Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Brake Upgrade - Are Dual Pivot Calipers a Noticeable Difference?

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Brake Upgrade - Are Dual Pivot Calipers a Noticeable Difference?

Old 07-18-20, 02:26 PM
  #1  
tNuvolari
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 134

Bikes: 1986 Torpado Beta, 2006 Wilier Triestina Izoard

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 61 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 14 Times in 12 Posts
Brake Upgrade - Are Dual Pivot Calipers a Noticeable Difference?

Upgrading my 80's Torpado and now that the index shifting is up and working, I've been wanting better braking. I have 90's Athena brakes which I love in terms of aesthetics but good looks don't stop bikes. I've upgraded the fronts to Kool Stop orange pads which helped but it just seems that the calipers don't have the strength needed to stop as quickly as I'd prefer. Don't get me wrong, they will stop but they seem to require a ton of finger effort. Maybe I'm just weak fingered but I'm just curious about dual pivot instead of my older design. What is the main advantage to dual pivot design? I assume it's in the strength and stiffness so that would improve the feel as well as the overall braking ability but I don't really know much about them.
I'm thinking of trying a random cheap Campy dual pivot front brake to experiment and see but any knowledge you guys can share would be appreciated. I like the skeleton brakes. Also, I've become interested in the Ciamillo Zero Gravity (the low end ones and not the crazy carbon ones) calipers. I think I could be happy with just a front and then leave my rear Athena alone or just add better pads. And with lots of Ebay choices, used brakes aren't that bad, especially just for a lone front.
So I would love to hear from those who have used both single pivot and dual pivot and what they think of the two.

Many thanks.



Beautiful, but are dual pivots better? Kool Stops did improve braking.

Rear Athena can probably stay but with Kool Stops.

Side view of the rear brake.


Added to show my levers aren't old school Athenas but 10 speed Ergos which I would think are modern enough not be causing issues.

Last edited by tNuvolari; 07-18-20 at 03:54 PM.
tNuvolari is offline  
Likes For tNuvolari:
Old 07-18-20, 02:42 PM
  #2  
Salamandrine 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 6,287

Bikes: 78 Masi Criterium, 68 PX10, 2016 Mercian King of Mercia, Rivendell Clem Smith Jr

Mentioned: 120 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2311 Post(s)
Liked 563 Times in 404 Posts
Are you trying to stop from the hoods position? Vintage sidepull brakes were not designed for that. They are meant to be braked from the drops. Move to the drops, then brake. People did brake from the hoods, but really only to feather their speed for the most part.

If you prefer to brake in the modern style, yes, replace the calipers with dual pivots, and replace the levers as well.
Salamandrine is offline  
Likes For Salamandrine:
Old 07-18-20, 03:04 PM
  #3  
scarlson 
Senior Member
 
scarlson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Medford MA
Posts: 1,351

Bikes: Ron Cooper touring, 1959 Jack Taylor 650b ladyback touring tandem, Vitus 979, Joe Bell painted Claud Butler Dalesman, Colin Laing curved tube tandem, heavily-Dilberted 1982 Trek 6xx, René Herse tandem

Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 594 Post(s)
Liked 730 Times in 413 Posts
After touring for months in Switzerland and Wales with Nuovo Record brakes, stuffing my ears with cotton on the downhills to keep from going deaf with the squeal and white knuckling my touring load to a stop inches before each cattle grid before warming my cramping hands on the steaming rims, I decided enough was enough. I only use cantilevers and center pulls forevermore. Life is too short to bother with components that don't satisfy you!

And sidepulls never satisfy me, even though I have very strong hands. You have to decide what satisfies you! I've set up a lot of bikes with dual-pivots, and they seem to work better with less hand effort, even with the same levers. Centerpulls also, although they'll be heavier and not as pretty with the rest of your campy setup. If you put some dual-pivots or centerpulls on, you'll likely have more mechanical advantage. Modern, aero levers also give you a bit more mechanical advantage, if you aren't already using them. But those Athena brakes do look cool.

I also notice your pads are at the bottom of the slots, because you've got quite a bit of clearance between the rim and the fork crown/rear bridge. This means you'll have less mechanical advantage than if the frame had less clearance. It certainly doesn't help, in my experience. Some longer-reach centerpulls had longer arms to make up for this. I think some modern dual-pivot sidepulls are the same way.
__________________
Owner & co-founder, Cycles René Hubris. Unfortunately attaching questionable braze-ons to perfectly good frames since about 2015. With style.

