Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

First Raleigh Rebuild Nightmare

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

First Raleigh Rebuild Nightmare

Old 07-18-20, 08:32 AM
  #1  
edlt
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
First Raleigh Rebuild Nightmare

I recently bought a Raleigh Stratos (see below) as a project to keep me busy during lockdown.
This is my first time taking a bike apart so I need some advice.

the bike has a Maillard 3983 hub with 6spd cassette.
When I removed the skewer from the rear wheel half of the axel fell out from the drive side followed by the bearings. There were no dust caps fitted, just the axel being held in place by the skewer and the bike frame. Is this normal?

I did not have to remove the cassette or anything else just the skewer and the axel fell straight out the hub.

Images are in my gallery. Any advice is appreciated.

Last edited by edlt; 07-18-20 at 08:46 AM.
edlt is offline  
Old 07-18-20, 08:44 AM
  #2  
daverup 
Senior Member
 
daverup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Michigan USA
Posts: 106

Bikes: 86 Centurion Ironman, 78 Schwinn Super LeTour 12.2, 83 Schwinn Le Tour, 89 Diamondback Axis XT, 94 Schwinn Crosscut, 95 Trek 930, 2016 Rocky Mountain Blizzard, 1994 Rans Tailwind, Couple of early 80's Mixte's, Dahon Speed 7

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked 49 Times in 27 Posts
You need 10 posts for picture attachment. Your pics uploaded to your gallery,
https://www.bikeforums.net/g/album/18541657

It looks like you need a new axle
daverup is offline  
Old 07-18-20, 08:52 AM
  #3  
Pars 
Senior Member
 
Pars's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Aurora, IL
Posts: 2,453

Bikes: '73 Raleigh RRA, 1986 Trek 500 commuter

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked 12 Times in 8 Posts
The axle is a single piece. In your picture, you can see where yours snapped just left of the left cone.

Pars is offline  
Likes For Pars:
Old 07-18-20, 08:56 AM
  #4  
Unca_Sam
The dropped
 
Unca_Sam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 1,489

Bikes: Pake C'Mute Touring/Commuter Build, 1989 Kona Cinder Cone, 1995 Trek 5200

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1084 Post(s)
Liked 481 Times in 351 Posts
Originally Posted by edlt View Post
I recently bought a Raleigh Stratos (see below) as a project to keep me busy during lockdown.
This is my first time taking a bike apart so I need some advice.

the bike has a Maillard 3983 hub with 6spd cassette.
When I removed the skewer from the rear wheel half of the axel fell out from the drive side followed by the bearings. There were no dust caps fitted, just the axel being held in place by the skewer and the bike frame. Is this normal?

I did not have to remove the cassette or anything else just the skewer and the axel fell straight out the hub
Your axle is definitely broken! This is a weakness of freewheel hubs. Dust caps are not guaranteed a feature, especially for lower cost wheels. I learned recently that cone locknuts weren't guaranteed on lower cost 26" wheels.

Do you have a caliper? You'll need to measure the axle diameter to buy a replacement, but look over the other wheel components first. If the cones have pits, or the cups, or if the rim is more than a little out of round, or needs lots of truing, buying a replacement axle is unwise. Buy a new wheel spaced for your bike's dropouts then.
Unca_Sam is online now  
Likes For Unca_Sam:
Old 07-18-20, 08:58 AM
  #5  
Narhay
Senior Member
 
Narhay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Posts: 3,285
Mentioned: 96 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 773 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 219 Times in 147 Posts
You have a broken axle. Measure the inside of the rear dropouts to determine what length skewer you need. For 6 speed it is like 126mm but check first. Once you know that the axle will be about 4.5mm longer on either side to sit in the dropouts so you'll want a 135mm axle or so if the bike is indeed 126mm. Or, measure the old axle end to end. You can reuse the cones, locknuts and spacers on the new axle as they should be the same standard threading for this kind of bike. Clean up the cones and the inside of the hub first to make sure someone riding the broken axle hasnt damaged it. If it is damaged you may need a new rear wheel or replacement parts.

Axles come in two varieties, solid and hollow for a quick release. You'll want the hollow one as you already have the quick release.
Narhay is offline  
Likes For Narhay:
Old 07-18-20, 09:12 AM
  #6  
branko_76 
Senior Member
 
branko_76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: The Urban Shores Of Michigami
Posts: 1,175

Bikes: ........................................ .....Holdsworth "Special"..... .......Falcon "Special".......... .....Raleigh "Super GP"...... ........................................

