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Rear hub question

Old 07-12-20, 05:22 PM
  #1  
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Rear hub question

I got a Schwinn single speed compatible rear hub and have a question about the axle length. Its being used on a Schwinn varsity from '79 I believe. Im assuming the axle in on this one is too short. Is it possible to use this with a quick release at the current axel length with a spacer? Im planning on using wingnuts in which case I'll need a longer axle. Are the rear hub axles a standard diameter for this vintage hub? Thanks!
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Old 07-12-20, 05:58 PM
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-----

this hub uses a hollow axle of 9.5mm by 1.0 (or 26TPI)

the solid axle is 9.5mm by 1.0 (or 26TPI) also

the over locknut diamension for the five speed spacing is 122mm

solid axle length is 160mm

hollow axle length (for five speed spacing) is 133mm or 135mm for 6V spacing

for 1979 its original use would have been for a 5V

threading is BSC/ISO

-----

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Old 07-12-20, 06:00 PM
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Is the axle hollow?

who said it is “single speed compatible”? To me it looks like a regular 5 or 6 speed hub that someone removed the drive side spacers.
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Old 07-12-20, 06:24 PM
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Sheldon's site says this

"Typical quick-release axles are 11 or 12 mm longer than the spacing of the hub locknuts. This gives 5.5-6 mm of axle protrusion on each side. You don't actually need nearly this much, so for respacing hubs to wider spacing, if you're not adding more than, say, 5-6 mm of spacers, you don't need a new axle. As long as you have 2 or 3 mm sticking out on each side, that's plenty."

here's the link https://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html
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Old 07-12-20, 07:13 PM
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Have you checked the rear triangle spacing to confirm it hasn't been cold set?
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Old 07-12-20, 07:41 PM
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I dont know how to do that. Do you mean has someone widened the distance between the dropouts?
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Old 07-12-20, 07:43 PM
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Thanks for that. I guess im just not sure if this is intended to be used with quick release skewers of nuts.
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Old 07-12-20, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Petersrock View Post
I dont know how to do that. Do you mean has someone widened the distance between the dropouts?
Typically you use a caliper, but you could use a ruler, esp. if it measures down to millimeters. Measure between the inside surfaces of the dropouts.
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Old 07-12-20, 08:01 PM
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Hi Bianchigirl, just checked and it is in fact hollow. If Iím trying to use wing itís, do you know if itís possible to replace the axle and hardware? I know itís a bit specific but this build was started by my friend who passed away and Iím trying to get as close to what he had planned as possible. Thanks for your help!
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Old 07-12-20, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by madpogue View Post
Typically you use a caliper, but you could use a ruler, esp. if it measures down to millimeters. Measure between the inside surfaces of the dropouts.
Sorry, yes I gave calipers, I just done know what Iíd be comparing it to.
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Old 07-12-20, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Petersrock View Post
Sorry, yes I gave calipers, I just done know what Iíd be comparing it to.
Just measure it and report it here. Also measure the distance between the locknuts on the axle.
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Old 07-13-20, 04:11 AM
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^^^^ measure from the outside of one lock nut to the outside of the other. Over Locknut Distance : OLD. That's the number that should closely match the distance from the inside of one DO to the inside of the other.

However, that hub looks wrong, not centered. The axle may be fine but, I wonder if someone overhauled the hub and left off some spacers on the NDS side and, thus, created too much exposed axle on the DS? That hub body should be pretty centered, just a bit to the NDS which would be accommodated by the rim dishing when the wheel is built. So the current OLD may not be relevant.

year and model of bike and the current DO spacing will be useful information.
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Old 07-13-20, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Prowler View Post
^^^^ measure from the outside of one lock nut to the outside of the other. Over Locknut Distance : OLD. That's the number that should closely match the distance from the inside of one DO to the inside of the other.

However, that hub looks wrong, not centered. The axle may be fine but, I wonder if someone overhauled the hub and left off some spacers on the NDS side and, thus, created too much exposed axle on the DS? That hub body should be pretty centered, just a bit to the NDS which would be accommodated by the rim dishing when the wheel is built. So the current OLD may not be relevant.

year and model of bike and the current DO spacing will be useful information.
My calipers arent big enough to measure the distances but I'll get them tomorrow. I did find a spacer that was included that Ive put on in the photo below, is it on the wrong side?. Maybe this photo will help. If the rear axle is hollow and larger diameter than the front hub axle which has nuts to secure to the fork is it safe to assume its made for quick release skewers? I ask because the ends of the axel sit flush with the outside of the dropout so a nut couldnt attach.



