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Nuovo Record Rear Derailleur with Roadlink?

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Nuovo Record Rear Derailleur with Roadlink?

Old 02-03-23, 05:36 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by cocoabeachcrab View Post
i have a roadlink on hand, but i think by tweeking the chain length i can make it work sans link.
Fair enough... one thing I'll try is NR with long cage and perhaps no RoadLink.

BTW, if chain tension is good, who cares if the RD's parallelogram tilts far forward? On most drop-parallelogram RDs, the lower pivot is pretty far forward anyway, right? More chain wrap is a plus -- no?
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Old 02-04-23, 01:52 AM
  #27  
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I was taught BITD that the 'ideal' chain length makes the rear derailleur's pulley wheels vertical in both lowest gear (largest freewheel cog, inner chainring) as well as the highest gear (smallest cog, outer chainring).

I typically use a 54" chain, and I get the preceding vertical pulley alignment in top gear when using a Campy Nuovo Record rear derailleur. Using this chain chain length and pulley alignment, I usually can't use a big freewheel cog larger than 22T.

However, if you shorten the chain (by typically 1"), the altered rotation of the pulley plates increases the clearance between the upper pulley and the lower edge of the freewheel cogs. You can then use a larger freewheel. And, you can pull the rear wheel further back in the frame and gain some additional clearance as well. My vintage Pinarello catalog shows factory bikes set up with the shorter chain length, so the bottom pulley is forward of vertical when in the smallest freewheel cog and large chainring combination.

Campy Super Record pulley plates have the same spacing between the pulleys as NR, but the SR's pivot point (where it attaches to the pivot bolt) is about 1cm higher, so the pulleys are lowered by 1cm. With a NR derailleur using SR pulley plates and the same 54" chain, I can then shift into a 28T cog without fuss, and I don't have to pull the wheel further back in the dropout. However, the SR plates similarly increase the clearance to the smallest cogs. Also, the plates are thinner and I thus believe they are more flexible. With SR pulley plates, I find that shifting into a cog smaller than 14T is unreliable. I've usually had to shift to the small chainring, shift down to the 13T cog, and then upshift back on to the large chainring.

I've not used the Wolf Tooth derailleur extension tab. Instead, I bought (on eBay) a cheap copy of the Wolf Tooth derailleur extension tab because I wanted a silver tab instead of black. On the extension tab which I used, the tab didn't have good alignment on the rear dropout; it was rotated too forward. This caused the NR derailleur to have bad alignment and incorrect clearance to the freewheel; the derailleur body too horizontal and the drive train setup originally didn't work. To resolve the problem, my framebuilder friend made a stepped-down metal pin. He drilled the tab and then pressed in the pin. The new pin altered the tab alignment to near vertical. Using the modified derailleur extension tab with the original NR pulley plates then provided good shifting on to the 28T and also gave no hangup when shifting down to the 13T cog when on the large chainring.

I've read of others who successfully used it and they recommended it highly. They were able to use the Wolf Tooth extension tab because they could change the tab's alignment and tighten down the tab very tightly to keep it in place on the dropout, without needing the stop pin which I used on mine. Again, I have no experience with the Wolf Tooth extension tab.

By using the modified extension tab and the 54" chain, I figure I could probably shift into a 30T.

34x28 lowest gear. 49T large chainring, 54" chain. As-used chainstay length = 42.6cm


Modified extension tab. The pressed in pin makes the tab alignment closer to vertical when installed on the dropout.
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Old 02-04-23, 02:06 AM
  #28  
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Left to Right: Campy Rally, Campy Post-78 Super Record, Campy pre-78 Super Record, and Zeus post-76 2000.
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Old 02-04-23, 07:19 AM
  #29  
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Great input! As i assemble the drivetrain, I'll keep an eye on this. I do not have machine tools or the pin idea would be great; it actually occurred to me to jam some JB Weld in there... sloppy solution but perhaps it would work in conjunction with really tightening the bolt?

Part of me wonders if using the RoadLink plus the long cage is overkill. 13T-32T freewheel, right now the (Campy Record) chainrings are 43T/52T but I am considering 41T/47T.

Originally Posted by Andrew_G View Post
I was taught BITD that the 'ideal' chain length makes the rear derailleur's pulley wheels vertical in both lowest gear (largest freewheel cog, inner chainring) as well as the highest gear (smallest cog, outer chainring). I typically use a 54" chain, and I get the preceding vertical pulley alignment in top gear when using a Campy Nuovo Record rear derailleur. Using this chain chain length and pulley alignment, I usually can't use a big freewheel cog larger than 22T. However, if you shorten the chain (by typically 1"), the altered rotation of the pulley plates increases the clearance between the upper pulley and the lower edge of the freewheel cogs. You can then use a larger freewheel. And, you can pull the rear wheel further back in the frame and gain some additional clearance as well. My vintage Pinarello catalog shows factory bikes set up with the shorter chain length, so the bottom pulley is forward of vertical when in the smallest freewheel cog and large chainring combination.

