Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Skating Chain

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Skating Chain

Old 07-19-20, 08:59 PM
  #1  
embankmentlb
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
embankmentlb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: North, Ga.
Posts: 2,099

Bikes: 3Rensho-Aerodynamics, Bernard Hinault Look - 1986 tour winner, Guerciotti, Various Klein's & Panasonic's

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked 60 Times in 32 Posts
Skating Chain

I feel kind of stupid not having an answer for this problem because I have been into old bikes from the time Old bikes were new. I took my old 1985 Panasonic out for the first real ride in many years and it was on some pretty hilly terrain. At least 3 times in the ride when shifting from the large front chainring to the small the chain would just skate on top of the small chaining, almost nothing I could do would get it to engage the teeth. It is kind of a scary feeling when you are all clipped, stalling out and in traffic.
The bike has a full Campy Victory group with Regina chain and freewheel that otherwise works amazingly well.
My next step is to adjust the front mech to give it more through past the small ring. I however see potential problems of loosing the chain off the inside completely.
Anyway I can say that out of all my years using almost every (now) vintage
component brand of bike components I have never really experienced this problem.
Please, I would like to hear your suggestions as to how to fix this problem.
Thanks everyone, ride on!

Last edited by embankmentlb; 07-19-20 at 09:08 PM.
embankmentlb is offline  
Old 07-19-20, 10:55 PM
  #2  
SurferRosa
Señor Member
 
SurferRosa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 3,009

Bikes: Old school lightweights

Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1241 Post(s)
Liked 1,005 Times in 613 Posts
This has happened to me a couple times with the wrong chain for the crankset. The 8-speed chain on my '87 Letour skated on and between its double (can't remember the chainset model). And an 8-speed skated between an early SR Apex double on my '82 Miyata. Both times a wider 5- or 6-speed chain solved the skating problem.

I wonder if you're using a 9- or 10-speed chain with your Victory crank or the chainring bolts are an issue.
SurferRosa is offline  
Old 07-19-20, 11:13 PM
  #3  
repechage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 14,723
Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1449 Post(s)
Liked 395 Times in 313 Posts
Might as well check the chainline too.

every once in a while I have a bike that behaves this way- remove the chainring and double check for wear- burrs etc.

sometimes the front mech is not moving with authority- I remove it, clean with the adjusters backed out a bit to traverse it beyond its normal range of movement, lubricate it and any cable guides- check for dragging. I always slam the downshift - let the spring do the work.

after that is all happy, get the bike on the stand and work the gears- sometimes the cage can be massaged a bit to encourage snappy movement. Note though, these pre Ramp and pin set ups do not like to shift at high load and low RPM.
repechage is offline  
Likes For repechage:
Old 07-20-20, 10:39 AM
  #4  
embankmentlb
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
embankmentlb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: North, Ga.
Posts: 2,099

Bikes: 3Rensho-Aerodynamics, Bernard Hinault Look - 1986 tour winner, Guerciotti, Various Klein's & Panasonic's

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked 60 Times in 32 Posts
Thanks for all the helpful responses!
As I hinted in the initial post, I Have been riding bikes for a pretty long time.
My first road bike was in 1982. But I seem to have forgotten so much.
The chain is a HKK Ultra 6 not a Regina as I originally stated.
I imagine that may be the cause of the problem. Would you recommend a new Sram 8 speed chain? I may also have a nos Regina oro in storage that I could use? Can you recommend something else? The freewheel is standard spacing but not really having a problem there.
embankmentlb is offline  
Old 07-20-20, 10:54 AM
  #5  
SJX426 
Senior Member
 
SJX426's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fredericksburg, Va
Posts: 7,140

Bikes: '73 Bottecchia Giro d'Italia, '83 Colnago Superissimo, '84 Trek 610, '84 Trek 760, '88 Pinarello Veneto, '90 De Rosa Professional, '91 Pinarello Montello, '94 Burley Duet, 97 Specialized RockHopper, 2010 Langster, Tern Link D8

Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 745 Post(s)
Liked 311 Times in 206 Posts
A different rear block will not make a difference IMHO. Which sprocket is the chain on in the back when you have this problem? I would also check chain line and FD operation before spending any money. Knowing root cause first will save time and money.
__________________
Bikes don't stand alone. They are two tired.
SJX426 is offline  
Likes For SJX426:
Old 07-20-20, 11:08 AM
  #6  
embankmentlb
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
embankmentlb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: North, Ga.
Posts: 2,099

