merziac

It isn't that tight and you loosen the clamp once it cracks loose, like I said, this method has NEVER failed, damaged ANY tools, parts, frames or body parts ever, period.

merziac

Agreed on the Sheldon method, it needs to go just right when they don't want to come loose.

3alarmer 

...sorry. I guess assumed you needed to replace it for some reason. Never, ever remove a fixed cup unless you need to replace it. No upside to it. Yes, do this.

3alarmer 

...nothing at all. It just doesn't work for stubborn fixed cups. It works sometimes on the easier ones.

merziac

You calling me old!

Probably am and have had a lot of success with old wisdom in 50+ years of bikes, cars professionally, drag racing motorcycles and much else.

Whenever I get stuck I stop and think what would so and so have done, many had their own way of doing things and much of it was passed down to them, there is no substitute for experience and we all add our own to the secret sauce.

I have brewed up a lot of it over the years, my main tennant is do no harm, I want to save all the parts when able and not create more work from butchering anything.

If you break or mangle any more parts, they may be the one you can't get in a timely manner on the side of the road, at the track or even in your shop and in the case of much of this, you may not be able to find it at all.

This is my reason for getting it all apart without hurting anything else and that facilitates doing so more often when it really counts.

noglider 

I've used @cyccommute's method with success. I've also SOMETIMES succeeded at putting the cup in the vise. I've never been defeated by a fixed cup, and I've never used a torch for anything. I have used some pretty long levers.

robertj298 

Not according to Sheldon Brown "The fixed cup should only be removed when it is going to be replaced with another one, as when replacing an entire crankset."

merziac

Tell that to the next person who thinks "the whole bike has been gone through" only to find out the fixed cup is bad, stuck and no one can get it out or worse, they screw it up trying and ruin the frame.

The Great Sheldon is not the be all, end all and I am glad he was here, lots of great research, thoughts and data, much of his work was tempered by shop mentality (get it done and hope you don't screw it up) and in that light it was what it was.

Its of course entirely up to you but I can tell you that at some point it will not serve you well. I have always challenged myself to do it right, go the extra mile and get it better than right from my experience.

When I bought the Sugino tools the guy said "do you know what you're doing?", I said I hope so, turns out I did, they wouldn't make the tools if it shouldn't come apart.

robertj298 

Well I didn't feel like spending a ton of money on tools I may never use again.I could clean and inspect the cup from the other side with a bright led light.
It looked and felt fine.I've done 5 this past year and removed the cup on all of them with no problem. None of them were bad.This bike was difficult.
I even had to use a breaker bar on the crank puller to remove them and it was all I could do to do that.

merziac

I get it and mean no disrespect but have been doing this sort of thing all my life. It is a skill and thought process that can serve you well when you get in a bind like this.

Guess I'm not sure if you have the good BB tools yet but if you do, you only need a clamp, piece of wood and pipe or the like for a cheater bar. Even the BB wrench is not that expensive and the rest can be had fairly cheap so...

You asked for help and I opened the can of worms, many say never, I say always, its in my DNA that has served me very well over a lifetime at work, at home, at the dragstrip where you have very little time to make the next round without blowing it up again, on the road and everywhere in between.

You may very well not use the tools again but that's the beauty of tools, they'll get the job done when you do need them and you won't be in this particular predicament again.

And practice makes perfect so even harder one's get done as well.

Reynolds 

I agree. Another case would be to repaint the frame. You can easily clean and inspect the fixed cup without removing it.

SurferRosa

Never had to do that.

Leave the tool in the crank, back off the threaded portion of the tool, reapply grease to the tool, and try again with a normal sized wrench handle.

I only remove the fixed cup if I need to remove the bb from the rebuild for any number of reasons.
​​​​​

cyccommute 

I’ve done something similar to your method and found it cumbersome. Yes, you can just loosen the clamp but with my method you don’t have to loosen anything. You just unscrew the fixed cup and take it off. It won’t damage anything either.

cyccommute 

Yes, you can leave the fixed cup in the frame. It’s not an issue unless something is wrong with cup. As others have pointed out, you may need to remove it at some point, however.

merziac

Glad your deal works for you, not sure what is cumbersome about a setup that works so well it never fails. Guess it can be better to keep it simple for some.

headwind15

As A Bike Shop owner for over 12 years mechanic for many more. I can tell with certainty that the (fixed /right) cup is 100% reverse threaded, period. If you are just greasing it up there is no real reason to remove it.

merziac

So you're not really talking about C+V?

And BB overhaul labor doesn't include R+R the fixed cup, ever?

cyccommute 

What is complicated about the way I’ve suggested doing it? The only thing ”complicated” about it is finding the parts. A fender washer isn’t hard to find, hardware stores have tons of them. Nor is it hard to find a spare bottom bracket cup. A washer stack could be used as well. The bolts or nuts (depending on which spindle it has) come from the crank.

merziac

Nothing complicated about yours for you, just like I don't find mine cumbersome for me.

I had everything on hand when I started doing this so no trip to the hardware store at all.

They both work just fine for each of us.

I don't like to use any existing parts as part of the tool in case it goes wrong and compromises any of them.

Like you I have been doing this a long time and have screwed up plenty along the way but this is not one of the things I have screwed up since using this method.

Success begets success so I'm sticking with it.

3alarmer 

...if you are going to repaint a frame anyway, and that's why you're pulling the fixed cup, a MAPP gas torch is like that lever Archimedes talks about that will move the world. You just need a place to stand.

etherhuffer 

If its hard to remove now, it will be worse later is how I figure it. Try a seized nylon drain plug in a 1984 diesel oil-water separator. I figured better to overhaul it when I knew it was toast instead of some day heading down the road and hearing the buzzer come on. And on old bikes, any modern lube/anti seize/lock tite product is going to be far better than ancient factory lube.

nlerner

I’m lucky to have a Stein fixed cup tool, which holds the fixed cup wrench in place, allowing me to whack it with a hammer. I got it cheap on eBay many years ago.

3alarmer 

...on RH threaded fixed cups (French and Italian), unless it's installed in the shell so tightly that it is a nightmare to remove it, they have an unfortunate tendency to back out under use. If you've never had this happen to you, consider yourself fortunate, because it usually happens far from home. Personally, I install them now with blue Loctite and a lot off torque with the Hozan tool.

I'm absolutely certain that some time in the future, when I am dead and buried, someone will start a thread here about one of my bikes they bought cheap at the estate sale. But they can't get the fixed cup out and start the thread to ***** about the ******* who put it in there so tightly. And so it goes.

Chombi1 

If you will be using the "turn the frame on a bech vise" method. Be sure to only do it on the highest, best quality vise you can find as to avoid and deflection between the two vise jaws that can happen on cheap smaller vises. Also try to find a vise with the flattest ND sharpest jaw edges you can find (Preferably no knurling or serrations), to get full engagement on the fixed cup flats, to avoid any possibility of slippage. I used to have my brother hold on to the rear stay and the down tube of the bike and put his weight on it while I turn the frame off the fixed cup. I never got defeated by any fixed cup, using this method.

polymorphself 

I just used the vice method for this for the first time this week. Luckily I have a bike co-cop across the street. Worked like a charm.