Campy Super Record pulley plates have the same spacing between the pulleys as NR, but the SR's pivot point (where it attaches to the pivot bolt) is about 1cm higher, so the pulleys are lowered by 1cm. With a NR derailleur using SR pulley plates and the same 54" chain, I can then shift into a 28T cog without fuss, and I don't have to pull the wheel further back in the dropout. However, the SR plates similarly increase the clearance to the smallest cogs. Also, the plates are thinner and I thus believe they are more flexible. With SR pulley plates, I find that shifting into a cog smaller than 14T is unreliable. I've usually had to shift to the small chainring, shift down to the 13T cog, and then upshift back on to the large chainring. I've not used the Wolf Tooth derailleur extension tab. Instead, I bought (on eBay) a cheap copy of the Wolf Tooth derailleur extension tab because I wanted a silver tab instead of black. On the extension tab which I used, the tab didn't have good alignment on the rear dropout; it was rotated too forward. This caused the NR derailleur to have bad alignment and incorrect clearance to the freewheel; the derailleur body too horizontal and the drive train setup originally didn't work. To resolve the problem, my framebuilder friend made a stepped-down metal pin. He drilled the tab and then pressed in the pin. The new pin altered the tab alignment to near vertical. Using the modified derailleur extension tab with the original NR pulley plates then provided good shifting on to the 28T and also gave no hangup when shifting down to the 13T cog when on the large chainring. I've read of others who successfully used it and they recommended it highly. They were able to use the Wolf Tooth extension tab because they could change the tab's alignment and tighten down the tab very tightly to keep it in place on the dropout, without needing the stop pin which I used on mine. Again, I have no experience with the Wolf Tooth extension tab. By using the modified extension tab and the 54" chain, I figure I could probably shift into a 30T.
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Old 02-04-23, 08:02 AM
  #30  
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I have the NR with Soma long cage on one bike and it has no problem with a 13-32 freewheel. Doubt youíll need anything else.
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Old 02-04-23, 12:11 PM
  #31  
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I have tried various experiments, including 14-28 and 50-38 / 14-26, all unsuccessfully on my Bianchi. Sliding the rear axle forward or back in the dropout didn't help, either.

My best shot at a low gear with my PAT80 NR has been 46-38 / 13-15-17-20-23-26, which works fine and drops my bottom ratio by 10% from my previous (pictured) 50-42 / 14-16-18-20-23-26 setup.

I would absolutely need something like a RoadLInk to fit a larger 1st gear cog., because the cage barely clears 26T without one. Rant: Whatever happened to the tilt adjustment screw I have on my old Campag. Gran Sport?


Original equipment matched 1982 Campione d'Italia specs. Frame date is late 1981. "Charcoal" color not found in catalog listing.
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Old 02-04-23, 01:16 PM
  #32  
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You might be able to hire a machinist to modify the extension tab. It could be stupid-expensive, but it could be done.

Engineering joke: "All problems are solved with money. How big is your problem, and how much money do you have?"


My frame builder friend has a lathe and a drill press. He used some stainless steel rod to make the step down pin. The step down pin has a 4mm diameter on the visible exterior, with a 5.5 mm exterior length. I don't know the diameter nor the length of the inside (pressed-in) section, but I'd guess that the pressed-in section has between 1/2 to 2/3rds the outside diameter, and the length may similarly be 1/2 to 2/3rds the thickness of the extension tab (which is about 5.5mm).


If you check my posting for the various pulley plates, you'll see that compared to Campy NR, the Campy SR plates lower the upper pulley by about 9mm, while the long cage Rally plates (at far left) lower the upper pulley by 16mm. The advantage of the Rally plates is its capacity of swallowing up the additional chain length when shifting to a very small inner chainring.


I did try the extension tab with Super Record pulley plates. As I recall, the shifting both up and down on the smaller cogs was quite poor.


Lastly, I do have a set of Campy Super Record pulley plates for sale. LMK if you're interested.