Thanks for all your help!
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Old 07-13-20, 07:44 PM
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A hollow axle is made for a quick release skewer, yes. And yes, your mock-up mounting is backward; the drive side of the hub goes on the drive side of the frame.

This confirms the speculation made above, that this is a conventional hub/axle made to take a freewheel.
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Old 07-13-20, 08:01 PM
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You can continue guessing about the correct dimensions of your bike parts or, you can obtain an inexpensive caliper measuring tool & find out what the actual size of what you need. Try to get a caliper that goes up to at least 6" and, that's accurate to at least 1/2 a millimeter.

https://www.amazon.com/Stainless-Mic...77604776&psc=1

Last edited by ramzilla; 07-13-20 at 08:09 PM.
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Old 07-13-20, 08:48 PM
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Ok - a bit of clarification, as I originally led the OP to choose this hub about a month ago:

The OP wanted to buy one of these specific Schwinn Approved hubs to build their singlespeed Varsity. It had to be this hub - but these particular hubs were only offered to fit 5-speed (and possibly 6, not sure) freewheels, and this one is, of course, set up as so, offset to the side to clear the five cogs. Obviously, respacing an old freewheel hub into a singlespeed hub isn't a big deal.

That said: Petersrock - assuming your Varsity frame is fine, it should measure 120mm. So should your hub. Yes, it helps to get a set of cheap Harbor Freight calipers, and you'll need them for the hub spacing I'm about to explain.

Right now, you have the factory, single large spacer + nut (a one piece deal on these particular hubs) on the right side of the hub. This is what takes up the space to offset the hub on the axle for the 5-speed freewheel which this hub was originally spec'ed with. You want to get this hub much closer to center, thus giving you a better chance at good singlespeed chainline and reducing the spoke offset to the rim.

To do this, you'll want to get some hardware store spacers for both the left and the right side of the hub. Undo the locknuts and walk the axle offset towards the left side of the hub by turning the hub bearing cones. Once you have it roughly centered, install the new spacers between the outer locknut and the washer for the bearing raceway. You want to make sure there are enough spacers that once the locknuts are cinched down, you wind up with no more or less than 120mm distance from axle nut to axle nut.

You'll also want to make sure the axle doesn't protrude past either of the dropouts when installed after this conversion.

EDIT: Wingnuts? You'll need a replacement solid axle for that.

-Kurt
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Old 07-14-20, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by ramzilla View Post
You can continue guessing about the correct dimensions of your bike parts or, you can obtain an inexpensive caliper measuring tool & find out what the actual size of what you need. Try to get a caliper that goes up to at least 6" and, that's accurate to at least 1/2 a millimeter.

https://www.amazon.com/Stainless-Mic...77604776&psc=1
On my way to HF today to pick up a caliper. Im not a guessing type but Im just not sure how this works. Ive been reading everything I can to try to learn its not the easiest thing in the world to figure out when its your first time dealing with these vintage bikes. I will update with measurements this afternoon.
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Old 07-14-20, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
Ok - a bit of clarification, as I originally led the OP to choose this hub about a month ago:

The OP wanted to buy one of these specific Schwinn Approved hubs to build their singlespeed Varsity. It had to be this hub - but these particular hubs were only offered to fit 5-speed (and possibly 6, not sure) freewheels, and this one is, of course, set up as so, offset to the side to clear the five cogs. Obviously, respacing an old freewheel hub into a singlespeed hub isn't a big deal.

That said: Petersrock - assuming your Varsity frame is fine, it should measure 120mm. So should your hub. Yes, it helps to get a set of cheap Harbor Freight calipers, and you'll need them for the hub spacing I'm about to explain.

Right now, you have the factory, single large spacer + nut (a one piece deal on these particular hubs) on the right side of the hub. This is what takes up the space to offset the hub on the axle for the 5-speed freewheel which this hub was originally spec'ed with. You want to get this hub much closer to center, thus giving you a better chance at good singlespeed chainline and reducing the spoke offset to the rim.

To do this, you'll want to get some hardware store spacers for both the left and the right side of the hub. Undo the locknuts and walk the axle offset towards the left side of the hub by turning the hub bearing cones. Once you have it roughly centered, install the new spacers between the outer locknut and the washer for the bearing raceway. You want to make sure there are enough spacers that once the locknuts are cinched down, you wind up with no more or less than 120mm distance from axle nut to axle nut.

You'll also want to make sure the axle doesn't protrude past either of the dropouts when installed after this conversion.

