I have an idea or two). I need to polish up the AT crankset, and that may go onto a different bike. I did a ton of gear-inch calculations and thanks to 10 speeds in the back, half-stepping is not needed. A 53/59/26 as I currently have on the Paramount gives great range and unique ratios with an 11-28T cassette. I'll see what I can dig up.
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Old 06-24-20, 06:10 PM
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Early Specialized bikes have certainly crept up my list of desirable bikes. If I had room for a full on touring rig I would be keeping my eyes open for an early Spec touring bike. For now I'll continue with my current plan to build a rat urban flat bar bomber bike out of a Univega Via Charisma hybrid frame It has low rider mounts on the fork so it can pitch hit for a tourer. Even though I have that part of the stable figured out, it doesn't mean I am not jealous of this build. Excited to see V1.4 and onward!

Btw, RiddleOfSteel what is the name of your bike PT/fitter guy? I have been needing PT and a fitter in Seattle.
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Old 06-24-20, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy_K View Post
That sounds a lot like my experience with my Sequoia. I went from, "It's not very pretty, but I've heard good things so I guess I'll give it a try," to "Holy Crap! This thing is amazing!" in about a quarter mile. That first day I was ready to swear that it even coasted faster than my other bikes. (My friend Adam suggested that maybe I finally got a wheel in straight!) For my first build I used a set of wheels with Tiagra hubs and box section Salsa Delgado rims that felt dead on a couple of other bikes. For over a year I was afraid to upgrade to better wheels for fear that I wouldn't want to ride anything else if the ride got even better.

It basically invalidated every theory I had about what details might be good predictors of ride quality. Sounds like you're in that same neighborhood.

I feel like the colors of the very early Specialized bikes are so closely tied to the bikes that it's an act of rebellion to choose another color. I also feel like all of them except the red Allez are kind of frumpy. It's definitely a dilemma.

Have you considered ordering samples from Prismatic Powders? I did that with the last couple of bikes I had powder coated. The ones I chose came out looking pretty close to the samples. The "Cosmic Grey" I used for my Grand Jubilé would be a decent starting point if you want to recreate the original color.

I feel like the canti post modification kind of gave you a pass on what to do here. The original paint was right on that border where I'd be torn between trying to touch up the rough spots and getting it resprayed. The metal work makes that choice a lot easier.
For sure. The Expedition went from "We'll see" to "This is the 'center' of all my bikes...do I need other bikes???" pretty quickly. About a half mile of warm up slower speeds and then as I hit some high-speed sections (this is all on my test ride route) it became evident that it was not just "some touring bike" designed and made by another company, quality as that company may be.

The bike has 40.4mm of space between the tangs on the narrow-crown front fork. I could fit nominal 38s in there, but the 30mm Grand Bois Wobbly Hotdogs, at 290g or so, look good and more importantly, give a great front trail number that the bike likes and are under 300g. I get the whole big tire thing, but I believe in the myriad benefits of lighter tires (like 23mm and 25mm race tires), especially for how I like to ride and how I like a bike to respond.

In riding with those tires mounted on "just some wheels" it's basically paralyzed me with regard to wheel choices, which is pretty crazy until you sift through the context stated in prior posts regarding the TB14s. Open Pros have always been fine rims, though nothing overtly special in my riding past. But then, I was nowhere nearly as tuned into things as I am now. The gloss black spoke bed of these test-ride Open Pros worked really well with the tan sidewall, machined brake track, and dark grey paint. A TB14 at 505g is a lot, and the OP's come in at ~435g, which is considerably lighter. A proven track record (recent occasional QC issues aside) and a known ride quality quantity makes it a lock for me. I crudely measured the spoke diameter of these free/donor wheels at my parents' place last week and they're 2.0mm with no butting as far as I/the Crescent wrench can tell.

So yeah, we talk about what we've figured out about ride quality, and know enough to be pretty close, but then something like this goes and blows it up. I still have 32 DT Swiss Revolution spokes waiting around, which is money not doing anything, and running my 7700 hubs with Open Pros through a spoke calculator has them at 296.5mm for the front (left and right sides), and 295.9/294.3mm for the rear (left and ride sides), so actually....the barely-too long spokes could work! Well, guess who's gonna build some more wheels...lol.