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 458 Post(s)
Liked 326 Times in 221 Posts
edlt , is it a cassette or freewheel? What is the written on it?
branko_76 is offline  
Old 07-18-20, 09:18 AM
  #7  
Reynolds 
Passista
 
Reynolds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,916

Bikes: 1998 Pinarello Asolo, 1992 KHS Montaña pro, 1980 Raleigh DL-1, IGH Hybrid, IGH Utility

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 607 Post(s)
Liked 188 Times in 124 Posts
It's a freewheel hub, that's why the axle broke there - the right cone is not against the dropout but has spacers.
​​​​​​
Reynolds is offline  
Old 07-18-20, 10:32 AM
  #8  
edlt
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thank you for your great advice. That is exactly what I needed to know. I have ordered a new axel.

I have another issue. My freewheel is making a grinding noise when spinning.

Please could you advice what could be causing the noise (I suspect bearings need a good clean and new grease)

Does anybody know what type of tool will remove this freewheel I have never seen it before. I will upload an image to my gallery.

Last edited by edlt; 07-18-20 at 10:37 AM.
edlt is offline  
Old 07-18-20, 10:49 AM
  #9  
dedhed
SE Wis
 
dedhed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 6,793

Bikes: '68 Raleigh Sprite, '02 Raleigh C500, '84 Raleigh Gran Prix, '91 Trek 400

Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1295 Post(s)
Liked 702 Times in 483 Posts
Looks like a 2 prong tool required. You'll need to bolt the tool in place so it doesn't slip.




https://www.parktool.com/product/freewheel-remover-fr-2
dedhed is offline  
Old 07-18-20, 10:54 AM
  #10  
non-fixie 
Shifting is fun!
 
non-fixie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: South Holland, NL
Posts: 8,902

Bikes: Yes, please.

Mentioned: 224 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1434 Post(s)
Liked 845 Times in 463 Posts
You need a two-prong freewheel remover, such as the Park Tool FR-2.

After you get it off, flush the freewheel with WD40 until clean, then re-lube with oil.

Google this forum for instructions.
__________________
Wikkid Wrenching Widdim #63: Idle Burg
non-fixie is offline  
Old 07-18-20, 02:23 PM
  #11  
steelbikeguy
Senior Member
 
steelbikeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Peoria, IL
Posts: 2,004
Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 688 Post(s)
Liked 226 Times in 139 Posts
a quick note.. it's not a good idea to ride with a bent or broken rear axle, since it tends to concentrate the bearing load in a small section of the hub's bearing cup. This can cause extreme wear of the cup, or in some cases, cause the cup to crack where the bearings run. It would be good to clean out the grease and closely examine the cup. If the cup is badly worn or cracked, the hub is probably shot/trashed.

Steve in Peoria (been there, done that)
steelbikeguy is offline  
Likes For steelbikeguy:
Old 07-18-20, 03:00 PM
  #12  
non-fixie 
Shifting is fun!
 
non-fixie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: South Holland, NL
Posts: 8,902

Bikes: Yes, please.

Mentioned: 224 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1434 Post(s)
Liked 845 Times in 463 Posts
A broken rear axle was the very first technical issue I ever had with a vintage bike, in 2009. Google brought me to this forum ...
__________________
Wikkid Wrenching Widdim #63: Idle Burg
non-fixie is offline  
Old 07-18-20, 04:48 PM
  #13  
3speedslow
Senior Member
 
3speedslow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Jacksonville, NC
Posts: 8,241

Bikes: A few

Mentioned: 110 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1571 Post(s)
Liked 363 Times in 268 Posts
Trouble rebuilding a Raleigh, come stand over here in the Long line!
3speedslow is offline  
Old 07-18-20, 05:08 PM
  #14  
Salamandrine 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 6,150

Bikes: 78 Masi Criterium, 68 PX10, 2016 Mercian King of Mercia, Rivendell Clem Smith Jr

Mentioned: 118 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2252 Post(s)
Liked 460 Times in 346 Posts
RE the freewheel: it cannot be removed without reassembling the hub first. The freewheel tool must be held on very firmly by a tightened quick release skewer.