Bikes: 3Rensho-Aerodynamics, Bernard Hinault Look - 1986 tour winner, Guerciotti, Various Klein's & Panasonic's

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked 60 Times in 32 Posts

As you can see the chain rings have a large gap between them.
embankmentlb is offline  
Old 07-20-20, 12:05 PM
  #7  
trailangel
Senior Member
 
trailangel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 4,256

Bikes: Schwinn Varsity

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1579 Post(s)
Liked 295 Times in 188 Posts
Check that the chainrings are on correctly, not flipped. Looks like a wide spacing.
Also, clean it up, and as repechage says, shift with authority..... throw the lever all the way and let the spring shift it.
trailangel is offline  
Old 07-20-20, 12:20 PM
  #8  
iab
Senior Member
 
iab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NW Burbs, Chicago
Posts: 10,265
Mentioned: 135 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1842 Post(s)
Liked 724 Times in 374 Posts
You also may need to back off the lower stop.
iab is offline  
Old 07-20-20, 12:53 PM
  #9  
SJX426 
Senior Member
 
SJX426's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fredericksburg, Va
Posts: 7,140

Bikes: '73 Bottecchia Giro d'Italia, '83 Colnago Superissimo, '84 Trek 610, '84 Trek 760, '88 Pinarello Veneto, '90 De Rosa Professional, '91 Pinarello Montello, '94 Burley Duet, 97 Specialized RockHopper, 2010 Langster, Tern Link D8

Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 745 Post(s)
Liked 311 Times in 206 Posts
LOL! If you have a mill, GREAT! No great loss with a Victory crank with its odd ball BCD!

Nice looking bike BTW!

I have the same problem with the triple on the tandem. Gotta get exactly right position with the bar end. No sneaking up on it.
__________________
Bikes don't stand alone. They are two tired.
SJX426 is offline  
Old 07-20-20, 02:21 PM
  #10  
SurferRosa
Señor Member
 
SurferRosa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 3,009

Bikes: Old school lightweights

Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1241 Post(s)
Liked 1,005 Times in 613 Posts
Yet another reason why Triomphe is better in the crankset department.
SurferRosa is offline  
Old 07-20-20, 05:08 PM
  #11  
embankmentlb
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
embankmentlb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: North, Ga.
Posts: 2,099

Bikes: 3Rensho-Aerodynamics, Bernard Hinault Look - 1986 tour winner, Guerciotti, Various Klein's & Panasonic's

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked 60 Times in 32 Posts
It will be probably next week before I can get back to wrenching. In the meantime I have an 8 speed Sram chain on order & will find the Regina I have saved. Then I will compare all the chains and make some adjustments to the front mech and see how it goes.
One problem is that all works on the stand. I must ride about 5 miles to truly test it. It will be a fun experience.
embankmentlb is offline  
Old 07-20-20, 05:10 PM
  #12  
dddd
Ride, Wrench, Swap, Race
 
dddd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 7,533

Bikes: Cheltenham-Pederson racer, Boulder F/S Paris-Roubaix, Varsity racer, '52 Christophe, '62 Continental, '92 Merckx, '75 Limongi, '76 Presto, '72 Gitane SC, '71 Schwinn SS, etc.

Mentioned: 106 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 924 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 315 Times in 240 Posts
This sort of between-rings skating on double and triple cranksets has become common on many of the bikes that I or someone else has installed narrower modern chain on.

This is usually quite easy to fix though if I just bevel the tips of the small ring's teeth as shown. This relocates the tips closer to the big ring.

The old chain you are using is likely part of the problem, it's both narrow and without any outward bulge to the side plates. Get rid of it and use something like Shimano CN-HG70, or any other good, modern 7.3mm width chain (some are narrower than that, including SRAM and some of the KMC 7-8s chains).




For some worst-case cases of chain skate, I have removed the ring and bent each tooth a half-millimeter, which was easy enough.

