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Seat post binder woe: powder coat content

Old 06-30-20, 02:03 AM
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Seat post binder woe: powder coat content

Masi 3V, with those infamous internal lugs. powder coated with metallic orange about a 5 years ago. finally having a chance to give it some love, found that the seatpost wouldn't get in. 27.2mm, it was 'smooth' in/out before repaint. did quick caliper-ing, freaked out to find out the seatpost binder ID now is like 26.9mm. WTH... then see it's inner wall opening—about 1/4" depth—has also nicely gotten powder coated. thanks to such a thorough masking job. (i mean, i should have caught it when i had gotten it back from the painter). uggggghhhhh.

did a quick google-ing, learnt the thickness of powder coating runs between 6mils to 12mils. aka thick AF. assuming it's 6mils = 0.15mm on both walls, so x 2 = 0.3mm. 27.2 - 0.3 = 26.9. makes sense. gonna be a good ol' fun of sanding. good news is that it's not the delicate tube part, just the opening of the thick lug. tellin' ya tho, sanding out powder coating is no joke...

not that i'm stuck seeking a solution or anything. just wanted to share. when you get your frame powder coated, make sure asking to mask all the holes & appropriate parts double well.


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Old 06-30-20, 03:06 AM
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Pretty standard to use a flex-hone on seat tubes.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Flex-Hone-1...QAAOSw7WBe4pRb
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Old 06-30-20, 07:50 AM
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You could use a round edge file to take down the thickness, also pry the opening a little, that may do the trick.
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Old 06-30-20, 07:54 AM
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Brake cylinder hone. You may have to bend it to fit.




If it's extremely bad, a reamer set to 27.1mm. From the looks of it though, that frame shouldn't require anything but that powder knocked off on the inside of the tube.

-Kurt
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Old 06-30-20, 10:03 AM
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A bit of fine sand paper or emery cloth, used in small folded pieces and with finger insertion applied pressure, just rotate and rotate, checking frequently for result. Been there before, only with chrome plating. Anyway, were it me, I would stay away from chemicals.
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Old 06-30-20, 10:11 AM
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Split a dowel, insert emery cloth, chuck in drill to hack a hone. Stuff a rag down first to catch material.
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Old 06-30-20, 10:34 AM
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gonna start with acetone (brilliant!) first, then move to good ole' sanding, then pro'ly some hone or reamer hack. thanks for all the suggestions and insights.
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Old 06-30-20, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. 66 View Post
You could use a round edge file to take down the thickness, also pry the opening a little, that may do the trick.
(hopefully i wouldn't have to go that way, but outta curiosity)
as much scary as it sounds, i had indeed a bit of suspicion that the binder part might have been pinched in a bit. in case, what's the best method to 'pry' the opening? tried to stick and twist a screw driver (carefully) in between the binder opening, didn't seem a right thing to do so i stopped. 1. not enough leverage 2. might well just leave a pitting with no result.

what's C&V standard of 'prying the opening' when necessarily? i understand it's cast metal that i shouldn't mess with too much wedging or prying...

Last edited by orangeology; 06-30-20 at 10:52 AM.
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Old 06-30-20, 10:57 AM
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I’d knock a hardwood wedge in gently to pry it open a bit.
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Old 06-30-20, 12:00 PM
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Flap sander with extension. Worked well for me when I had to remove corrosion. Go slow and measure frequently.

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Old 06-30-20, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by orangeology View Post
what's C&V standard of 'prying the opening' when necessarily? i understand it's cast metal that i shouldn't mess with too much wedging or prying...
find a shop with a seatpost mandrel. Should be a cheap job.
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Old 06-30-20, 12:18 PM
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I use a 1" wooden dowel rod wrapped in paper and over wrapped with sand paper to give a good fit - loose enough for easy sanding but tight enough to sand more than just a single stripe. This allows me to sand away internal burrs and excess paint without the risk of damaging the underlying tube.

I'm not a shop, so buying a hone just seems unwarranted for this application.
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Old 06-30-20, 12:53 PM
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My standard way to pry open is to use a large flat screw driver from the inside to outside to ensure to engage the seat binder boss. Go gently. It may not even require a hammer, tap with the palm of you hand. A mandrel would be ideal but I don't have one. My expereince is that once it is spread, the clamping of the post will round it out enough. The material is pretty soft so go easy, after all, it has to be flexible to form and hold the post.
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Old 06-30-20, 01:05 PM
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If the seatpost fit fine prior to powder coating do not use a screwdriver, or anything else to pry open the slot. It was fine before, remove the powder coat, it should slip right back in. If it didn't, then somewhere along the way it got pinched - but don't assume that!

