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2020 Rivendell Roadini

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2020 Rivendell Roadini

Old 08-20-20, 03:22 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by squirtdad View Post
interesting, and typical that is is a mix of lugs and tig construction......... rivendell does it's own thing looks like fun
The Roadini uses the same mix of lugs and TIG as the Clem Smith Jr. that I've been riding for a few years now.

I think they were smart choices for a lower price point Rivendell frame, and I like them. A TIG'ed BB shell is almost better because lugs down there aren't much fun to clean. Lug is good for the seat because TIG'ed seat clusters are ugly and you'd need a seatpost clamp thing. A real fork crown because no one wants a unicrown, and Riv fork crowns are so styley. Almost no point to buying a Rivendell without a cool fork crown. The decorative reinforcing rings on the head shell look as nice as lugs but in a different way, and a TIG'd headshell is reliable and cheaper.
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Old 08-20-20, 03:23 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by mongol777 View Post
I still like All City frames a lot but I find them overbuilt as well - had Nature Boy in Reynolds 853, same story.
And the more bikes I ride the more I realize that while nice tubing is nice to have - geo, fit, right gearing for the job (SS or multi) and tires trump everything else for me.
A few years ago I took a framebuilding class taught by a local builder. I told him I wanted an 853 road frame and he explained the reasons why that was a bad idea for me. We settled on Zona and its been fantastic. Through the class, I learned a ton about tubing details through the last 40 years and realized exactly what you mentioned- its nice to have, but geometry and fit are exponentially more important. I came out with a frameset that is lighter than anything production in my size and with geometry that I wanted and like so it feels great to me.
A couple years later while shopping for a new gravel frame, I settled on a Fairlight Secan frame with 853 main tubes in spite of the tubing selection. I chose it specifically for the geometry(stack, reach, bb drop, and trail) that I wanted. I knew since its a production 853 frame that it would be overbuilt and boy is it. The finish quality is excellent(tidy welded main frame and brazed rear triangle) and its absolutely exactly what I want, but if I didnt know ahead of time, I would have been disappointed in the weight. They(like every other production 853 gravel frame Ive seen) use an 853 DZB downtube which is basically strong enough for a bulldozer to roll over and it wont deform. Its necessary to pass the Euro failure tests.

Anyways, point is- you nailed it with your realization. geometry, fit, and tires are the 3 most important things.
Its tough in this forum because back in the day there was just such little geometry data provided and so the visible tubing sticker is instead an easy point to focus in on for differentiating frames, quality, etc.
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Old 08-20-20, 04:15 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
A few years ago I took a framebuilding class taught by a local builder. I told him I wanted an 853 road frame and he explained the reasons why that was a bad idea for me. We settled on Zona and its been fantastic. Through the class, I learned a ton about tubing details through the last 40 years and realized exactly what you mentioned- its nice to have, but geometry and fit are exponentially more important. I came out with a frameset that is lighter than anything production in my size and with geometry that I wanted and like so it feels great to me.
A couple years later while shopping for a new gravel frame, I settled on a Fairlight Secan frame with 853 main tubes in spite of the tubing selection. I chose it specifically for the geometry(stack, reach, bb drop, and trail) that I wanted. I knew since its a production 853 frame that it would be overbuilt and boy is it. The finish quality is excellent(tidy welded main frame and brazed rear triangle) and its absolutely exactly what I want, but if I didnt know ahead of time, I would have been disappointed in the weight. They(like every other production 853 gravel frame Ive seen) use an 853 DZB downtube which is basically strong enough for a bulldozer to roll over and it wont deform. Its necessary to pass the Euro failure tests.

Anyways, point is- you nailed it with your realization. geometry, fit, and tires are the 3 most important things.
Its tough in this forum because back in the day there was just such little geometry data provided and so the visible tubing sticker is instead an easy point to focus in on for differentiating frames, quality, etc.
I was very close to pulling the trigger on Secan or Strael a year or two ago, could not decide which one and I think I bought All City GM (first year color orange fade, bi-plane crown and steel fork sold me). I think if the shipping and exchange rate were a bit lower - Fairlight are great frames for the money. Not sure if you saw their latest pdf on new Faran - I don't recall any manufacturer giving so much techincal details, including tubing choices.