Andrew G.
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Old 02-04-23, 02:46 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by C9H13N View Post
I have the NR with Soma long cage on one bike and it has no problem with a 13-32 freewheel. Doubt youíll need anything else.
Probably the first thing I should try.
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Old 02-07-23, 01:04 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by C9H13N View Post
I have the NR with Soma long cage on one bike and it has no problem with a 13-32 freewheel. Doubt youíll need anything else.
OK, the RoadLink and the Soma cage are here, and (in another topic) got past an axle spacing problem that kept the wheel from turning, so I can start playing with the gearing (although I should have had the cables here and hooked up, it would have been easier). Here are four photos all using the 42T chainring: using the Roadlink, one on 13T, one on 32T; and without the RoadLink, one on 13T and one on 32T. What do you think?





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Old 02-07-23, 02:31 PM
  #35  
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Significantly more chain wrap with the Roadlink. If it shifts well I would leave it on.
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Old 02-07-23, 02:54 PM
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@tiger1964

"Stamped DO's, claw, road link, NR with Soma long cages" conjures up a very convoluted picture in my minds eye which I'm always good with just because.

That being said, I really dig this, nothing convoluted about it here and looks great IMO, if it works then run with it.

The IRD has an odd Terminator like vibe to me with the solid cogs and also works well here too, not normally a fan.

I would also consider stripping the black off the road link and claw to integrate the look although it also works with them highlighted.

I would have them blend in so observers would have to do a double take when they figure out whats really going on.

Last edited by merziac; 02-07-23 at 03:04 PM.
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Old 02-07-23, 03:31 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by obrentharris View Post
Significantly more chain wrap with the Roadlink. If it shifts well I would leave it on.
...and I do owe a follow-up report once I know how it shifts in both configurations. Igor at Velo Orange confirmed he had no plans for a cable sale so I ordered them anyway and fortunately he's only about 30 miles away. So, I might know by the weekend.

By the way, this is a 116-link Sram chain -- this is the first time ever that I've installed a chain on one of my bikes without immediately shortening it. Final length adjustment might follow but it kinda "looks right" now.

Originally Posted by merziac View Post
@tiger1964 "Stamped DO's, claw, road link, NR with Soma long cages" conjures up a very convoluted picture in my minds eye which I'm always good with just because.
That being said, I really dig this, nothing convoluted about it here and looks great IMO, if it works then run with it.
Agreed, I think it has a Campy Rally vibe about it, without the entrance fee.

Originally Posted by merziac View Post
The IRD has an odd Terminator like vibe to me with the solid cogs and also works well here too, not normally a fan. I would also consider stripping the black off the road link and claw to integrate the look although it also works with them highlighted. I would have them blend in so observers would have to do a double take when they figure out whats really going on.
Also agreed, and I wonder what that freewheel weighs (if I have reason to remove it, I should check); it looks like a beast to me. I should count teeth, the size difference between the 1st and 2nd cogs is enormous.

Hmm, I was dialoging with Wolf about the Roadlink, I should ask what finish is on it so see if stripping/polishing is practical.
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Old 02-07-23, 04:07 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Andrew_G View Post
......
Engineering joke: "All problems are solved with money. How big is your problem, and how much money do you have?"
.....
Andrew G.
A similar concept is the idea of shoveling money at a problem. This is usually the last option for a solution, but sometimes that's what it takes.

I suspect that my next suggestion has already been rejected by this audience, and that's fine, but maybe the best solution is a true C&V solution?
i.e. a SunTour Cyclone GT?



I have to admit that I don't see the point of making a lot of changes to a Campy NR derailleur just to be able to say that you've got (part of) a Campy NR derailleur shifting your touring gears.


Steve in Peoria
(a Shimano Crane would also be acceptable, or even a Campy Rally, or really any vintage derailleur designed to handle the gear range)
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Old 02-07-23, 05:35 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by tiger1964 View Post
...and I do owe a follow-up report once I know how it shifts in both configurations. Igor at Velo Orange confirmed he had no plans for a cable sale so I ordered them anyway and fortunately he's only about 30 miles away. So, I might know by the weekend.

By the way, this is a 116-link Sram chain -- this is the first time ever that I've installed a chain on one of my bikes without immediately shortening it. Final length adjustment might follow but it kinda "looks right" now.



Agreed, I think it has a Campy Rally vibe about it, without the entrance fee.



Also agreed, and I wonder what that freewheel weighs (if I have reason to remove it, I should check); it looks like a beast to me. I should count teeth, the size difference between the 1st and 2nd cogs is enormous.

Hmm, I was dialoging with Wolf about the Roadlink, I should ask what finish is on it so see if stripping/polishing is practical.
Well I'm sure their company/party line would be to not mess with it but anodizing is not structural and I would not hesitate to easy off or just scrub with scotch brite and maybe rubbing compound, maybe wire wheel lightly and carefully.

Absolutely agree on the chain length look/vibe (not that that matters if it doesn't work).