Regarding colors, yeah, metallic black would be cool, but I'd for sure want to see in-person color examples. When I went to Seattle Powder Coat last to get my former 1985 Paramount done, I wanted a pretty dark grey metallic. I selected what I thought would work well, and it ended up lighter. I then ordered light gold decals from Velocals and those ended up darker. What a comedy. Though, to be fair, it ended up looking really nice, especially with the warm grey color of the Dura-Ace 7700 crankset's chain rings.

The red of the Allez is really nice, but then you (theoretically) roll my former 1985 Schwinn Peloton next to it and it looks a bit dull. The Peloton's red was fire. Rich, full, but fire. Early Sequoias in that dark blue metallic were really pretty. Just like the very early '80s Trek 410s and 610s. If talking about frumpy colors, let's include early Treks. Good night! So much 'meh' with a few stand-outs. If you have a picture of your Grand Jubilee I would would appreciate it! Thank you for swaying me in the original color direction. It brings me back to the black/tan/dark grey color combo that I really do like, and that looks dynamite on this expedition. I should add that I do have the decals to it, from Velocals, bought by the previous owner. They are a touch smaller than the original ones, but I'm ok with it. It won't be original paint! And like you said, with the metal work done, it makes my decision easy. Prior to that, strip the decals, buff the paint, touch up, put new decals on and don't look too hard and it would be passable. And I wouldn't get ran out of town by the patina crowd.

Somehow, I still go back and forth on paint versus powder coat, even if PC is just over half of what painting costs. I just like the deeper gloss look of paint. And then I think...$700 is no joke. Am I a stingy splurger? Maybe.
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Old 06-24-20, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by RiddleOfSteel View Post
If you have a picture of your Grand Jubilee I would would appreciate it!
The usual electronic color caveats apply, of course. I think it looks a good bit darker than it looks in most of these pictures on my monitor.









Here's what Prismatic Powders sent me:

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Old 06-24-20, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by tricky View Post
Early Specialized bikes have certainly crept up my list of desirable bikes. If I had room for a full on touring rig I would be keeping my eyes open for an early Spec touring bike. For now I'll continue with my current plan to build a rat urban flat bar bomber bike out of a Univega Via Charisma hybrid frame It has low rider mounts on the fork so it can pitch hit for a tourer. Even though I have that part of the stable figured out, it doesn't mean I am not jealous of this build. Excited to see V1.4 and onward!

Btw, RiddleOfSteel what is the name of your bike PT/fitter guy? I have been needing PT and a fitter in Seattle.
Those early 700C hybrids were basically proto-gravel bikes in nearly every sense. Uncanny! And cool. The Miyata Triple Cross comes to mind. Off road touring bike essentially, just spec'd for even wider tires.

Sequoias are cool, and have a cool name, but the sport touring bike slot is already filled with my Paramount. Standard reach side pull calipers and larger tire clearances with medium length chain stays and touring-like frame angles. Cantis, triple cages, fork mounts, long stays or bust!

The PT/fitter guy's company is called Footworks and he's located in south downtown Seattle. Was in Pioneer Square, now just a touch south. IT band, it's anchor point at the knee, and the muscle/tendons just below that are the big focus, and it's directly affected by my left foot's position and orientation. An old injury (long healed) and slightly shorter femur I think play into things. As much as I've thought and experimented with positions, shims, wedges, etc, I'm essentially happy to have my theories blown out of the water and something figured out. I just want to ride for a million miles and only get tired, not hurt!