-Kurt
Thanks so much Kurt. Much appreciated. With regard to spacers, Should I just be looking for nuts that fill the dead space on the axle or is there something else like washers that I should be looking for.
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Old 07-14-20, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Petersrock View Post
Thanks so much Kurt. Much appreciated. With regard to spacers, Should I just be looking for nuts that fill the dead space on the axle or is there something else like washers that I should be looking for.
You don't want the spacers to have threads - that'll make it a PITA to adjust the bearings. Stacking a million washers...well, it's ugly.

Get yourself a few of these:
https://www.mcmaster.com/spacers/unt...crew-size~m10/

You can estimate the widths you need by taking your existing spacer and dividing it's width in half - though I wouldn't rely too much on that, as the locknut on the right side is larger than the one on the left. Wouldn't be a bad idea to get an assortment of spacers both 1 and 2 mm wider and narrower than the set you think you need, as you'll probably have to tinker with the overall hub offset to get it right. Remember, you don't want less than 120mm from locknut to locknut either, or you'll wind up with too much axle sticking out of the dropouts (and thus a quick-release lever that won't grab the dropout, resulting in your wheel slipping to the left constantly).
​​​​​​​
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Old 07-14-20, 09:41 AM
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I'm willing to bet that the axle here is 10mmX1, not 9.5mm or 3/8" and not 26tpi.

But wingnuts usually are 3/8" or 9.5mmx26tpi.

So use of most wingnuts will require that the axle and all of it's threaded hardware be of the same 3/8" or 9.5mm threaded diameter.

Most wingnuts aren't labeled, so test-fitting with different axles is required to find out what threading size and pitch that you have.
Many Ebay sellers won't be able to identify the axle threading accurately I've found, so be wary.

Using wingnuts, you only want to use a solid axle.

Many of these old Schwinn frames are spaced to 126mm to accommodate the Schwinn-Approved freewheels having a retention ring outside of the smallest cog.
This is good in that a 6s freewheel is more easily substituted. A 6s freewheel might even work on your hub as is, but you'll need for the face of the locknut to extend a generous 5mm or so past the face of the smallest cog in order for the chain to clear the derailer claw mounting bolt (but only if you'll be using a multiple-cog freewheel).
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Old 07-14-20, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Petersrock View Post
On my way to HF today to pick up a caliper. Im not a guessing type but Im just not sure how this works. Ive been reading everything I can to try to learn its not the easiest thing in the world to figure out when its your first time dealing with these vintage bikes. I will update with measurements this afternoon.


Another good tool to obtain is a magnifying glass. With the proper magnification you can easily count the number of threads per inch on most parts...........and............uh...................oh......................The biggest mistake you can make is to try and get the wrong size threads to fit together. Lots of nice frames have been screwed up when mechanics tried to kludge the wrong size bottom bracket on it. Be certain about your drivetrain threads before you start engaging the wrench. Grease up the threads and make sure your wrench flats make firm purchase on the part before you torgue it down. Be good. Have fun.
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Old 07-14-20, 07:48 PM
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OK...... forgot to reveal another secret trick thing. When counting threads under a magnifying glass. Get a sewing needle. Use it as a pointer. Makes it much easier to take a count.
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Old 07-14-20, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by dddd View Post
I'm willing to bet that the axle here is 10mmX1, not 9.5mm or 3/8" and not 26tpi.

But wingnuts usually are 3/8" or 9.5mmx26tpi.

So use of most wingnuts will require that the axle and all of it's threaded hardware be of the same 3/8" or 9.5mm threaded diameter.

Most wingnuts aren't labeled, so test-fitting with different axles is required to find out what threading size and pitch that you have.
Many Ebay sellers won't be able to identify the axle threading accurately I've found, so be wary.

Using wingnuts, you only want to use a solid axle.
^
Heed this for the axle. You won't get wingnuts on that quick release axle as it is.

And before someone suggests it, I wouldn't re-space the frame to re-use the existing axle. Get a solid axle based on dddd's advice, but first, find out what your axle diameter and threading is. You'll need that caliper (once again) to measure the diameter.

Also, get a screw pitch gauge to verify the threads if you want to save your sanity. Counting threads is ridiculous, especially when the possibilities are 24tpi, 25.4tpi (M10x1), or 26tpi, and the cost of admission is $9:
https://www.amazon.com/ChgImposs-Imp...ustrial&sr=1-3

(P.S.: If it doesn't fit 24tpi or 26tpi, you know it's 25.4tpi)

-Kurt
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Old 07-14-20, 09:08 PM
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Why is there a need for a solid axle? Why not just install the right skewer?
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Old 07-14-20, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by madpogue View Post
Why is there a need for a solid axle? Why not just install the right skewer?
The OP mentioned wanting to use wing nuts.
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