Last edited by merziac; 02-07-23 at 05:49 PM.
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Old 02-10-23, 01:34 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by merziac View Post
@tiger1964 "Stamped DO's, claw, road link, NR with Soma long cages" conjures up a very convoluted picture in my minds eye which I'm always good with just because. That being said, I really dig this, nothing convoluted about it here and looks great IMO, if it works then run with it.
I got the cables and hooked everything in the drivetrain up. The Nuovo Record using both the Roadlink and the extended cage (see earlier photos) seems to work very well indeed across the entire range ó it even goes relatively smoothly into the combination of the 32T rear cog and the 52T outer chainring at the same time (why anyone would want to do that, I do know know).

Thanks for your input. This an interesting combination of modern and over-half-century-old technologyÖ and it works.
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Old 02-10-23, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by tiger1964 View Post
I got the cables and hooked everything in the drivetrain up. The Nuovo Record using both the Roadlink and the extended cage (see earlier photos) seems to work very well indeed across the entire range ó it even goes relatively smoothly into the combination of the 32T rear cog and the 52T outer chainring at the same time (why anyone would want to do that, I do know know).

Thanks for your input. This an interesting combination of modern and over-half-century-old technologyÖ and it works.
Excellent!
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Old 02-11-23, 01:37 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by steelbikeguy View Post
A similar concept is the idea of shoveling money at a problem. This is usually the last option for a solution, but sometimes that's what it takes.

I suspect that my next suggestion has already been rejected by this audience, and that's fine, but maybe the best solution is a true C&V solution?
i.e. a SunTour Cyclone GT?

I have to admit that I don't see the point of making a lot of changes to a Campy NR derailleur just to be able to say that you've got (part of) a Campy NR derailleur shifting your touring gears.


Steve in Peoria
(a Shimano Crane would also be acceptable, or even a Campy Rally, or really any vintage derailleur designed to handle the gear range)
What if itís the original NR that came on the bike?

The Spence Wolf cage for the NR was available in the 1970s. I donít know how many were made but Iím not holding my breath waiting for one to show up. The Soma cage is as close to that as Iíll get.

Campy NR w/ Soma, TA 48-32, New Winner Ultra 13-32, shown on big/big



Complete bike, Bill Davidson sport-tourer, mostly original except the TA crank, FD (changed to pre-cpsc because of the crank), saddle, rack/bag, and Soma cage.

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Old 02-11-23, 02:04 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by C9H13N View Post
What if it’s the original NR that came on the bike?
.....
well, this is how my Hetchins had been set up....



However, the Hetchins was manufactured as a frameset, so it didn't have a "correct" set of parts. I'm guessing that applies to your Davidson too.

I do have other bikes where it would be heresy to put a touring derailleur on it, such as my Raleigh Team..



Steve in Peoria
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Old 02-12-23, 07:03 AM
  #44  
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Well all this is very cool news to me. I gotta get me Soma cage extenders, if not the Road Link also for my two sitting-around-for-decades Campy RD's. Yippee !
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Old 02-12-23, 07:17 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by steelbikeguy View Post
A similar concept is the idea of shoveling money at a problem. This is usually the last option for a solution, but sometimes that's what it takes. I suspect that my next suggestion has already been rejected by this audience, and that's fine, but maybe the best solution is a true C&V solution?
i.e. a SunTour Cyclone GT? I have to admit that I don't see the point of making a lot of changes to a Campy NR derailleur just to be able to say that you've got (part of) a Campy NR derailleur shifting your touring gears.
Originally Posted by C9H13N View Post
What if itís the original NR that came on the bike? The Spence Wolf cage for the NR was available in the 1970s. I donít know how many were made but Iím not holding my breath waiting for one to show up. The Soma cage is as close to that as Iíll get.
i think you are both right. After 50+ years of cycling, finally built a bike w/Japanese components (all Suntour) and the Superbe RD works quite well; possibly as good or better than my FrankenCampy. But, yeah, in another topic I mentioned that this bike pictured belonged to the late father of my childhood friend and I'm keeping it mostly as he rode it. Then again, I might have done all this anyway! At least the NR's performance and longevity is a known quantity -- would a Suntour still shift as well after 50 years (RD is Pat 73)? And, at my age, who cares?

Originally Posted by Garthr View Post
Well all this is very cool news to me. I gotta get me Soma cage extenders, if not the Road Link also for my two sitting-around-for-decades Campy RD's. Yippee !
Wishing you good luck. YMMV, as they say. It'll cost a few dollars, the Soma cage ran $58 with S&H, the RoadLink a little over $20 (from Amazon, Prime, so no freight); the replace-with-Suntour option might actually be cheaper (but not a Campagnolo Rally, for sure)
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