And I am so envy - first thing I plan to do when I retire is take framebuilding class. Still many years to go but a good goal in my mind!

Btw, Paul Brodie now has youtube channel and it is very good content
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Old 08-20-20, 04:17 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
The Roadini uses the same mix of lugs and TIG as the Clem Smith Jr. that I've been riding for a few years now.

I think they were smart choices for a lower price point Rivendell frame, and I like them. A TIG'ed BB shell is almost better because lugs down there aren't much fun to clean. Lug is good for the seat because TIG'ed seat clusters are ugly and you'd need a seatpost clamp thing. A real fork crown because no one wants a unicrown, and Riv fork crowns are so styley. Almost no point to buying a Rivendell without a cool fork crown. The decorative reinforcing rings on the head shell look as nice as lugs but in a different way, and a TIG'd headshell is reliable and cheaper.
I think you nailed it - TIG/lugs mix is nice and classy looking but in a different way. I know some folks on RBW and iBob expressed their displeasure at that mix but I personally like it.

And please - post your Clem!
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Old 08-20-20, 04:32 PM
  #30  
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Awesome build for your Roadini.

Here is an older Roadini I built up for my wife for her Christmas present in 2018. 32mm tires, Rene Herse crankset, and Record 10sp, also came in at around 23lbs. Not that happy with the fabric bar tape and cabling showing underneath it, but the end-use customer is OK with it.




Any other Roadini builds out there?
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Old 08-20-20, 05:19 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
Very nice! Congratulations on your new bike. Looks great. Did GP use more fork rake than normal, or is that just the bend fulling me? Almost looks like Riv is exploring semi lower trail. . . .
I could be wrong, but I think Riv/Grant Petersen thinking is in terms of longer wheelbases for a comfy, stable ride than in terms of lower trail per se.

I took a (very short) test spin on a built up Roadini. I can only describe the ride as "plush," and I mean that in a good way. I suspect it would be one the most all-day comfy bikes any of us have ever been on whilst not giving up anything meaningful in terms of speed, stiffness, liveliness, handling or any other riding characteristics. I am not in the market for anything - I am very happy with my bikes - but if they all disappeared, I would give very serious consideration to getting a Roadini as a cost-effective, fun way to get back on the road.
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Old 08-20-20, 07:48 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by billridesbikes View Post
Awesome build for your Roadini.

Here is an older Roadini I built up for my wife for her Christmas present in 2018. 32mm tires, Rene Herse crankset, and Record 10sp, also came in at around 23lbs. Not that happy with the fabric bar tape and cabling showing underneath it, but the end-use customer is OK with it.




Any other Roadini builds out there?
What a great looking build! Thank you for sharing!
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Old 08-20-20, 07:56 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by bikingshearer View Post
I could be wrong, but I think Riv/Grant Petersen thinking is in terms of longer wheelbases for a comfy, stable ride than in terms of lower trail per se.

I took a (very short) test spin on a built up Roadini. I can only describe the ride as "plush," and I mean that in a good way. I suspect it would be one the most all-day comfy bikes any of us have ever been on whilst not giving up anything meaningful in terms of speed, stiffness, liveliness, handling or any other riding characteristics. I am not in the market for anything - I am very happy with my bikes - but if they all disappeared, I would give very serious consideration to getting a Roadini as a cost-effective, fun way to get back on the road.
So that is one of the many things which sold me on Roadini. I long chased bikes with shortest chainstays possible but started to change my mind about 2-3 years ago - first ride on friend's Miyata 1000 and follow find and purchase of my own and I think last year or year before - 2006 Marinoni Ciclo with chainstays on the longish side. At the time I was using strava and it was suprising to see that my average speed on those two was higher and I was fresh at the end of long rides. Now riding Leo - long chainstays work for me. Of course it is only one part of many but I am glad I have that option.