Regarding my Allez SE, which I do really like: I'm hoping that I can get the pedal and IT band situation sorted, otherwise...the bike as set up, which is visually perfect, is no bueno for my lower back and legs (leaned over, reduced torso-to-femur angle, etc), and thus I have a tough decision. The bike steers beautifully and is eager out of the saddle. In my experience, the out-of-saddle characteristics get better with brake levers/hoods up another 1.5" (like with a compact profile bar). Steering would still be good, too, I think. The big problem is that it wouldn't look period correct, and it was a bike built to do so. So then I think, sell it as is (to get proper money for it) to someone who is looking for the original look, or....??? It would look cool modernized, but with silver components, but it's already committed fully to the downtube shifter life, and the bucket of Superbe Pro on it. Plus modernizing it would put it right there with my 1987 Schwinn Prologue in myself not having any regard for period correct purity (I've had Di2 on the Prologue). I sort of really don't want to undo the Benotto Cello Tape job on the Allez either. Lol.
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Old 06-24-20, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy_K View Post
The usual electronic color caveats apply, of course. I think it looks a good bit darker than it looks in most of these pictures on my monitor.



Here's what Prismatic Powders sent me:

Thank you for sending these! That grey, IMO/on my monitor (and looking at the fork beside me), is a bit lighter than the Expeditions. The first photo with the black Gugificazione! decal gives me a pretty good idea of things. I want a little darker than original I think, but I'll have to see what I can find. There's a stripe on the decal that's really close to the original grey, and I'd like there to be more contrast.
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Old 06-24-20, 07:56 PM
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Color me equal parts jealous and inspired. I think your paint is in really good shape as she sits but I can also appreciate an Expedition being worth a respray.

I have a soft spot for these machines since it was an '83 Expedition that got me into road riding in the mid-2000s after years of BMX and mountain biking. Rode the heck out of it built up like a racer until I succumbed to carbon fiber and later back to C&V. Oddly, I never configured the Expedition as a tourer. I agree it's remarkably fast and incredibly comfortable. Unfortunately, years of Houston perspiration took it's toll and it's now a rusty husk sitting in a box.

After reading your experience, it makes me want to relive some miles on the Expedition. Over the years, I've compiled all the original components and wheels so now it comes down to rust mitigation and repaint. I look forward to seeing what direction you decide to go.
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Old 06-24-20, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by RiddleOfSteel View Post
Thank you for sending these! That grey, IMO/on my monitor (and looking at the fork beside me), is a bit lighter than the Expeditions.
Yeah, probably. I'm not sure I've seen one of these Expeditions in person. In a lot of pictures I have trouble convincing myself they aren't drifting toward the slate blue of the later Sequoias.

I know you could end up spending days browsing here: https://www.prismaticpowders.com/sho...s_finish_metal
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Old 06-24-20, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy_K View Post
Yeah, probably. I'm not sure I've seen one of these Expeditions in person. In a lot of pictures I have trouble convincing myself they aren't drifting toward the slate blue of the later Sequoias.

I know you could end up spending days browsing here: https://www.prismaticpowders.com/sho...s_finish_metal
Oh yes, I have spent a little time on that website. Time to see what all the greys are about!

The pictures of my Expedition are a tinge darker than it actually is, but they're still pretty close. It's a little deceptive.
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Old 06-24-20, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by plonz View Post
Color me equal parts jealous and inspired. I think your paint is in really good shape as she sits but I can also appreciate an Expedition being worth a respray.

I have a soft spot for these machines since it was an '83 Expedition that got me into road riding in the mid-2000s after years of BMX and mountain biking. Rode the heck out of it built up like a racer until I succumbed to carbon fiber and later back to C&V. Oddly, I never configured the Expedition as a tourer. I agree it's remarkably fast and incredibly comfortable. Unfortunately, years of Houston perspiration took it's toll and it's now a rusty husk sitting in a box.

After reading your experience, it makes me want to relive some miles on the Expedition. Over the years, I've compiled all the original components and wheels so now it comes down to rust mitigation and repaint. I look forward to seeing what direction you decide to go.
I am glad you had such a great experience! My touring builds have usually had some bit of "sport" infused as I just like go-fast bikes. Racks and fenders only if need be, otherwise I prefer to always feel the essence or purity of the bike. I will admit, though, that the extra weight does occasionally imbue that bike (whichever it may be) with a certain grace as it goes along.

The previous owner was planning on refinishing it before looking at it very honestly and passing it along. And now that the fork has been modified with properly-spaced canti bosses, it pushes the needle solidly into the "refinish" zone. The decals being included with the sale of the frameset was icing on the cake.

