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Allternatives for Removal of a Dropout Adjusting Screw ?

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Allternatives for Removal of a Dropout Adjusting Screw ?

Old 07-17-20, 08:19 AM
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3alarmer
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Allternatives for Removal of a Dropout Adjusting Screw ?

.
...I have done maybe a dozen of these over the years, and I confess that my record of success is only about 60/40. For the ones that have some usable stub remaining, I've had success with double nutting the exterior portion, cutting off the interior part, and backing out the remains using heat and penetrating oil to free up the frozen ones. I've drilled a couple, but have no drill press. One of my sadder failures involved successfully drilling out the screw stub, but them managing to snap off a part of the hardened steel tap I was using to clean up the threads. Which was a stupid mistake, because I was doing it while tired, late in the evening. Dumb.

Plan B is to just use one of those screw clapm adjusters on this side, and a screw on the other side, which is fine. That screw is out now. This one doesn't leave much to work with, but there is a crooked stub on the inside (see photos), which might be amenable to gentle straightening and cutting a small slot in the end so I can use a screwdriver, with some heat and ATF/acetone mix.

Consider this a solicitation for suggestions or advice on your favorite method for doing this. Maybe I'm missing something ? I know a machine shop is probably a good option, but am trying to avoid that additional expense if I can.

I think that interior stub is the flattened end of a dropout screw that was inserted backwards. It's not the remains of a screw head. And that's threading, not the remains of a spring. So in the absence of something better, I will eventually try the straighten/cut slot/screwdriver method. Hoping this thread will yield the magic solution, because I run into it a lot lately.





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Old 07-17-20, 08:38 AM
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No magic solution here. Really depends on the bike. I have a Trek 400 that had one which would not come out, broke off so I left it. If it was a nice, high end bike like yours I would give it the professional treatment.
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Old 07-17-20, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by 3speedslow View Post
No magic solution here. Really depends on the bike. I have a Trek 400 that had one which would not come out, broke off so I left it. If it was a nice, high end bike like yours I would give it the professional treatment.
+1
Use the force (patience). If that bit coming out the back of the dropout is alright. I'd start by using the bent portion to slowly back it out with pliers. If it's not moving easily, penetrating oil and time, then pliers and a gentle hand.

I've only done one, but it had a pretty severe bend after the dropout, and moved freely. I just straightened the bolt and ran a die over it to un**** the threads in the bend. Then I ran a tap through the dropout to straighten any threads there.

Light some incense, breathe deeply, clear your mind, and feel the Zen. Then solve the problem with peace. 😌
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Old 07-17-20, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Unca_Sam View Post
+1
Use the force (patience). If that bit coming out the back of the dropout is alright. I'd start by using the bent portion to slowly back it out with pliers. If it's not moving easily, penetrating oil and time, then pliers and a gentle hand.

I've only done one, but it had a pretty severe bend after the dropout, and moved freely. I just straightened the bolt and ran a die over it to un**** the threads in the bend. Then I ran a tap through the dropout to straighten any threads there.

Light some incense, breathe deeply, clear your mind, and feel the Zen. Then solve the problem with peace. 😌
...I wanted magic, and you give me philosophy. I'm going for a ride.
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Old 07-17-20, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
...I wanted magic, and you give me philosophy. I'm going for a ride.
Also a good way to find Zen. Just breathing and cadence.
Ommmmm...🙏
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Old 07-17-20, 09:35 AM
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.
...I did play a torch on it, dribbled in some ATF/acetone, and gently (with the Buddha uppermost in mind) straightened the stub. It did not break, so the Force is thus far with me.
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Old 07-17-20, 09:54 AM
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e d m


(why won't it let me use caps?)
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Old 07-17-20, 11:01 AM
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This looks like an easy fix. Begin by straightening the part of the bolt that is inside the drop. A wee screwdriver and a wee bit of leverage will do the job. Now, screw the bole in as much as you can or need to. Next, cut off the offending part or just file it down. Then simply undo the screw from inside the drop. Done this many times, including just the other day on an old Torpado...


For removal of the drop screw, above, I undo the bolt until i hit a bent section. I then use the drop as a vice (sort of) and bend the bolt pretty straight. Then, simply unscrew.
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Old 07-17-20, 12:40 PM
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.
^^^This actually works pretty well, as long as the thing is free to turn. After my torch and ATF treatment, I returned from my ride and repeated this treatment. But whoever had installed these screws did so backward, with the head on the outside. So the problem was compounded by the absence of a screw slot on the inside screw end. I managed to establish a usable (if not ideal) slot with a triangular file, and it's almost out now. Thank you.