Several appropriate methods of removing powder coat from the inside of the tube have been shown. I'd avoid acetone or other chemicals as it will be difficult to make sure it doesn't get on the outside finish.

If you have to ask a powder coater to mask a seatpost, you've got the wrong powder coater. Find someone who knows how to powder coat a bike.
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Old 06-30-20, 02:15 PM
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I think I spent $30 on my beat-up Chadwick adjustable reamer.

I do not regret it one bit, and it is a joy to use. You might feel the same if you ever have to fix a seat tube more than once!

As for prying, it is possibly appropriate when the seat binder ears seem like they have been smushed together (you can often see this if the binder bolt is bent or if the ears are visibly deformed). If the binder ears are brazed on or cast as part of the lug, as yours appear to be, often you can put a rod or long bolt through them to pry on them and to check if they're parallel. Having an old seatpost to use as a mandrel certainly helps. For stamped lug ears, it's not so easy and often the best course of action is to leave things alone.
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Old 06-30-20, 02:41 PM
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No prying. It worked perfectly before the paint was there. That's how to improperly compensate for the paint thickness.

No chemicals. You're risking lifting the paint at the corners, because you've got to get up to the absolute edge for your seatpost to insert correctly. That's why the hones and sandpaper ideas make sense. Otherwise, you'll risk chipping the paint at the edge or causing it to peel. And if it was urethane and not PC, acetone might not even get the paint off...

-Kurt
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Old 06-30-20, 03:03 PM
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thanks for all the inputs, folks.
will try to remove the coat first, then will see if prying is needed (hope not). happy tinkering!
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Old 06-30-20, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by orangeology View Post
prying the opening
reverse pliers, but don't release your inner gorilla
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Old 06-30-20, 05:39 PM
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I actually agree with not spreading it until you validate that it won't go in. Work hardening is not a preferred outcome in this case.
Srorta related. I had a stuck seat post. Thought if I spread the ears out it would help. it didn't.
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Old 06-30-20, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by SJX426 View Post
I actually agree with not spreading it until you validate that it won't go in.
I wouldn't spread it under any circumstances. Remember what the OP said:

Originally Posted by orangeology View Post
it was 'smooth' in/out before repaint.
That alone proves the frame is in spec and no spreading is necessary at all. The paint is the problem.

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Old 07-01-20, 06:51 PM
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just ordered this. burrrrrrrrrr

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Old 07-01-20, 07:39 PM
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Nothing to add but a question: have you tried to insert a binder bolt into the ears yet? I wonder if the PC has affected the installation of a properly-sized bolt as well.

DD
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Old 07-01-20, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Drillium Dude View Post
Nothing to add but a question: have you tried to insert a binder bolt into the ears yet? I wonder if the PC has affected the installation of a properly-sized bolt as well.

DD
Ditto for the bottom bracket threads and faces, along with the fork crown race seat...

-Kurt
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Old 07-01-20, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Drillium Dude View Post
Nothing to add but a question: have you tried to insert a binder bolt into the ears yet? I wonder if the PC has affected the installation of a properly-sized bolt as well.

DD
Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
Ditto for the bottom bracket threads and faces, along with the fork crown race seat...

-Kurt
inside binder ears seems fine. bottom bracket has a 'bit' of paint penetrating around the openings, but not too bad. more like thin splatters that will go away with a drop of aceton. guess he (indi guy in north jersey) 'plugged' all the flat opening holes like just 'ok', seat tube was problematic as it has some nice curves. also it looks like he was careful with 'threaded' part, obviously not with the seattube lug. inside the headtube is clean.

can't speak for the fork, i never had the fork for this frame—another reason why it took so long to resume the project. some story behind: had bought the frame from Ser Thrifty Bill, almost free with shipping due to the original frame 1. collision wrinkle on top & down tube 2. no fork. figured it was one of the last production of Masi 3V in their Cali shop, from the serial numbers and the markings. rode a bit after building it a SS, using some parts in the bins, really really liked it. wanted to give some 'proper' life, so i sent it to Franklin Frame OH. tremendous job he did—i had posted some photos back then somewhere here—replacing top & down tube with Deda Acciai Oversized. i also asked him to braze on cable stops instead of down tube shifter bosses, planning to do some modern build with thumb shifters.

original frame color was orange/black, so had it poweder coated with metallic orange at a local indi shop found on CL. been hunting the fork, was impossible to source the panto'd Masi original. now i have 2 forks incoming 1. a full chrome that i found on BST here last wk, 2. a chrome/orange aero Columbus tubing i found on an Austiran site. gonna have to see which one works better.


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