Best to do it with a non broken axle, but it could be reassembled as it is. Try to get most of the bearings back in at least temporarily.
Salamandrine is offline  
Old 07-18-20, 05:21 PM
  #15  
3alarmer
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Tomato
Posts: 18,892

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 259 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18533 Post(s)
Liked 2,079 Times in 1,527 Posts
.
...just a heads up : it's likely gonna be problematic removing that freewheel to work on the hub and flush the freewheel. Which is what I would do were I working on this wheel.
The standard practice in using one of those old tw pron removers is to hold it on the freewheel using the axle and QR skewer, which you don't have on there now.

You can use a long bolt, a couple of large fender washers sized for your bolt, but large enough to cover the openings on both sides, and a nut that holds it all together.
Even then, a freewheel that's been in place a long time, and was originally installed without benefit of grease or anti-sieze on the threads, can be very vexing to remove.

The best penetrant is a 50/50 mix of ATF and acetone, but Freeze Off is also pretty good. You need to apply it in the crevice between the hub and the freewheel, in back, for maximum effect. If you have a Mapp gas or propane torch, it doesn't hurt to heat and cool the hub right there where the freewheel screws on. Finally, you can use a wrench on the removal tool, but most people get more leverage placing he flats of the tool in a decent, solidly mounted bench vise, and grabbing the wheel to turn it and break loose the freewheel.

If you don't have the tool solidly attached in the freewheel slots, it will jump out and damage the slots (and eventually the tool). It's one of the more frustrating aspects of that design, which was supplanted by others with better interfacing.
3alarmer is offline  
Old 07-18-20, 05:31 PM
  #16  
JohnDThompson 
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 21,702

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 126 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2233 Post(s)
Liked 627 Times in 421 Posts
Originally Posted by edlt View Post
the bike has a Maillard 3983 hub with 6spd cassette.
When I removed the skewer from the rear wheel half of the axel fell out from the drive side followed by the bearings. There were no dust caps fitted, just the axel being held in place by the skewer and the bike frame. Is this normal?

I did not have to remove the cassette or anything else just the skewer and the axel fell straight out the hub.


As others noted, you have a broken axle. A decent bike shop should be able to source a suitable replacement.

N.B. the axle in the picture indicates that you have a freewheel hub, not a cassette hub.
JohnDThompson is offline  
Old 07-18-20, 05:35 PM
  #17  
Salamandrine 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 6,150

Bikes: 78 Masi Criterium, 68 PX10, 2016 Mercian King of Mercia, Rivendell Clem Smith Jr

Mentioned: 118 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2252 Post(s)
Liked 460 Times in 346 Posts
I think it's better and faster to reassemble the hub and remove the freewheel the conventional way. It is a little tricky but not impossible. Glop some grease in there to hold the ball bearings. Doesn't matter if a couple are missing at this point. Be sure to take the springs off the QR first. As noted earlier, google for more detailed instructions.

I've removed a lot of freewheels from hubs with broken axles, and it isn't that big of a deal.

For sure I agree soak it with some penetrant etc. They can be stubborn. People who put freewheels on with insufficient grease should... (deleted... )
Salamandrine is offline  
Old 07-18-20, 05:35 PM
  #18  
JohnDThompson 
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 21,702

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 126 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2233 Post(s)
Liked 627 Times in 421 Posts
Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
RE the freewheel: it cannot be removed without reassembling the hub first. The freewheel tool must be held on very firmly by a tightened quick release skewer.
That depends on the freewheel. If it's one of the two-prong variety, e.g. SunTour, old-style Regina, and such like, then yes, you need to be able to secure the remover tool against the freewheel body.

If the freewheel uses a splined remover, e.g. Atom, Normandy, new-style Regina, most Shimano, etc., then it is usually possible to remove the freewheel even in the absence of the hub axle.

Last edited by JohnDThompson; 07-18-20 at 05:40 PM. Reason: Looked at the gallery pic of the freewheel; it's a SunTour "Winner" two-prong unit. So yes, reassembly will be needed.
JohnDThompson is offline  
Old 07-18-20, 05:46 PM
  #19  
Salamandrine 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 6,150

Bikes: 78 Masi Criterium, 68 PX10, 2016 Mercian King of Mercia, Rivendell Clem Smith Jr

Mentioned: 118 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2252 Post(s)
Liked 460 Times in 346 Posts
Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
That depends on the freewheel. If it's one of the two-prong variety, e.g. SunTour, old-style Regina, and such like, then yes, you need to be able to secure the remover tool against the freewheel body.

If the freewheel uses a splined remover, e.g. Atom, Normandy, new-style Regina, most Shimano, etc., then it is usually possible to remove the freewheel even in the absence of the hub axle.
Yep, that is true. Not needed for splined freewheels.