I also run across the article or blog post about a guy who used his Karate Monkey for everything, inlcuding ultra long distance rides with skinny road tires. And I do have KM as well and with skinnier tires and wheel all the way back - have to measure but chainstay look on the long side. And it is one of my fav bikes. I am still keeping my Chromag Surface and couple of other mtbs with chainstays on the short side for offroad riding but I keep an open mind and will potentially give one of the RIv hillbikes a try.
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Old 08-20-20, 08:18 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by mongol777 View Post
I think you nailed it - TIG/lugs mix is nice and classy looking but in a different way. I know some folks on RBW and iBob expressed their displeasure at that mix but I personally like it.

And please - post your Clem!
I think if you're a super traditionalist, the mix is going to rankle some feathers, but I like it too.

OK, I've posted it before many times, but since it's relevant to this thread, here it is again.
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Old 08-20-20, 08:27 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by bikingshearer View Post
I could be wrong, but I think Riv/Grant Petersen thinking is in terms of longer wheelbases for a comfy, stable ride than in terms of lower trail per se.

I took a (very short) test spin on a built up Roadini. I can only describe the ride as "plush," and I mean that in a good way. I suspect it would be one the most all-day comfy bikes any of us have ever been on whilst not giving up anything meaningful in terms of speed, stiffness, liveliness, handling or any other riding characteristics. I am not in the market for anything - I am very happy with my bikes - but if they all disappeared, I would give very serious consideration to getting a Roadini as a cost-effective, fun way to get back on the road.
While I also enjoy a longer wheelbase bike, that's not what I was referring to. I was talking about the front end steering geometry only. GP, if you read his blogs, has long been an advocate of longer trail steering geometry. This is somewhat traditional geometry for old mountain bikes and many British, Japanese, and American touring bikes. He has resisted the fashion for 'low trail' (AKA caster) as endorsed by BQ and many Francophiles. There are plenty of discussions about this forum I'm sure. I mention this only because the fork appears to have a healthy amount of rake, which, all other things being equal, will make the trail lower.
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Old 08-20-20, 09:13 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
I think if you're a super traditionalist, the mix is going to rankle some feathers, but I like it too.

OK, I've posted it before many times, but since it's relevant to this thread, here it is again.
I am in love with the seatstays on your bike - cool bend! Very nice build! Thank you for sharing.
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Old 08-20-20, 09:17 PM
  #37  
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GP is super-picky about forks. He likes a rake bend that starts low on the blade and describes a nicely-radiused curve that continues all the way to the dropout. This makes the fork look like it has a longer rake than it does.

--Shannon
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Old 08-20-20, 09:39 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by ShannonM View Post
GP is super-picky about forks. He likes a rake bend that starts low on the blade and describes a nicely-radiused curve that continues all the way to the dropout. This makes the fork look like it has a longer rake than it does.
Yeah that most likely is the case here. I somehow doubt GP has changed his mind on the subject. We are overdue for another discussion on high trail vs low trail vs mid trail.

I appreciate someone who is super picky about stuff that really matters - like the precise shape of a bend in a raked fork.
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Old 08-21-20, 07:12 AM
  #39  
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This is my new Rodini build.

I just built this one up myself, Took almost two months from the time I ordered it until I got it but worth the wait. I need to take better photos. Also I finally got the front Derailleur on. I have a clicking noise in my front BB or crank so I may end up replacing it with a newer Ultegra setup. I did a 28 mile ride the other day and was so comfortable the whole ride it was sick!
Sorry for the blurry colossal photos.


Originally Posted by mongol777 View Post
TLR - what an awesome frame! Love it!

I had quite a few modern off the shelf road and roadish steel bikes. To name a few - All City Mr Pink and Space Horse, Soma Smoothies and the one with fancy chrome lugs, Surly Pacer, Crosschek. Only noting the ones with rim brakes.
All good riders and if I were to rate them - liked All City the most, Surly close second and Soma's were OK. Soma's rode good but the 3 I had - all had small but annoying QA issues like slipping seatposts

Riv Roadini always intrigued me - liked the design, threaded fork and quill stem but there was not a lot of reviews/feedback out there. And I always wanted to try Riv

2020 model has increased tire clearance to 38 and I pulled the trigger. Sold Mr Pink and my Roadini frame arrived last week.