I'm looking at metallic dark grey powder coat samples (so many greys!) online thanks to Andy K. It's a good time. I'm looking to go a touch darker than original, but I'll keep the original grey as an option until the end.

The choice of crankset will likely set the tone for things. Sugino ATs have a lovely demure quality about them. Elegant, timeless. A 7402 Dura-Ace crankset, while also timeless and beautiful, is a confident-looking crankset. A big, strong, dark grey frame with "Expedition" emblazoned on its flanks certainly pairs well with a Dura-Ace crankset (in tripleized form). The tripleizer adds some curve and whimsy, softening the 7402's appearance. I'd pair that with 10-speed down tube shifters (7900 Dura-Ace) and rig the 7803 FD and 7700 semi-long cage RD and we'd have a serious touring bike.

If I ran the AT crankset, I'd likely pair it with the Retrofriction shifters as I think both share similar aesthetic and intention themes. The hunt for an appropriate rear derailleur (and front) would be on, but given my desire to run a full range 10-speed cassette, it'd have to be from the Shimano fold due to it having the highest pull ratio at 1.7:1 (Campagnolo is 1.5:1, but has worked for others). I'm still open to finding a pair of polished Campagnolo derailleurs as I think that would go well with the look and intent of the Sugino/Retrofriction pair.

I suppose I can only entertain so much casualness or whimsy before going, "You know, Dan? You're going to ride this everywhere, and that includes a noisy city where you can't hear the shifting (to tell you it's solidly in gear) and you'll invariably get into a slight pickle with traffic, lights, hills, and/or stopping. And you know, you're going to grumble big time at those lovely friction shifters." This is the brutal truth. I don't live in Carnation, I live in Seattle. I don't want to relegate a bike to country riding only as country riding rarely happens at present.

Brake levers: The plan is to use my NOS 7402 Dura-Ace levers, which feel fantastic and work beautifully with the Tektros (and, well, everything). On a full Dura-Ace build, this is what I would choose. With the Sugino AT et al, I'd run either Tektro R200 levers with silver blades, or Shimano BL-R600 levers as they are fully black with a silver blade. The pearlized grey of the 7402 levers is a bit "serious, techy '80s" and I'd want it to be with friends.

I have those CR720 cantis in black presently. They'd complement a full Dura-Ace build. And the black Mavic Open Pros. The silver/polished CR720s would be something I'd have to buy, but they'd go perfectly with the Sugino AT and its friends.

This may end up being a near-complete parts transfer from the Paramount. It gets the Expedition on the road the quickest and fits my demeanor and use intent. I may still throw Retrofrictions on it in the end, who knows! The inner battle for the soul of the bike to reflect...my own... Are all bikes a projection? Maybe! Serious, concerned, but with levity to bring balance... My Paramount could get the Sugino AT while I re-outfit it with upright, swept-back bars (Nitto B602's) and flat pedals. Full whimsy.
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Old 06-25-20, 03:23 AM
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Originally Posted by RiddleOfSteel View Post
"You know, Dan? You're going to ride this everywhere, and that includes a noisy city where you can't hear the shifting (to tell you it's solidly in gear) and you'll invariably get into a slight pickle with traffic, lights, hills, and/or stopping. And you know, you're going to grumble big time at those lovely friction shifters." This is the brutal truth. I don't live in Carnation, I live in Seattle. I don't want to relegate a bike to country riding only as country riding rarely happens at present.

This may end up being a near-complete parts transfer from the Paramount. It gets the Expedition on the road the quickest and fits my demeanor and use intent. I may still throw Retrofrictions on it in the end, who knows! The inner battle for the soul of the bike to reflect...my own... Are all bikes a projection? Maybe! Serious, concerned, but with levity to bring balance... My Paramount could get the Sugino AT while I re-outfit it with upright, swept-back bars (Nitto B602's) and flat pedals. Full whimsy.
Considering the thought, experimentation and care that went into your Paramount build, parts transfer is nothing short of bi-winning: new feels for one and best-of-touring-class for the other

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Old 06-25-20, 11:42 AM
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Congratulations, appears you got an outstanding specimen. From the pictures, yours has a lug set that is both longer and more finely filed than those on my 1984 Expedition. A very elegant look to go with the great ride. Don