Last edited by scarlson; 07-18-20 at 03:28 PM.
scarlson is offline  
Old 07-18-20, 03:19 PM
  #4  
John E
feros ferio
 
John E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Posts: 20,477

Bikes: 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo; 1960 Capo Sieger (2); 1962 Carlton Franco Suisse; 1970 Peugeot UO-8; 1982 Bianchi Campione d'Italia; 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10;

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 993 Post(s)
Liked 417 Times in 303 Posts
The best way to improve your braking is to use aero brake levers, modern low-compression cable housings, and KoolStop brake pads.

As for the calipers themselves, the only factors that count are leverage and stiffness, plus brake pad toe-in.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
John E is offline  
Old 07-18-20, 03:45 PM
  #5  
tNuvolari
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 134

Bikes: 1986 Torpado Beta, 2006 Wilier Triestina Izoard

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 61 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 14 Times in 12 Posts
Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
Are you trying to stop from the hoods position? Vintage sidepull brakes were not designed for that. They are meant to be braked from the drops. Move to the drops, then brake. People did brake from the hoods, but really only to feather their speed for the most part.

If you prefer to brake in the modern style, yes, replace the calipers with dual pivots, and replace the levers as well.
Yes, all from the hoods. I have Ergo 10 speed levers which didn't really change much if anything in the braking. Strangely, the rear effort feels fine although I know the front effort needs to be a lot more for effective braking.
Not sure if I'm just getting too old these days but it's quite difficult for me to be on the drops, mostly due to feel. It feels like I'm bent over so far that it's tough to even strain my neck up to see. And my bars aren't crazy low either, especially compared to many bikes I see on this site. I suppose my bars are about 2 inches lower than the top of the saddle.

Originally Posted by scarlson View Post
Life is too short to bother with components that don't satisfy you!

And sidepulls never satisfy me, even though I have very strong hands. You have to decide what satisfies you! I've set up a lot of bikes with dual-pivots, and they seem to work better with less hand effort, even with the same levers. Centerpulls also, although they'll be heavier and not as pretty with the rest of your campy setup. If you put some dual-pivots or centerpulls on, you'll likely have more mechanical advantage. But those Athena brakes do look cool.
Ha, don't they, though? I guess if I remove the Athena caliper, I can set it on my desk and just stare at it!

I think I'll give some dual pivots a try. That's a relatively painless action. I've seen campy Ebay dual pivot brakes starting at $15 although they won't have compatible pads with my Athenas so then I'll probably want the orange Kool Stops....
And just like an orange carrot dangling in front of me, down the rabbit hole of better braking will I go!
tNuvolari is offline  
Old 07-18-20, 03:51 PM
  #6  
tNuvolari
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 134

Bikes: 1986 Torpado Beta, 2006 Wilier Triestina Izoard

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 61 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 14 Times in 12 Posts
Oh, so something strange just now. I was checking the lever pull of my front brake and when I squeezed the lever tight against the rim, I kept squeezing to feel the flex and cable stretch and when I released, the pads are further away then before the action. So I readjusted and tried again. Same thing. I figured the cable was pulling out from the caliper so I marked it but it's not pulling out at all. So where is this extra play coming from? It does it every time I pull the lever hard. All I can think is that the casing isn't all the way in the lever housing but is kept mostly tight due to handlebar tape wrap and then when really pulling, it moves a bit. What else might cause this problem?
tNuvolari is offline  
Old 07-18-20, 03:57 PM
  #7  
ofajen
Cheerfully low end
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 832
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 242 Post(s)
Liked 331 Times in 222 Posts
Originally Posted by tNuvolari View Post
Yes, all from the hoods. I have Ergo 10 speed levers which didn't really change much if anything in the braking. Strangely, the rear effort feels fine although I know the front effort needs to be a lot more for effective braking.
Not sure if I'm just getting too old these days but it's quite difficult for me to be on the drops, mostly due to feel. It feels like I'm bent over so far that it's tough to even strain my neck up to see. And my bars aren't crazy low either, especially compared to many bikes I see on this site. I suppose my bars are about 2 inches lower than the top of the saddle.
Have you considered raising your bars? Sounds like they are low enough that you may be sacrificing some of their utility, if the drop position isn’t viable.