Dealt with Will at Riv and he was awesome. My order came in right in the midst of very crazy time for them so took ~2-3 weeks to process it but once shipped - got to Canada in about 3 days.
Couple of cons, well only for one for me - Riv shipped to Canada using DHL. Shipping was ~$240-250 USD which is quite a bit hire compared to say Mike Varley @BMC. On the plus side - super fast, no damage to the box and I was able to prepay customs ($174CAD) online. So my total was $900USD for the frame + shipping and taxes. Is the frame worth it - riding draft build for couple of days now I can say that yes, it is totally worth it to me.

Now to the build - apologies for the pics quality, I will post better when bars are wrapped, etc.
- Riv ships Roadini with FSA headset (very nice), seat post and Shimano UN-55 BB, 110mm. Unfortunately spindle is too short for the crank/rings I am using - SunXCD arms and VO 46/30 rings. Inner bolts rub the chainstay on the drive side. Very minor rub but can't ride it like that. Luckily I had Token bb which is also stamped as 110 but spindle is may be 0.75-1mm longer and it is perfect
- Riv does not include BB cable guide. But as many on this forum I usually have enough parts in the parts bin to build several bikes so I had extra guide. Correction - Riv got back to me and they do include BB guides but were out of stock with no ETA from Shimano. So they chose to rush frame to me - which was absolutely right move for me!
- I went with VO dark green housing which matches green frame accents very nicely. Good stuff but I also wanted to use brass ferrules from Riv and they do fit on brake cable housing but on on shifter housing from VO. They do fit over regular Shimano though. Another con with VO housing - shifter ones are short and not enough to do full aero routing tucked under tape.
- I usually like to criss cross cables and route RD cable through non-drive side DT cable stop and FD through driveside. For this build I am using Shimano BB cable guide and in that combo and routing - cables were rubbing underside of DT. So I reverted to more common routing
- Saddle is what I had on hand but final version will have B17 copper green (dark green with copper riverts and rails)
- For the tape - originally thought about light blue or brown Newbaum but found Greentips (on recommendations from Analogcycles) in dark green and what Analogcycles say is true - feels much nicer and softer compared to somewhat rough Newbaum. Will see how it holds up
- Brakes - massive clearance thanks to improved 2020 frame clearance. Went with TRP RG941s (Thanks to Mike Varley's post where he compares clearance on his road frame between VO, TRP and Tektros)
- Wheelset - I laced H+Son TB14 to Ultegra hubs but decided to use them on Centurion I just got and using Shimano Ultegra wheelset I had as a spare for Roadini.
- Tires - Challenge Bianca Strada, 700x36, 260TPI and measure exactly at 36mm actual
- FD is Shimano CX70 and RD is 105 5700 long cage, cassette is shimano something mtb 11-36
- Rest of the build is pretty simple - Nitto Technomic 70mm, Noodles (46, heat treated), TRP levers

Future plans - B17 in dark green with copper rails as mentioned above and probably Honjo brass fenders. Just based on quick measurements - 45mm fenders will fit perfect in the back and may require slight crimping to fit the fork.

Ride is awesome - first day I rode with pretty high pressure for these tires, around 55 psi front and 60 psi in the back and frame just soaks up the chatter. Goes when I hammer and I can see going for miles and miles on it, very comfortable and sure footed. And not a boat anchor, no dead feeling - lively frame.

Weight - compared just by hand after taking out BB and seatpost, it felt lighter vs All Mr Pink (55cm with headset installed as well). If I recall correct - frameset (Roadini) with headset was hovering around 7 lbs mark (my Roadini is Rivs's size 54). Weight as pictured (still missing cable caps, tape) - just over 23 lbs. But on the road it feels much lighter, closest to Marinoni Ciclo which is around 21 lbs and 1993 Cannondale R400 which is just around 20 lbs, both on skinnier tires (700x28 and 700x25 respectively). Full disclosure - I am using simple luggage scales so your results may vary from mine.



