Problem with nuovo record and cogs
Hi all,
I've been running in some gearing issues with a campy Nuovo Record RD and a suntour cog. The 2 highest gears are fine and never skip, however when I go to gear 1 to 4 I run into problems. Chain skips under even light pressure and tends to run over the gears. I correctly aligned hanger and RD, already renewed the chain to a KMC X8 which should be compatible for 6 to 8 speeds, with correct length. Only other thing I can think of is that cogs are worn out but imo they don't look worn? Any ideas? Thanks in advance! Max https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b818a7c03d.jpg |
Do you have a different freewheel to try out?
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While the picture is out of focus and it would be better to see the full freewheel and its sprockets without a chain and stays partially blocking the view, I'd guess you are correct that the smallest sprockets are significantly worn.
In my experience sprockets first show signs of wear on the inside which is impossible to see unless they are removed from the freewheel body. Your sprockets show wear on the outside which normally occurs well after the inside side of the sprockets are no longer usable. As an aside, the 4th sprocket, which has a "0" stamped into it, I've never seen that on a Suntour sprocket, and I've handled 1000s of Suntour sprockets. Interesting. Also, the "divide" on the ends of the teeth of the largest sprockets is more consistent with Regina, Atom and Maillard freewheels. |
Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh
(Post 21632670)
While the picture is out of focus and it would be better to see the full freewheel and its sprockets without a chain and stays partially blocking the view, I'd guess you are correct that the smallest sprockets are significantly worn.
In my experience sprockets first show signs of wear on the inside which is impossible to see unless they are removed from the freewheel body. Your sprockets show wear on the outside which normally occurs well after the inside side of the sprockets are no longer usable. As an aside, the 4th sprocket, which has a "0" stamped into it, I've never seen that on a Suntour sprocket, and I've handled 1000s of Suntour sprockets. Interesting. Also, the "divide" on the ends of the teeth of the largest sprockets is more consistent with Regina, Atom and Maillard freewheels. I have 2 other Maillards laying around but need to clean them before trying. See attached better photos. I might order a Subrace 6sp freewheel to eliminate any uncertainty... Cheers https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...48019de66b.jpg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...987c427a90.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a16e3dfce1.jpg |
Originally Posted by MaxDB
(Post 21632755)
You are totally correct! I was mistaking with an old suntour freewheel I removed before, this one is Maillard.
I have 2 other Maillards laying around but need to clean them before trying. See attached better photos. I might order a Subrace 6sp freewheel to eliminate any uncertainty... Cheers https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...48019de66b.jpg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...987c427a90.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a16e3dfce1.jpg |
MaxDB the second picture shows two stacked sprockets in the second lowest gear! Are you comparing the wear?
Are the Maillards freewheels? As in screw on as opposed to their cassette like offering. |
N.B. If it were my bike, I'd ditch the Maillard freewheel and go with a modern one with profiled teeth on the sprockets. |
The cogs are an optical illusion. The cogs look a little worn to me. I would try a different freewheel and see. The KMC chain is nice but I have found a NOS Sedis works wonders if you can find one. A picture taken directly from the rear would be nice so we can see the alignment. How are the pulleys on the der.?
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Originally Posted by MaxDB
(Post 21632755)
You are totally correct! I was mistaking with an old suntour freewheel I removed before, this one is Maillard.
I have 2 other Maillards laying around but need to clean them before trying. See attached better photos. I might order a Subrace 6sp freewheel to eliminate any uncertainty... Cheers https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...987c427a90.jpg |
Thanks for the answers guys. Yes indeed optical illusion. See pics below. I'll try to clean the other Maillards asap but I'm working on girlfriends bike for the moment so might not be this week.
Probably better off ordering a new freewheel and then see without bothering with the used stuff and end up cursing even more 😂 https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a21028dad3.jpg Well spotted about the campy hub btw 😆 https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c2acaa4622.jpg Jockey wheels are also brand new from Tacx |
Are you running a triple? where is the chain line here? Full side pic maybe? and do you wax your chain?
BTW, love the color and polish... |
remember a new chain on a worn freewheel makes the skipping/jumping problem worse
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Originally Posted by steve sumner
(Post 21633761)
remember a new chain on a worn freewheel makes the skipping/jumping problem worse
Sometimes it can be staved off by adding a chain link and/or moving the wheel back slightly to get a bit more wrap around the teeth. I usually figured two chains per freewheel. IOW, starting with new chain and freewheel, ride the first chain for about 5000 miles, replace with chain #2 , ride another 5000 miles. Then toss both chain and freewheel and start over. This assumes the chain and freewheel etc is cleaned and lubricated regularly. A dirty or over-oiled chain will drastically shorten drivetrain life. |
My thought, maybe mentioned already - KMC 6-7-8 speed chain. 6-speed FW. But that looks like it could be an old 6-speed FW, not a narrow 6 with the same spacing as a 7 or 8-speed. Easy way to check - the dropout spacing, If it is 120mm, tha tis old school 6-speed. 120mm means it is the newer, narrow 6 and the same as 7 and 8.