The SR Apex and some old Stronglight cranks had the very widest chainring spacing, while oddly enough I have ran 9s chain on certain much-older steel cranksets with no issues.
dddd is online now  
Old 07-20-20, 06:11 PM
  #13  
ramzilla
Senior Member
 
ramzilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Fernandina Beach FL
Posts: 3,302

Bikes: Vintage Japanese Bicycles, Tange, Ishiwata, Kuwahara

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 637 Post(s)
Liked 215 Times in 172 Posts
This is the main reason I lubricate my chains with automatic transmission fluid. I'm also a big fan of KMC 8.93x chains on all my vintage 5, 6, & 7 speed set ups.
ramzilla is offline  
Likes For ramzilla:
Old 07-28-20, 05:06 PM
  #14  
embankmentlb
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
embankmentlb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: North, Ga.
Posts: 2,099

Bikes: 3Rensho-Aerodynamics, Bernard Hinault Look - 1986 tour winner, Guerciotti, Various Klein's & Panasonic's

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked 60 Times in 32 Posts
Chain update! I replaced the old ultra chain with a nos 5-6 speed Regina that I had stored away. Although I have only tried it on the stand, it looks like the skating problem is solved. The Regina has longer pins that prevent it from resting on the inner cog’s teeth. The ultra chain could just ride there comfortably.
embankmentlb is offline  
Likes For embankmentlb:
Old 07-28-20, 05:29 PM
  #15  
Velo Mule
Senior Member
 
Velo Mule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 878

Bikes: Trek 800 x 2, Schwinn Heavy Duti, Electra Cantilever, Schwinn Traveler, Schwinn Le Tour Luxe, Schwinn World, Schwinn Continental

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 266 Post(s)
Liked 190 Times in 144 Posts
I hate when the chain skates instead of dances.

Somebody had to say it.

Let us know how the test ride goes.
Velo Mule is online now  
Old 07-29-20, 02:02 AM
  #16  
gaucho777 
Senior Member
 
gaucho777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 6,577

Bikes: '72 Cilo Pacer, '72 Peugeot PX10, '73 Speedwell Ti, '74 Nishiki Competition, '74 Peugeot UE-8, '85 De Rosa Pro, '86 Look Equipe 753, '86 Look KG86, '89 Parkpre Team, '90 Parkpre Team MTB, '90 Merlin

Mentioned: 65 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 493 Post(s)
Liked 195 Times in 95 Posts
Glad the OP seems to have fixed the skating chain issues.

In addition to what's already been said before, I'll offer another potential cause I've experienced for the sake of future troubleshooting: Missing chainring bolt(s). I somehow lost a bolt on a TA crank, and a second small chainring bolt had started to loosen as well. As a result, the gap between the chainrings became wider and my chain would also "skate" when downshifting from the big to small chainring. Make sure those chainring bolts are tight!
gaucho777 is offline  
Likes For gaucho777:
Old 07-29-20, 04:36 AM
  #17  
KenNC
Senior Member
 
KenNC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 303
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Liked 47 Times in 27 Posts
Originally Posted by dddd View Post
This sort of between-rings skating on double and triple cranksets has become common on many of the bikes that I or someone else has installed narrower modern chain on.

This is usually quite easy to fix though if I just bevel the tips of the small ring's teeth as shown. This relocates the tips closer to the big ring.

The old chain you are using is likely part of the problem, it's both narrow and without any outward bulge to the side plates. Get rid of it and use something like Shimano CN-HG70, or any other good, modern 7.3mm width chain (some are narrower than that, including SRAM and some of the KMC 7-8s chains).

For some worst-case cases of chain skate, I have removed the ring and bent each tooth a half-millimeter, which was easy enough.

The SR Apex and some old Stronglight cranks had the very widest chainring spacing, while oddly enough I have ran 9s chain on certain much-older steel cranksets with no issues.
I likewise have found chain the width to be key to this problem, with 7.1mm chains (8 speed) skating, and 7.3mm chains solving the problem. The 7.3mm is actually the pin length.
KenNC is offline  
Likes For KenNC:
Old 08-01-20, 10:00 AM
  #18  
embankmentlb
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
embankmentlb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: North, Ga.
Posts: 2,099

Bikes: 3Rensho-Aerodynamics, Bernard Hinault Look - 1986 tour winner, Guerciotti, Various Klein's & Panasonic's

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked 60 Times in 32 Posts
Update! The new Regina chain was 100% successful on the front chainrings. I shifts extremely well with no skating or hang ups.
The rear seems to be I bit more sensitive than before. Much of that may be my bad technique.
Thanks everyone!
embankmentlb is offline  
Old 08-01-20, 10:18 AM
  #19  
embankmentlb
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
embankmentlb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: North, Ga.
Posts: 2,099