On rare occasions I'd use a skewer even with a splined freewheel. If they were super stuck and you are applying a lot of force, it makes things a little more secure. It's also helpful if you are using a big wrench and not a bench vise, to keep the tool from falling out.
Salamandrine is offline  
Old 07-18-20, 05:52 PM
  #20  
merziac
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 6,229

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 128 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1858 Post(s)
Liked 794 Times in 568 Posts
Originally Posted by 3speedslow View Post
Trouble rebuilding a Raleigh, come stand over here in the Long line!
Then come stand in the "I got this line" after working through that long line.
merziac is offline  
Old 07-18-20, 06:10 PM
  #21  
3speedslow
Senior Member
 
3speedslow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Jacksonville, NC
Posts: 8,241

Bikes: A few

Mentioned: 110 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1571 Post(s)
Liked 363 Times in 268 Posts
Originally Posted by merziac View Post
Then come stand in the "I got this line" after working through that long line.
In Russia, we stand in line before we even know what it is about!
3speedslow is offline  
Old 07-18-20, 06:12 PM
  #22  
merziac
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 6,229

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 128 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1858 Post(s)
Liked 794 Times in 568 Posts
Originally Posted by edlt View Post
I recently bought a Raleigh Stratos (see below) as a project to keep me busy during lockdown.
This is my first time taking a bike apart so I need some advice.

the bike has a Maillard 3983 hub with 6spd cassette.
When I removed the skewer from the rear wheel half of the axel fell out from the drive side followed by the bearings. There were no dust caps fitted, just the axel being held in place by the skewer and the bike frame. Is this normal?

I did not have to remove the cassette or anything else just the skewer and the axel fell straight out the hub.

Images are in my gallery. Any advice is appreciated.
So none of this really falls squarely in the "nightmare" category imho.

It will however be a valuable learning experience, which is good for skill building and will make other problems less so.

Stuck stems, seatposts, DS BB cups, cross, stripped threads and such can be real nightmares.

You're in the right place, we'll get you through all of this and more as you can probably already tell.

Patience is key, take a breath, have a beer or whatever, gather your chi and get good correct tools for the task at hand, you got this.
merziac is offline  
Likes For merziac:
Old 07-18-20, 06:15 PM
  #23  
3speedslow
Senior Member
 
3speedslow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Jacksonville, NC
Posts: 8,241

Bikes: A few

Mentioned: 110 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1571 Post(s)
Liked 363 Times in 268 Posts
I was wondering why I started beer drinking after I got my Raleigh frame...
3speedslow is offline  
Old 07-18-20, 06:44 PM
  #24  
dddd
Ride, Wrench, Swap, Race
 
dddd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 7,500

Bikes: Cheltenham-Pederson racer, Boulder F/S Paris-Roubaix, Varsity racer, '52 Christophe, '62 Continental, '92 Merckx, '75 Limongi, '76 Presto, '72 Gitane SC, '71 Schwinn SS, etc.

Mentioned: 104 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 911 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 304 Times in 233 Posts
The dust cover under the freewheel is likely still there, but probably now enlarged from riding on the broken axle with the cone pushing against the dust cover opening.

I advise using the longest wrench possible or a bench vise to hold the tool while the wheel is turned leftward. I use an 18" wrench for example, with the tire gripping the ground as I apply downward force to the wrench. Don't give yourself a hernia!

Shorter wrenches put so much side-loading on the tool and the prongs that failure of the prong interface (or outright cracking of the tool) is more likely in cases of the freewheel being very difficult to turn.

Freewheels self-tighten in use to a high degree of torque. Yours appears to have traditional "road" gearing so should not be very difficult to remove (relatively speaking if one has removed a few freewheels already).

Be sure to grease the freewheel threads well upon reassembly!

WD40 is a good fluid to wash through the freewheel bearings, but follow up with heavier oil and allow to drain on a rag for a good while in a warm place in the sun. Hopefully this one isn't rusted inside and so turns smoothly after flushing.

Lastly take note that the rear derailer does not move/tilt as the quick-release is tightened down on the newly-rebuilt axle.
If there is significant movement of this kind, the dropout of the frame has likely been bent from the sharp tilting of the broken axle. Bend back carefully using a large adjustable wrench in the needed direction, and be sure to clamp the wrench down on both the upper and lower run of the dropout (to both sides of the dropout axle slot).
dddd is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.