The old water bottle dilemma.
07-29-20, 10:22 AM
#51
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Originally Posted by pcb
Minoura single bar mount with Wolf Tooth B-Rad Double Bottle Adapters.
https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/...e-cage-adapter
You could use the Wolf Tooth B-Rad as intended, on your single dt bottle cage mounts. My gut tells me if your calves were big enough maybe you'd brush against the cages? I dunno, never really gave much thought to how much clearance there was between my calves and the down tube. Because with a single cage it doesn't matter.
You could also just use the Minoura mount for a single cage.
You _can_ get the Minoura mounts to work on 26.0mm bars, but it ain't easy. The u-shaped mounts need to be finessed and bent ever so slightly, and the threads usually lightly scrape the bar. The front clamp/mount section ears need to be bent a little towards the bars to meet the threads. Then there aren't many threads protruding when you first start out, and the included Minoura nuts are highly-strippable alloy, so I use steel nuts to get it all set up, then swap in the alloy nuts one at a time. I reckon the Minoura mount would not work on Cinelli 26.4mm bars.
The downward protruding cage mount sections blocks the stem adjustment bolt from the front, which is a pain. You really have to get your bar angle dead on before the Minoura goes on. And sometimes, depending on the shape of the front of the stem, you can't quite get the downward angle you want because the stem gets in the way.
They really are a pain in the keyster on 26.0 bars, but there's something about their otherwise simplicity that keeps me using them. Fortunately not on too many bikes.
Bar-mount cages are a little anachronistic for an '86 frame, but these first pix below were on a '91 Fuquay/Serotta 'cross race frame, which had no bottle mounts at all. I'd rather be anachronistic/funky than use clamps on the frame. But that's just me.
https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/...e-cage-adapter
You could use the Wolf Tooth B-Rad as intended, on your single dt bottle cage mounts. My gut tells me if your calves were big enough maybe you'd brush against the cages? I dunno, never really gave much thought to how much clearance there was between my calves and the down tube. Because with a single cage it doesn't matter.
You could also just use the Minoura mount for a single cage.
You _can_ get the Minoura mounts to work on 26.0mm bars, but it ain't easy. The u-shaped mounts need to be finessed and bent ever so slightly, and the threads usually lightly scrape the bar. The front clamp/mount section ears need to be bent a little towards the bars to meet the threads. Then there aren't many threads protruding when you first start out, and the included Minoura nuts are highly-strippable alloy, so I use steel nuts to get it all set up, then swap in the alloy nuts one at a time. I reckon the Minoura mount would not work on Cinelli 26.4mm bars.
The downward protruding cage mount sections blocks the stem adjustment bolt from the front, which is a pain. You really have to get your bar angle dead on before the Minoura goes on. And sometimes, depending on the shape of the front of the stem, you can't quite get the downward angle you want because the stem gets in the way.
They really are a pain in the keyster on 26.0 bars, but there's something about their otherwise simplicity that keeps me using them. Fortunately not on too many bikes.
Bar-mount cages are a little anachronistic for an '86 frame, but these first pix below were on a '91 Fuquay/Serotta 'cross race frame, which had no bottle mounts at all. I'd rather be anachronistic/funky than use clamps on the frame. But that's just me.
07-29-20, 10:47 AM
#52
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Ok, so this looks like this thread has run it's course as far as available options & it looks like the problem is pretty much solved for the OP.
I'm sharing this because the other day I was doing a gravel century in 90 degree heat & went through 224 ounces. If not for the State Park at the 53 mile mark for a complete refill from dry, I'd have been hosed.
I just bought this, so I thought I'd share.
4 litres...About a gallon.
I can let you know my impressions when it arrives from Australia. With shipping it was $100 US. Which isn't unreasonable considering how much bottles, mounts, cages, etc...cost when you add it all up.
I'm sharing this because the other day I was doing a gravel century in 90 degree heat & went through 224 ounces. If not for the State Park at the 53 mile mark for a complete refill from dry, I'd have been hosed.
I just bought this, so I thought I'd share.
4 litres...About a gallon.
I can let you know my impressions when it arrives from Australia. With shipping it was $100 US. Which isn't unreasonable considering how much bottles, mounts, cages, etc...cost when you add it all up.
07-29-20, 10:55 AM
#53
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Let me know how drinking one handed in a quick peloton works out.