Otto
ofajen is offline  
Old 07-18-20, 03:58 PM
  #8  
Salamandrine 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 6,287

Bikes: 78 Masi Criterium, 68 PX10, 2016 Mercian King of Mercia, Rivendell Clem Smith Jr

Mentioned: 120 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2311 Post(s)
Liked 563 Times in 404 Posts
Originally Posted by tNuvolari View Post
Yes, all from the hoods. I have Ergo 10 speed levers which didn't really change much if anything in the braking. Strangely, the rear effort feels fine although I know the front effort needs to be a lot more for effective braking.
Not sure if I'm just getting too old these days but it's quite difficult for me to be on the drops, mostly due to feel. It feels like I'm bent over so far that it's tough to even strain my neck up to see. And my bars aren't crazy low either, especially compared to many bikes I see on this site. I suppose my bars are about 2 inches lower than the top of the saddle.
If that's the case for sure swap out the calipers for some dual pivots. You are halfway there since you have ergo levers already, but IMO it still isn't safe to be braking from the hoods with old school single pivots, at least on any sort of descent or emergency situation. The higher mechanical advantage of dual pivots will immediately be noticeable. Be advised that they can be kind of annoying if you run fatter tires and/or fenders. Silver Campagnolo dual pivot "skeleton" calipers would look nice on your bike IMO. I think they may be discontinued but there's probably some floating around.

Centerpulls would do the trick too, but they're a little out of place for your bike.
Salamandrine is offline  
Old 07-18-20, 04:01 PM
  #9  
Salamandrine 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 6,287

Bikes: 78 Masi Criterium, 68 PX10, 2016 Mercian King of Mercia, Rivendell Clem Smith Jr

Mentioned: 120 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2311 Post(s)
Liked 563 Times in 404 Posts
Originally Posted by tNuvolari View Post
Oh, so something strange just now. I was checking the lever pull of my front brake and when I squeezed the lever tight against the rim, I kept squeezing to feel the flex and cable stretch and when I released, the pads are further away then before the action. So I readjusted and tried again. Same thing. I figured the cable was pulling out from the caliper so I marked it but it's not pulling out at all. So where is this extra play coming from? It does it every time I pull the lever hard. All I can think is that the casing isn't all the way in the lever housing but is kept mostly tight due to handlebar tape wrap and then when really pulling, it moves a bit. What else might cause this problem?
That can be caused by two things. First is a loose cable fixing nut. Second, and more likely, is that there is some place where a ferrule should have been used to cap a housing end, but was not. The housing tries to squish itself into a hole instead of stopping whenever you squeeze the brakes. This is something that needs to be fixed pronto.

Oh, and third, verify that derailleur housing was not used as brake housing by mistake. People do this sometimes, and it also will cause the same problem.
Salamandrine is offline  
Likes For Salamandrine:
Old 07-18-20, 04:06 PM
  #10  
ridelikeaturtle
Senior Member
 
ridelikeaturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 1,179

Bikes: Bianchi Ti Megatube; Colnago Competition; Planet-X EC-130E; Klein Pulse; Amp Research B4; Litespeed Catalyst; Fondriest Squadra Corse; Trek Y11

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 551 Post(s)
Liked 366 Times in 217 Posts
I found a big difference between old Weinmann single pivot calipers, and modern Tektro dual pivots.

I find less difference between nice single pivot Dia Compe Royal Compe with good pads, and modern dual pivots, but there's still a difference.
ridelikeaturtle is offline  
Old 07-18-20, 04:14 PM
  #11  
tNuvolari
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 134

Bikes: 1986 Torpado Beta, 2006 Wilier Triestina Izoard

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 61 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 14 Times in 12 Posts
Originally Posted by ofajen View Post
Have you considered raising your bars? Sounds like they are low enough that you may be sacrificing some of their utility, if the drop position isn’t viable.
Otto
Yeah, I did think about that but I have a treadless adapter which I don't think will allow much more height. I'll check it out. Also, I keep raising my saddle a little at a time and each time feels better even though I haven't grown in height in 30 years! Maybe my legs are stretching....

Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
If that's the case for sure swap out the calipers for some dual pivots. You are halfway there since you have ergo levers already, but IMO it still isn't safe to be braking from the hoods with old school single pivots, at least on any sort of descent or emergency situation. The higher mechanical advantage of dual pivots will immediately be noticeable. Be advised that they can be kind of annoying if you run fatter tires and/or fenders. Silver Campagnolo dual pivot "skeleton" calipers would look nice on your bike IMO. I think they may be discontinued but there's probably some floating around.
Centerpulls would do the trick too, but they're a little out of place for your bike.
Yeah, I like the silver skeletons and don't even mind the black ones either. The non skeletons from the 10 speed years aren't very attractive but they are cheap. Great braking is beautiful though so not going to worry too much about the looks....



Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
That can be caused by two things. First is a loose cable fixing nut. Second, and more likely, is that there is some place where a ferrule should have been used to cap a housing end, but was not. The housing tries to squish itself into a hole instead of stopping whenever you squeeze the brakes. This is something that needs to be fixed pronto.
Oh, and third, verify that derailleur housing was not used as brake housing by mistake. People do this sometimes, and it also will cause the same problem.
IIRC Campy do not specify a ferrule inside the hoods for the casing ends but that could be it. I'm almost positive I got the cable placement correct. Thanks for the info; I'll check it out right now.
tNuvolari is offline  
Old 07-18-20, 04:24 PM
  #12  
squirtdad
Senior Member
 
squirtdad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Jose (Willow Glen) Ca
Posts: 7,614

Bikes: 85 team Miyata (modern 5800 105) , '84 Team Miyata,(dura ace old school) '82 nishiski,

Mentioned: 73 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1387 Post(s)
Liked 687 Times in 475 Posts
IME yes modern dual pivot are a huge upgrade to any single pivot brake
__________________
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
squirtdad is offline  
Likes For squirtdad:
Old 07-18-20, 04:33 PM
  #13  
merziac
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 8,117

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 162 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2449 Post(s)
Liked 1,699 Times in 1,138 Posts
Originally Posted by tNuvolari View Post
Yeah, I did think about that but I have a treadless adapter which I don't think will allow much more height. I'll check it out. Also, I keep raising my saddle a little at a time and each time feels better even though I haven't grown in height in 30 years! Maybe my legs are stretching....



Yeah, I like the silver skeletons and don't even mind the black ones either. The non skeletons from the 10 speed years aren't very attractive but they are cheap. Great braking is beautiful though so not going to worry too much about the looks....





IIRC Campy do not specify a ferrule inside the hoods for the casing ends but that could be it. I'm almost positive I got the cable placement correct. Thanks for the info; I'll check it out right now.
They may not specify a ferrule but the housing and cut on the end where it engages is critical as well as the integrity of the housing seat in the lever, it may be pinching the cable under pull load in the seat and or may be compromised, reamed out or....

Also might want to mark the housing at the lever and make sure the calipers are releasing completely, really seems like something going on here out of the ordinary besides crappy performance.

Last edited by merziac; 07-18-20 at 04:39 PM.
merziac is offline  
Likes For merziac:
Old 07-18-20, 04:34 PM
  #14  
The Golden Boy 
Extraordinary Magnitude
 
The Golden Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Waukesha WI
Posts: 12,737

Bikes: 1978 Trek TX700; 1978/79 Trek 736; 1984 Specialized Stumpjumper Sport; 1984 Schwinn Voyageur SP; 1985 Trek 620; 1985 Trek 720; 1986 Trek 400 Elance; 1987 Schwinn High Sierra; 1990 Miyata 1000LT

Mentioned: 76 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2237 Post(s)
Liked 746 Times in 455 Posts
I switched from 1986 Shimano Z Series side pulls to 1993-ish Ultegra/600 aero levers and a matching dual pivot in the front- and that was the best braking I'd experienced from side pulls.
__________________
*Recipient of the 2006 Time Magazine "Person Of The Year" Award*

Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!

"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
The Golden Boy is offline  
Old 07-18-20, 04:53 PM
  #15  
tNuvolari
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 134

Bikes: 1986 Torpado Beta, 2006 Wilier Triestina Izoard

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 61 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 14 Times in 12 Posts
Originally Posted by merziac View Post
They may not specify a ferrule but the housing and cut on the end where it engages is critical as well as the integrity of the housing seat in the lever, it may be pinching the cable under pull load in the seat and or may be compromised, reamed out or....