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Old 07-17-20, 12:58 PM
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Way to go. I go similar to Randy... that little stub out the back I just grind down so it can't interfere. Then patience and solvent/lubricating fluids, and tap, tap, tap... on outside of drop out, if theres corrosion. I think it helps oosen everthing.
Are you getting new decals? Your paint looks nice, better than mine.
Goog luck! Eric

Decided on the build yet? I keep going back and forth.... As it came to me except for modernisms, which are already long gone...Has TA cranks and Universal centerpulls now or do I step it up to a cleaner NR group... Such problems....
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Old 07-17-20, 02:38 PM
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Randy’s solution is what I used on my recent 74 Raleigh frame. Bring it inside till resistance, applie gentle straightening force, bring it inside again little by little you clear the back bent section. If not back it out some then file smooth then complete the removal.

Campy drop outs, gotta save them!
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Old 07-17-20, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
.
...I did play a torch on it, dribbled in some ATF/acetone, and gently (with the Buddha uppermost in mind) straightened the stub. It did not break, so the Force is thus far with me.
Gotta make sure to do it in that order. Playing the torch after dribbling in ATF/acetone might have an unintended consequence, although the acetone probably would evaporate within a few seconds. The Force is strong with this one!
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Old 07-17-20, 07:00 PM
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Triple Alarmer,
After it comes out I always use Stainless screws as a replacement which kind of keeps the rust binding down. I also always coat the threads with a light coat of grease and use a Dualco grease gun to shoot the inside of the drop out with grease to keep binding down as well. I don't still have your addy, but if you will PM it to me I can send you a pair. New nuts are bought on e-bay from VieVelo. (I wish I has a source for those in bulk!) Lemme know, MH
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Old 07-17-20, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Last ride 76 View Post
Way to go. I go similar to Randy... that little stub out the back I just grind down so it can't interfere. Then patience and solvent/lubricating fluids, and tap, tap, tap... on outside of drop out, if theres corrosion. I think it helps oosen everthing.
Are you getting new decals? Your paint looks nice, better than mine.
Goog luck! Eric

Decided on the build yet? I keep going back and forth.... As it came to me except for modernisms, which are already long gone...Has TA cranks and Universal centerpulls now or do I step it up to a cleaner NR group... Such problems....
...I ordered what H Lloyd is selling on their website yesterday for top and down tubes, and a couple of those seat tube bands for good measure. It's not like the original painted bands with lettering slides, but I'm planning on repairing all the paint owwies, and then I'll probably bury everything under urethane clear. So it ought to work out OK. It came with a mix of Suntour (brakes, levers, derailleurs), but still had the original Campy post, headset, and New Record crank. I have about four or five New Record front derailleurs hanging around not doing anything, so I might go mostly Campy, but keep the Suntour Superbe brakes (Campy copies, as far as I can tell).

The original hubs were long gone, with some kind of generic Shimano machine built wheel set. I have hubs that will fit, so probably a wheel project over the winter before it's finished. I have wheels I can stick on there in the meantime, if I get it painted and put back together.

The guy I bought it from has had it for a while, and said it was a dump find (by a friend of his) down near a military base not too far from Modesto.