Actually, it's pretty cool. I kind of love the idea of stopping if you need a drink. For size, fwiw, I have a 4L dromedary bag from MSR. I through bit in my climbing pack on especially long and hot days. Like desert or southern Colorado. I don't think I've ever managed to empty it in a day. My guess is that it's going to last you as long as you want it to last on a ride.
Actually, it's pretty cool. I kind of love the idea of stopping if you need a drink. For size, fwiw, I have a 4L dromedary bag from MSR. I through bit in my climbing pack on especially long and hot days. Like desert or southern Colorado. I don't think I've ever managed to empty it in a day. My guess is that it's going to last you as long as you want it to last on a ride.
07-29-20, 11:08 AM
#54
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I have a bunch of alloy spacers/bushings I probably bought from McMaster-Carr a looong time ago. I mostly use them, and not all that often, on fender/rack installations. The ones you see here are all about 9-10mm outer diameter, with a hole for an M5 bolt. The shorter/narrower ones are 5mm tall, the longer one was maybe 15mm?
The installation problem here is not being able to get the cages angled down/back far enough, due to stem/mount interference. You want that angle to help prevent bottle ejection over bumps/roughage. So I use the taller spacers up top to move the top end further forward. The longer spacer between the Wolftooth and Minoura really needed the Minoura-side surface angled, since I didn't want that much torque pushing against a small part of the spacer surface. The 5mm Wolftooth-cage spacers would be more elegant with the rear surfaces angled, but it didn't seem like a significant torque issue, and there's only so much time I can spend on installing bottle cages before I want to drive a spike into my ear. So I left them unfiled. Once the bottles are installed all that stuff is only visible from a few angles, so it doesn't visually offend me too much.
How many/size spacers you need depends on the stem. I'm using that same setup on the Hetchins pictured, with Nitto cages, and I didn't need/use the shorter Wolftooth-cage spacers.
Another handy hint is you can also sometimes bend the Minoura mount itself down/back, to help get a better angle. You need to do that, I think, with the mount installed on the stem, it kind of has to bend/deform around the stem itself. So I don't think you could bend it in a bench vise, or by hand, off the stem. Not at least with a lot of back-and-forth fitting, which I don't have the patience for. You might be scratching the front of the stem a bit doing this? Shouldn't be visible until/unless you remove the Minoura mount.
You also want a tight-ish bottle/cage fit, btw. First time I took the Fuquay on a trail I had stainless steel bottles, and even with the cages angled, the bottles kept getting a little air over bumps. When things are geting rough is the exact time you don't want to have to try to take a hand off the bars to keep your bottles from ejecting.
The installation problem here is not being able to get the cages angled down/back far enough, due to stem/mount interference. You want that angle to help prevent bottle ejection over bumps/roughage. So I use the taller spacers up top to move the top end further forward. The longer spacer between the Wolftooth and Minoura really needed the Minoura-side surface angled, since I didn't want that much torque pushing against a small part of the spacer surface. The 5mm Wolftooth-cage spacers would be more elegant with the rear surfaces angled, but it didn't seem like a significant torque issue, and there's only so much time I can spend on installing bottle cages before I want to drive a spike into my ear. So I left them unfiled. Once the bottles are installed all that stuff is only visible from a few angles, so it doesn't visually offend me too much.
How many/size spacers you need depends on the stem. I'm using that same setup on the Hetchins pictured, with Nitto cages, and I didn't need/use the shorter Wolftooth-cage spacers.
Another handy hint is you can also sometimes bend the Minoura mount itself down/back, to help get a better angle. You need to do that, I think, with the mount installed on the stem, it kind of has to bend/deform around the stem itself. So I don't think you could bend it in a bench vise, or by hand, off the stem. Not at least with a lot of back-and-forth fitting, which I don't have the patience for. You might be scratching the front of the stem a bit doing this? Shouldn't be visible until/unless you remove the Minoura mount.
You also want a tight-ish bottle/cage fit, btw. First time I took the Fuquay on a trail I had stainless steel bottles, and even with the cages angled, the bottles kept getting a little air over bumps. When things are geting rough is the exact time you don't want to have to try to take a hand off the bars to keep your bottles from ejecting.
Originally Posted by wintermute
I like this! What did you use for spacers between the Minoura mount and the Wolftooth and between the Wolftooth and cages?
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07-29-20, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by rosefarts
Let me know how drinking one handed in a quick peloton works out.