Also might want to mark the housing at the lever and make sure the calipers are releasing completely, really seems like something going on here out of the ordinary besides crappy performance.
It's not easy to get into the lever housings and check the casing end. But after squeezing the lever over and over, it now seems to have settled. Also, I raised the handlebars a small amount (about 5mm, no more height is allowed on the threadless adapter) which of course stretched the cable and my not-long-enough casing cut so that is making things a bit more problematic. I redid the bar tape end to allow the front brake cable to come out sooner and provide a tiny bit more casing/cable to allow the extra bar height.

I wouldn't call the braking crappy; I'm just getting picky and want easier quicker braking.

Hmmm, maybe disc brakes....(I wish I could as I'm sure that would be a huge improvement. Maybe in a few years....)

Oh, one thing I did notice while squeezing the levers extra hard and watching the brakes is that nearly all of the flex and lever squish happens in the pads. They compress a huge amount. I guess harder pads would grind down rims in no time.

Hmmm, maybe disc brakes....
tNuvolari is offline  
Old 07-18-20, 05:02 PM
  #16  
Salamandrine 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 6,287

Bikes: 78 Masi Criterium, 68 PX10, 2016 Mercian King of Mercia, Rivendell Clem Smith Jr

Mentioned: 120 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2311 Post(s)
Liked 563 Times in 404 Posts
Disk brakes require a fork and frame that have been reinforced to handle the load at the ends.

As an interim thing, you could replace the vintage pad holders with modern cartridge pads. I like the Kool Stop Dura dual compound. They are thinner so there is less squish. This makes them not last as long as old school pads, so there's a bit of a trade off.
Salamandrine is offline  
Old 07-18-20, 05:12 PM
  #17  
JohnDThompson 
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 22,704

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 133 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2639 Post(s)
Liked 1,303 Times in 815 Posts
The main advantage of dual-pivot brakes is greater mechanical advantage (i.e. less hand strength needed). If you're accustomed to dual pivot brakes on other bikes, you may find single pivot brakes require disturbingly more effort to stop the bike. As others have noted above, braking from the hoods with single pivot brakes is more speed modulation than rapid stopping; for that, you go to the drops and grab the ends of the levers.

Chances are, you'd find a single, dual pivot front caliper to be sufficient to give the braking effort you expect. Campagnolo actually made their brakes that way: dual pivot front caliper, single pivot rear caliper. That reduces the risk locking up the rear wheel and going into a skid.
JohnDThompson is online now  
Old 07-18-20, 05:28 PM
  #18  
scarlson 
Senior Member
 
scarlson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Medford MA
Posts: 1,351

Bikes: Ron Cooper touring, 1959 Jack Taylor 650b ladyback touring tandem, Vitus 979, Joe Bell painted Claud Butler Dalesman, Colin Laing curved tube tandem, heavily-Dilberted 1982 Trek 6xx, René Herse tandem

Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 594 Post(s)
Liked 730 Times in 413 Posts
Originally Posted by tNuvolari View Post
Hmmm, maybe disc brakes....(I wish I could as I'm sure that would be a huge improvement. Maybe in a few years....)
...
Hmmm, maybe disc brakes....
In my experience (two modern mtbs, one with hydraulic and one with mechanical discs), I haven't found disc brakes to be any better than a well-set-up cantilever brake. They do seem to take less hand effort, but the maximum stopping power is the same. And they fade on long descents, if you do that sort of thing.

The best-working brake I ever set up, in terms of raw power, was a V-brake pulled by a very old four-finger Shimano lever (BL-AT50) that was originally designed for cantilever brakes but wouldn't look out of place on a motorcycle. The lever was huge and the pull was huge, and it would halt a tandem in a massive hurry. One time some jerk cut us off and I applied it full-force, next thing I knew my stoker was riding on my back!
__________________
Owner & co-founder, Cycles René Hubris. Unfortunately attaching questionable braze-ons to perfectly good frames since about 2015. With style.
scarlson is offline  
Likes For scarlson:
Old 07-18-20, 05:32 PM
  #19  
sheddle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,410

Bikes: my precious steel boys

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 431 Post(s)
Liked 573 Times in 341 Posts
For my experience, the sprung single pivot calipers like the Shimano 105 SLRs can very reliably be used from the brake hoods.
sheddle is offline  
Likes For sheddle:
Old 07-18-20, 05:44 PM
  #20  
RobbieTunes
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 27,297
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 378 Post(s)
Liked 1,373 Times in 887 Posts
Brake Upgrade - Are Dual Pivot Calipers a Noticeable Difference?