Bikes: 3Rensho-Aerodynamics, Bernard Hinault Look - 1986 tour winner, Guerciotti, Various Klein's & Panasonic's

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked 60 Times in 32 Posts

embankmentlb is offline  
Old 08-01-20, 12:11 PM
  #20  
SurferRosa
Señor Member
 
SurferRosa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 3,009

Bikes: Old school lightweights

Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1241 Post(s)
Liked 1,005 Times in 613 Posts
"Smells like ... ... Victory."
SurferRosa is offline  
Likes For SurferRosa:
Old 08-09-20, 11:01 AM
  #21  
embankmentlb
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
embankmentlb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: North, Ga.
Posts: 2,099

Bikes: 3Rensho-Aerodynamics, Bernard Hinault Look - 1986 tour winner, Guerciotti, Various Klein's & Panasonic's

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked 60 Times in 32 Posts
For all those who are following this story, I switched out the chain once again. Now I have an 8 speed SRAM chain. The front works great and the rear now works great. I feel very happy with the combination of Regina freewheel, Victory crank and SRAM chain. Life is good!
embankmentlb is offline  
Likes For embankmentlb:
Old 08-09-20, 02:03 PM
  #22  
Charles Wahl
Disraeli Gears
 
Charles Wahl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 3,722
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 283 Post(s)
Liked 101 Times in 70 Posts
I hope you cleaned your freewheel and chainwheels while doing all the chain on-and-off. Bike deserves that.
Charles Wahl is offline  
Old 08-10-20, 01:20 AM
  #23  
embankmentlb
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
embankmentlb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: North, Ga.
Posts: 2,099

Bikes: 3Rensho-Aerodynamics, Bernard Hinault Look - 1986 tour winner, Guerciotti, Various Klein's & Panasonic's

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked 60 Times in 32 Posts
Thank you for the reminder. I am not good at cleaning such things.
embankmentlb is offline  
Old 08-10-20, 05:13 AM
  #24  
SJX426 
Senior Member
 
SJX426's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fredericksburg, Va
Posts: 7,140

Bikes: '73 Bottecchia Giro d'Italia, '83 Colnago Superissimo, '84 Trek 610, '84 Trek 760, '88 Pinarello Veneto, '90 De Rosa Professional, '91 Pinarello Montello, '94 Burley Duet, 97 Specialized RockHopper, 2010 Langster, Tern Link D8

Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 745 Post(s)
Liked 311 Times in 206 Posts
embankmentlb Good to hear you solved your skating problem! What was assumed was that this problem occurred in a big rear to small front change. In other words, cross chain situation. Can you verify?

This is an interesting challenge for a 5 speed rear. The 8 speed rear on the Montello with a an 8V chain is not a skating problem but a drop issue. cross chain situations are easily obtained on this configuration with an occasional drop when in either a low rear/small front to large front or the opposite, big rear/big front to small front. Shfiting in the middle, 4th up and then change in front works extremely well, as expected. One of the reasons not to cross chain no matter how convenient it can be.
__________________
Bikes don't stand alone. They are two tired.
SJX426 is offline  
Old 08-10-20, 08:11 AM
  #25  
OldsCOOL
Senior Member
 
OldsCOOL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: northern michigan
Posts: 12,972

Bikes: '77 Colnago Super, '76 Fuji The Finest, '88 Cannondale Criterium, '86 Trek 760, '87 Miyata 712

Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 576 Post(s)
Liked 319 Times in 175 Posts
Originally Posted by embankmentlb View Post
Thanks for all the helpful responses!
As I hinted in the initial post, I Have been riding bikes for a pretty long time.
My first road bike was in 1982. But I seem to have forgotten so much.
The chain is a HKK Ultra 6 not a Regina as I originally stated.
I imagine that may be the cause of the problem. Would you recommend a new Sram 8 speed chain? I may also have a nos Regina oro in storage that I could use? Can you recommend something else? The freewheel is standard spacing but not really having a problem there.
Good idea to replace the chain if you have more a few seasons of spirited riding. Chains are not expensive as a first step. I go with the Sram 8sp shortened a few links to size. I have had good results with them on my vintage racers be it cassette or freewheel, Stronglight, Shimano, etc chainrings.
OldsCOOL is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.