Actually, it's pretty cool. I kind of love the idea of stopping if you need a drink. For size, fwiw, I have a 4L dromedary bag from MSR. I through bit in my climbing pack on especially long and hot days. Like desert or southern Colorado. I don't think I've ever managed to empty it in a day. My guess is that it's going to last you as long as you want it to last on a ride.
Actually, it's pretty cool. I kind of love the idea of stopping if you need a drink. For size, fwiw, I have a 4L dromedary bag from MSR. I through bit in my climbing pack on especially long and hot days. Like desert or southern Colorado. I don't think I've ever managed to empty it in a day. My guess is that it's going to last you as long as you want it to last on a ride.
Agreed, running through 4 litres in a day is not a frequent occurance, but running out would be devastating. I regularly run dry my 3 litre CamelBack & bike bottles & fortunately, thusfar my rides are either over or close enough to it for it not to matter. I like the idea that for a longer venture, the options for the MSR bladders in frame bags & whatnot are still available in addition to & the weight isn't carried on my back any more.
Quite by surprise, I went through 2 32 ounce water bottles twice (1 gallon) this year on a 40 miler in the desert of Washington State. If not for the kindness of a resident watering his flowers in the small town with out so much as a general store to refill my 2 bottles the situation could've been dire.
Maybe it's the length of my rides, maybe it's the heat, maybe it's the dry air, maybe it's where I ride, but for me, the CrankTank is buying security & a not sore back.
I looked at the MSR bladders (& related ceramic filter/pump) When I go camping, I think I'm going to get one, but I'm not quite there yet. What do you think of them?
07-29-20, 12:53 PM
#56
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Originally Posted by base2
I looked at the MSR bladders (& related ceramic filter/pump) When I go camping, I think I'm going to get one, but I'm not quite there yet. What do you think of them?
I use a steri pen, and it's specific to 1/2 an full liter Nalgene. So I still need that to fill from.
I've never put a flavor into it but overall it seems great, no plastic taste or anything. It seems tough. I don't know about throwing it in the cactus but banging around inside a pack full of climbing gear, it's never leaked. About a million times tougher than any of the plastic CamelBak and other style bladders.
There is a finicky double spout, one that is for filling other bottles or hard chugging. Left open it would drain the bag in about 30 seconds. Then there is the trickle, it's almost enough for a good drink but not quite. I wish there was something in between.
It's dark grey, so it's pretty capable as a solar shower using the trickle spout, no need to get the shower attachment.
That's pretty much my whole review. It's not useful every day but occasionally it's very useful.
07-29-20, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Chr0m0ly
I put a water bladder in my handlebar bag. Keeps it off my back, and the sipping hose is right there when you need it. And it’s pretty stealth in an old Cannondale bar bag.
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07-29-20, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by rosefarts
The dromedary specifically have a lid that's exactly the size of a nalgene, that means a pump filter that is designed to screw on will work and you won't spill a drop.
I use a steri pen, and it's specific to 1/2 an full liter Nalgene. So I still need that to fill from.
I've never put a flavor into it but overall it seems great, no plastic taste or anything. It seems tough. I don't know about throwing it in the cactus but banging around inside a pack full of climbing gear, it's never leaked. About a million times tougher than any of the plastic CamelBak and other style bladders.
There is a finicky double spout, one that is for filling other bottles or hard chugging. Left open it would drain the bag in about 30 seconds. Then there is the trickle, it's almost enough for a good drink but not quite. I wish there was something in between.
It's dark grey, so it's pretty capable as a solar shower using the trickle spout, no need to get the shower attachment.
That's pretty much my whole review. It's not useful every day but occasionally it's very useful.
I use a steri pen, and it's specific to 1/2 an full liter Nalgene. So I still need that to fill from.
I've never put a flavor into it but overall it seems great, no plastic taste or anything. It seems tough. I don't know about throwing it in the cactus but banging around inside a pack full of climbing gear, it's never leaked. About a million times tougher than any of the plastic CamelBak and other style bladders.
There is a finicky double spout, one that is for filling other bottles or hard chugging. Left open it would drain the bag in about 30 seconds. Then there is the trickle, it's almost enough for a good drink but not quite. I wish there was something in between.
It's dark grey, so it's pretty capable as a solar shower using the trickle spout, no need to get the shower attachment.
That's pretty much my whole review. It's not useful every day but occasionally it's very useful.