The chains for old school 6-speeds were the same 3/16" chains that had been used for decades. Narrow 6, 7s ans higher required narrower chains. The newer narrow chains might run over the older freewheels but it is not guaranteed. The solution might be as simple as getting the older standard chain (which I am sure KMC makes, QBP carries and any bike shop can get). If you have calipers,,use those first. (120mm = 4 3/4", 126mm = 4 15/16") A little history - 1976: all derailleur chains were 3/16". Freewheels were 5-speed and ran in 120mm dropouts or 6-speed of the same wide spacing in 126mm dropouts. 1977 SunTour previewed the Superbe line-up. Also a narrow 6-speed Winner FW that fit in 120mm dropouts. The narrow 7-speed for 126 soon followed. (I worked in a Fuji shop in 1977. The Fuji Pros with their Suberbe grupps were gorgeous but were old-school 6-speed. We had the narrow 6 FWs in stock. Next year I was n a different shop, post head injury, so I wasn't in a place to see what Fuji and SunTour were doing other than I had just received my replacement Fuji Pro with its 126 spacing. All my wheels were 120 and I had enough on my hands that I simply asked the mechanic to shrink my Fuji to 120. (I know - horrors!) Ben |
Originally Posted by 79pmooney
(Post 21633833)
The chains for old school 6-speeds were the same 3/16" chains that had been used for decades.
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Fresh chain, worn freewheel... might work on the stand but skip under a road test.
many of the sprockets on this freewheel can be flipped, they are symmetrical and slide on. Not all of them though. Freewheel cogs do not last forever. Super Power... last time I read that it was in reference to late Steam era locomotives by Lima. |
Personally I can't imagine having a Maillard or Regina freewheel on a bike I want to ride. Been pretty much a practice since the late 70's for me to toss the things ASAP.
and Atom's too naturally but that might just be me of course - always looking for the easy way out :cheers: |
Originally Posted by 79pmooney
(Post 21633833)
My thought, maybe mentioned already - KMC 6-7-8 speed chain. 6-speed FW. But that looks like it could be an old 6-speed FW, not a narrow 6 with the same spacing as a 7 or 8-speed. Easy way to check - the dropout spacing, If it is 120mm, tha tis old school 6-speed. 120mm means it is the newer, narrow 6 and the same as 7 and 8.
The chains for old school 6-speeds were the same 3/16" chains that had been used for decades. Narrow 6, 7s ans higher required narrower chains. The newer narrow chains might run over the older freewheels but it is not guaranteed. The solution might be as simple as getting the older standard chain (which I am sure KMC makes, QBP carries and any bike shop can get). If you have calipers,,use those first. (120mm = 4 3/4", 126mm = 4 15/16") A little history - 1976: all derailleur chains were 3/16". Freewheels were 5-speed and ran in 120mm dropouts or 6-speed of the same wide spacing in 126mm dropouts. 1977 SunTour previewed the Superbe line-up. Also a narrow 6-speed Winner FW that fit in 120mm dropouts. The narrow 7-speed for 126 soon followed. (I worked in a Fuji shop in 1977. The Fuji Pros with their Suberbe grupps were gorgeous but were old-school 6-speed. We had the narrow 6 FWs in stock. Next year I was n a different shop, post head injury, so I wasn't in a place to see what Fuji and SunTour were doing other than I had just received my replacement Fuji Pro with its 126 spacing. All my wheels were 120 and I had enough on my hands that I simply asked the mechanic to shrink my Fuji to 120. (I know - horrors!) Ben I did have to widen the dropouts so yes it was 120mm with old 6speed.
Originally Posted by canopus
(Post 21633010)
Are you running a triple? where is the chain line here? Full side pic maybe? and do you wax your chain?
BTW, love the color and polish... Thanks!
Originally Posted by Salamandrine
(Post 21633812)
Yep. That can happen. Freewheel skipping is the classic indication of worn out teeth. Usually it isn't obvious to the eye.
Sometimes it can be staved off by adding a chain link and/or moving the wheel back slightly to get a bit more wrap around the teeth. I usually figured two chains per freewheel. IOW, starting with new chain and freewheel, ride the first chain for about 5000 miles, replace with chain #2 , ride another 5000 miles. Then toss both chain and freewheel and start over. This assumes the chain and freewheel etc is cleaned and lubricated regularly. A dirty or over-oiled chain will drastically shorten drivetrain life. I have received new 14-24 and a 14-28 FW's by mail so one of those will be used to avoid any damage or wreckage because of the skipping :D. Thank you all for the answers and help! Much appreciated! |
Originally Posted by Steel Charlie
(Post 21636376)
Personally I can't imagine having a Maillard or Regina freewheel on a bike I want to ride. Been pretty much a practice since the late 70's for me to toss the things ASAP.
and Atom's too naturally but that might just be me of course - always looking for the easy way out :cheers: |
The unfortunate truth was that Regina, Maillard, et., were inferior products compared to those from Japan. It did not take long for the market to realize that and adjust accordingly. If I want to use old freewheels (and I do on three bikes) I prefer to not indulge in any semi-masoochistic activities and use instead Shimano products. Works for me but JMO of course
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Originally Posted by Steel Charlie
(Post 21640680)
The unfortunate truth was that Regina, Maillard, et., were inferior products compared to those from Japan. It did not take long for the market to realize that and adjust accordingly. If I want to use old freewheels (and I do on three bikes) I prefer to not indulge in any semi-masoochistic activities and use instead Shimano products. Works for me but JMO of course
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How about the chainrings? Are they in good shape? I had a chainring that was worn enough to cause skipping under force and when I replaced it everything was good again. It is worth taking a look at it.
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Originally Posted by MaxDB
(Post 21640850)
Which Shimano FW's do you exactly use for your bikes? I've bought Sunrace 6speeds now
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