There were a lot of nice bikes brought back during the Air Force flying days in the Central Valley. I guess this might be one of those.
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Old 07-17-20, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Mad Honk View Post
Triple Alarmer,
After it comes out I always use Stainless screws as a replacement which kind of keeps the rust binding down. I also always coat the threads with a light coat of grease and use a Dualco grease gun to shoot the inside of the drop out with grease to keep binding down as well. I don't still have your addy, but if you will PM it to me I can send you a pair. New nuts are bought on e-bay from VieVelo. (I wish I has a source for those in bulk!) Lemme know, MH
...thanks, but I'm fat on these screws. One week I got peeved about what they cost on the internet, so I j went down to my local industrial fasteners guy and got him to order me up a hundred stainless ones in the longer length you need for these longer drops. Then I modified one hole in an electricians plier/crimper (the ones you use to shorten screws), with a metric tap. So I can shorten them for shorter dropouts. I don't have springs, but find I don't need them, and I just double nut the outside end with some brass hex nuts, so I can turn them by hand.
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Old 07-17-20, 07:23 PM
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HLloyd def seems to be the go-to. Interesting life history there. Mine came from the daughter of the original owner.
She used it to commute for years to college and grad. school. Career lead to car and
​​​​​a modern bike. Lucky me.
Want to sell/trade a dozen of those screws? I have some but need more...
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Old 07-17-20, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Last ride 76 View Post
HLloyd def seems to be the go-to. Interesting life history there. Mine came from the daughter of the original owner.
She used it to commute for years to college and grad. school. Career lead to car and
​​​​​a modern bike. Lucky me.
Want to sell/trade a dozen of those screws? I have some but need more...
...you should check locally first. These guys ordered me up a hundred of them in stainless (I had a choice of socket head or Phillips head) and the total came to probably about 12 bucks. IME almost every place in the US has a similar business or several of them, because that's where all the people who do construction, light manufacturing, and auto and machine repair all go to get their stuff. It's a standard 3M x 0.5 machine screw. The socket head ones are kind of cool, because easier to install without the screwdriver slipping around. Make sure you understand whether what you are ordering is threaded all the way to the head, because some of them are not. And I'm using brass hex nuts, double nutted on the exterior as my adjusting knob, but you can get the other ones that are round and knurled ...they are just more special and so more pricey.

If you have no luck, PM me and tell me what sort of length you are looking for. Otherwise, I might send you something that is too long for your intended use.
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Old 07-17-20, 09:42 PM
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Thx, I'll do that. I usually just don't bother, I'm not paying up for annoying repro stuff. I'm not exactly doing "seconds count" type wheel changes, my thumbs are sufficient, but it's time to put some stuff up for sale... I'm a dab hand with a cutoff wheel, and dremel.
If you happen to know of, or find paint or enamel that matches Holdsworth orange, please LMK. Matching colors is not one of my strong suits, I usually do ok eventually, more from stubbornness than skill.
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Old 07-17-20, 10:41 PM
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Sorry to be late to the party and to sidetrack the conversation - but in 3alarmer's case, there appeared to be just enough adjuster screw there to tack weld a 5 or 6mm nut onto it with a MIG welder - and then pray a deep socket will give you enough leverage as it tries to bend and twist coming out.

Not an option if you don't have the welder, but an alternate thought. Might be a valid idea for a really stuck one.

-Kurt
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Old 07-18-20, 10:05 AM
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hey! did you just get that out near Modesto! beat me to it! if you ever get bored of her...
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Old 07-18-20, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Last ride 76 View Post
Thx, I'll do that. I usually just don't bother, I'm not paying up for annoying repro stuff. I'm not exactly doing "seconds count" type wheel changes, my thumbs are sufficient, but it's time to put some stuff up for sale... I'm a dab hand with a cutoff wheel, and dremel.
If you happen to know of, or find paint or enamel that matches Holdsworth orange, please LMK. Matching colors is not one of my strong suits, I usually do ok eventually, more from stubbornness than skill.
Porsche Signal Orange.

https://paintref.com/cgi-bin/colorco...=50&size=large

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Old 07-18-20, 11:00 AM
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I was able to drill out a set of these, once. I was extremely lucky. Once I got about halfway the bit caught the screw and turned it out.

I also once used a rolled up bath towel and snapped the head off a fly in mid-flight.

I think the odds of repeating both are the same order of magnitude.
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Old 07-18-20, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Ex Pres View Post
e d m
+1 this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electr...arge_machining

If you really need to get those out and are willing to spend a little, EDM is the way to go.

Otherwise, those bolts serve little practical purpose outside of competitive racing, where they facilitate quick wheel changes. Break 'em off flush with the dropout and pretend they never existed.
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Old 07-18-20, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Wileyone View Post
...thanks for this. I was just experimenting with some colors I have on hand, and the closest I could get was an undercoat of light yellow with a final coat of true orange, both from Rustoleum. But if I can get something that is not quite so iffy in terms of ease of application, that's gonna be a lot better.
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Old 07-19-20, 04:22 AM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
...thanks for this. I was just experimenting with some colors I have on hand, and the closest I could get was an undercoat of light yellow with a final coat of true orange, both from Rustoleum. But if I can get something that is not quite so iffy in terms of ease of application, that's gonna be a lot better.
Make sure you use an off white primer. I use Max 2k Epoxy primer/filler (excellent stuff). A darker primer will make the orange too dark.
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