Base2
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07-30-20, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by rosefarts
The dromedary...
08-03-20, 11:21 AM
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Can you plot a route, say a figure-8 or even "clover"-type route that returns you to a central point for food/drink? My friends and I do a metric century circuit in south Jersey, parking at a midpoint crossover to our 8-shaped route. We have snacks and coolers in the vehicles in order to replenish along the way.
08-03-20, 11:41 AM
#61
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Camelback...
08-03-20, 12:20 PM
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This gizmo is working well on my mid 80's Miyata 610 for a 2nd bottle on seat tube.
On a bike tour years ago cycling across Nevada in July I also used the roll up Platypus clear water bags to carry extra water.
Some days it was 70 miles between places to resupply h2O.
On a bike tour years ago cycling across Nevada in July I also used the roll up Platypus clear water bags to carry extra water.
Some days it was 70 miles between places to resupply h2O.
08-03-20, 12:30 PM
#64
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Originally Posted by rosefarts
Same story, different characters.
1986 Spectrum, almost showroom nice, has one water bottle.
Anyway, I thought it would be pretty cool to do a century on it, since the previous owner never did. All good bikes deserve to have someone suffer as part of their story, told or not.
So my plan was to enter a sponsored ride and just use the aid stations. We know how well that's going this year...
So water bottles in the pockets? I've done a single middle for long distances before and it's fine. Not so sure about more than that though.
Handlebar mount? The bike is 80s, not 60s, seems out of place.
Seat-tube has a Zefal hp X3 that has been on the bike since it was new. It's perfect there but is too short for the top tube. I'd rather not ditch it. If it did fit, I'd get a nice clamp on adapter and polish it silver. No pump peg on the bike anyway.
Behind the seat? It's not a tri bike. At all.
CamelBak? No.
Wife meet me every 35 miles with snacks and a fresh bottle? I'm guessing no.
I'd like to do a country open road type of thing, there might not be enough convenience stores to just fill up when I'm thirsty.
Kind of a dilemma since I'm not psyched on any of the ideas.
1986 Spectrum, almost showroom nice, has one water bottle.
Anyway, I thought it would be pretty cool to do a century on it, since the previous owner never did. All good bikes deserve to have someone suffer as part of their story, told or not.
So my plan was to enter a sponsored ride and just use the aid stations. We know how well that's going this year...
So water bottles in the pockets? I've done a single middle for long distances before and it's fine. Not so sure about more than that though.
Handlebar mount? The bike is 80s, not 60s, seems out of place.
Seat-tube has a Zefal hp X3 that has been on the bike since it was new. It's perfect there but is too short for the top tube. I'd rather not ditch it. If it did fit, I'd get a nice clamp on adapter and polish it silver. No pump peg on the bike anyway.
Behind the seat? It's not a tri bike. At all.
CamelBak? No.
Wife meet me every 35 miles with snacks and a fresh bottle? I'm guessing no.
I'd like to do a country open road type of thing, there might not be enough convenience stores to just fill up when I'm thirsty.
Kind of a dilemma since I'm not psyched on any of the ideas.
08-03-20, 02:31 PM
#65
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Originally Posted by SpectrumTi
...to utter the words 1986 Spectrum in a thread without including a photo.
Pump on the rear triangle. Kinda love this look
Running 25s but could do 28 and leave the pump in place.
SKS bottle mounts, cheap plastic, threads on the insert don't match up with the included bolts, and I had to use zip ties instead of the Velcro they came with. They do work though.
Closer
Still not convinced of the seat bag. Might switch back to my lion of Flanders mini bag.
And tomorrow the mailman is bringing me this https://www.ebay.com/itm/133319520156
08-03-20, 02:46 PM
#66
Junior Member
Get yourself a Carradice Barley retro saddlebag, that will easily hold two water bottles and rain gear and nut bars. Mount it to your saddle with one of the Carradice fixing systems (the Classic or the Quick Release and you are good to go. Only disadvantage is that this wide saddlebag can make it difficult to swing your leg to dismount.
https://www.carradice.co.uk/bags/saddlebags
https://www.carradice.co.uk/products...fixing-systems
https://www.carradice.co.uk/bags/saddlebags
https://www.carradice.co.uk/products...fixing-systems
08-08-20, 09:35 PM
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Added a water bottle cage. Started taking a longer ride now and then so I needed another bottle.