Yes.
RobbieTunes is offline  
Likes For RobbieTunes:
Old 07-18-20, 05:57 PM
  #21  
TiHabanero
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,432
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1240 Post(s)
Liked 561 Times in 307 Posts
Last year I converted to indexed shifting on my bike and went with Record 11 brifters, however they are coupled with Nuovo Record brakes from 1986. They work just fine and are definitely safe. I brake from the hoods, but admit my hands and forearms have not weakened with age.
TiHabanero is offline  
Old 07-18-20, 06:23 PM
  #22  
Choke 
Disciple of St. Tullio
 
Choke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: State of Jefferson
Posts: 647

Bikes: Ciöcc, Bianchi, DeRosa, Eddy Merckx, Frejus, Hampsten, Kondor, Losa, Magni, Pegoretti, Pelizzoli, Pogliaghi, Scapin

Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 214 Post(s)
Liked 147 Times in 78 Posts
I'm sure that I'm in the minority but I do not like dual-pivot brakes. They do have more power than single-pivots but I feel that the power comes at the expense of less modulation and given the choice I'd rather have better modulation. In other words, they feel too much like an on/off switch to me.

One thing that you can do to improve the single-pivots is to use modern pads and holders. I know that you have Kool Stops on there but the original pads are short and fat. Modern pads are longer and thinner and the shape is better suited to the brake track on modern rims...and vintage rims as well IMO. The slot on your Athena brakes is not wide enough for the bolt on modern Campy holders but a modern Shimano style holder will work. The bolt is a tiny bit smaller than the opening on the caliper but in practice it doesn't make a difference. I run modern Shimano style pads and holders on all of my vintage calipers (except the Deltas which will fit a modern Campy holder). I'm also not a fan of Kool Stop pads, my choice is SwissStop black.

Modern Shimano style pads and holders mounted on a vintage brakeset, you can see how much longer the pads are compared to yours.

Choke is offline  
Old 07-18-20, 06:32 PM
  #23  
aland2
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 42
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked 19 Times in 12 Posts
Dual pivot brakes are very good used with compatible levers, very responsive and sensitive.

But Weinmann 500s are very light and simple and anyway, brakes only slow ya down
aland2 is offline  
Old 07-18-20, 06:53 PM
  #24  
Miele Man
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,328

Bikes: iele Latina, Miele Suprema, Miele Uno LS, Miele Miele Beta, MMTB, Bianchi Model Unknown, Fiori Venezia, Fiori Napoli, VeloSport Adamas AX

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1180 Post(s)
Liked 748 Times in 520 Posts
If your cable housing does have ferrules make sure they are metal not plastic and check them to be sure the housing is not coming through them. A few years ago I put new cable housing and metal ferrules on one of my bikes and when I squeezed the brake lever really hard to bed in everything the end of the ferrule fialed and the cable housing came through it. that happened with all four ferrules I got. A bad batch perhaps.

Cheers
Miele Man is online now  
Old 07-18-20, 07:16 PM
  #25  
merziac
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 8,117

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 162 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2449 Post(s)
Liked 1,699 Times in 1,138 Posts
Modulation and expectations, the balance is key.

I probably don't ride hard or fast enough for it to be critical but when I need to stop, I do.

Articulation can be key imho.

Get the bars up with levers up on the bars for leverage from the hoods.

I know its visually offensive but I'm too old to worry about it, comfort and being able to go the distance is what its all about.

The Merz at the bottom has the Athena skeleton's that went on the Strawberry, but normally runs Campy record single pivot side pulls that work just fine at Crater lake on the 40mph downhills.

Sketchiest of the bunch are the Weinmann's on the Paramount, new cables and pads will likely improve them plenty.






Last edited by merziac; 07-18-20 at 07:23 PM.
merziac is offline  
Likes For merziac:

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.