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Early November in Western Oregon

Fallen Leaves, Winter Coming Soon
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Old 06-25-20, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ollo_ollo View Post
Congratulations, appears you got an outstanding specimen. From the pictures, yours has a lug set that is both longer and more finely filed than those on my 1984 Expedition. A very elegant look to go with the great ride. Don
Thanks! Your Expedition looks very nice as well--Flag triple and down tube shifter braze-ons:
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Old 06-25-20, 03:25 PM
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Ok @Andy_K I didn't spend days on the Prismatic website, but I did spend a few hours, haha. I've never looked at so many grey metallics before!

Aside from, say, Illusion Cherry not being practical/feasible (two layer application is too thick for nice results on lugged bikes), I've sifted through all the greys and decided that Cadillac Grey is the closest grey without going lighter than I'd like. It has great 'flop' from light to dark, matching, to me, the drama of the Expedition's original paint pretty well. The metallic flake is a touch enthusiastic. That's what's nice about wet paint jobs, the clear coat can obscure (via reflection) the metallic flake in the base coat underneath, whereas powder coat has all the color and flake and gloss on one level.



This is a really nice example of the color on a tube. Perfect for pretending it's a bike frame. It's really quite nice.



Dark Grey Sparkle is also pretty close to original, and perhaps just lacks a touch of depth/flop. The reflections don't help, but it's still a little light for me.



Cool Charcoal is another possibility, but...not there. Base Dark Grey may be close as well.

Wet Charcoal was another leading candidate, and it presents very well. It may also be a little light for my liking, but the finer metallic is a plus. Ordering samples will likely be the best bet, unless Seattle Powder Coat has them on hand. I think they may, but I will need to ask.


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Old 06-25-20, 07:23 PM
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So, thanks to C-19, we all know there are parts shortages. Apparently the world needs a ton of Tektro canti brake cable stops (fork mounted, not headset-mounted), and there are none left! The last one I had I put on my Cannondale ST400. Recycled Cycles doesn't have one, so I am thinking I will need to turn to you guys (including the BF classifieds) for some assistance!
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Old 06-26-20, 10:45 AM
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Wet Charcoal looks really good to my eye, of the colors you posted. To me, the more understated metallic would take preference over a marginally more accurate color match. I know you didn't specifically ask for opinions, but you did post the finalists, so there's my 2 cents worth.
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Old 06-26-20, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by due ruote View Post
Wet Charcoal looks really good to my eye, of the colors you posted. To me, the more understated metallic would take preference over a marginally more accurate color match. I know you didn't specifically ask for opinions, but you did post the finalists, so there's my 2 cents worth.
Thank you for your opinion! I solicited thoughts for paint vs powdercoat, but also left it open (in my mind) for other thoughts, especially after posting links and pictures to the various metallic greys. The subtler metallic in Wet Charcoal is attractive to me as 1) It's most similar to the Expedition's metallic flake level and 2) I'm not going for a glitter bomb look. Cadillac Grey sits on the edge, at least to me looking at a computer screen, of metallic is fine/too much metallic. It'll still come down to color samples, and I'll be sending the contact email to SPC today to see if they have ones on-site or if I need to order. They do have a number of sample books, so I'm confident they'd have swatches. I'll report back.
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Old 06-27-20, 01:48 PM
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I actually like all your examples, so it would be a hard choice for me. When I got my Expedition, many years ago, thecrankset, and deer head Deore RD were new replacements along with a new Super Champion front rim and new Mavic rear. There was damaged and missing paint around the head tube/top tube/down tube junction though. But I found a near perfect paint match in those small auto paint touch up cans available at a local NAPA auto parts store and was quite pleased with the end results. Don
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Old 06-27-20, 07:21 PM
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I'm sort of surprised that no one else has mentioned this so far, but it's unimaginable to me that you'd consider repainting that bike. The paint is fine. It's not supposed to have immaculate paint! Touring bikes are supposed to show some evidence hard miles. Seriously--don't mess with it. An original bike can always be repainted, but a repainted bike can never be unrepainted.

Okay, rant over.
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