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Old 08-21-20, 07:16 AM
  #40  
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Should never have sold this beauty. 96 Road Standard, fairly early in the model run, respray by Joe Bell:

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Old 08-21-20, 10:43 AM
  #41  
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Thank you jstar1000 and rccaard for sharing!
rccadr - I made some selling decisions I deeply regret as well. So I hear you! One was with happy ending - my first real (ie non walmart bso) frame was Karate Monkey. And at some point I decided that I am done with it, it is not being ridden, etc and sold it. 3-4 years later regret hit me fast and deep Luckily I sold via pinkbike so tracked down the guy, paid buy back premium and its been bacnk with me now for several years. Got CK BB as a bonus!
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Old 09-03-20, 08:50 AM
  #42  
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Finished for now. Could not find B17 in green copper special for reasonable price and/or in stock so went with GB Mente. Never had GB saddle before so we'll see how it feels. Schedule is crazy so was only able to try it for ~10km quick ride in the morning. Feels quite different from B17 which I am very used to and have on at least 5 of my bikes. But good different - firm, no hammock feeling, comfortable from get go. Leather is thicker vs B17, quality is impeccable, very well done and I believe it is the cheapest saddle they have.
I mentioned GreenGrips bar tape in another thread - my new favorite bar tape, smooth and comfortable, very easy to apply (it has narrow strip of adhesive right in the middle so no fighting folds and creases compared to Newbaum).
Last missing pieces are fenders. I have SKS in dark green with light green stripes I think they match the frame very well. Front flap is non-existent so I ordered extension from SKS, should arrive today. Will try and see how I feel about them on that bike. Second option at extra $$$ are Honjo's H31 in brass finish.





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Old 09-03-20, 09:51 AM
  #43  
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Golly gee willickers, that looks like a fun ride! Very nicely done.

I sometimes feel like I'm more in tune with 1995-2000 Grant/Riv than where he's gone since, but his frames are always exceedingly well thought-out, practical and distinctive. And often lovely. There's plenty to argue about, and detail nits to pick, if you want to be argumentative and nit-picky, but the same is true for most product from other builders/designers.
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Old 09-03-20, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by pcb View Post
Golly gee willickers, that looks like a fun ride! Very nicely done.

I sometimes feel like I'm more in tune with 1995-2000 Grant/Riv than where he's gone since, but his frames are always exceedingly well thought-out, practical and distinctive. And often lovely. There's plenty to argue about, and detail nits to pick, if you want to be argumentative and nit-picky, but the same is true for most product from other builders/designers.
Oh, it is so much fun - I love it!
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Old 09-03-20, 12:00 PM
  #45  
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That is one beautiful bike. Obviously fenders are important if you're going to be riding in anything but perfect conditions, but from strictly a style standpoint, kind of too bad IMO, this bike looks so pure without them.
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Old 09-03-20, 12:09 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by mongol777 View Post
Long time SS fan here! I started adding geared bikes not that long ago and most of my fleet is either SS or FG. So I am OK with verticals on this one :-) and if I ever change my mind - I have couple of ENO hubs stashed in top secret drawer
Some day I want to get Mercian with track fork ends at the back (or dropouts as folks commonly call them)
Yeah, Iíve changed my mind. This could be the geared bike. Downtube shifter, 42 in front, five cogs 14-24 in back and my old Cyclone RD. With a freehub you can do most whatever you want.

And I like the orange. I have burnt orange bar tape on the blue Sprint SS.

Otto
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Old 09-03-20, 12:21 PM
  #47  
bOsscO
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Bike looks rad; enjoy.
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Old 09-03-20, 02:29 PM
  #48  
mongol777
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Originally Posted by BucksFanPedalin View Post
That is one beautiful bike. Obviously fenders are important if you're going to be riding in anything but perfect conditions, but from strictly a style standpoint, kind of too bad IMO, this bike looks so pure without them.
I am sucker for fenders and I ride year round so most of my bikes have them with exception of several of MTBs - prefer dry trails or snow so I don't ruin local singletrack when it is raining.
But I hear you so my be this one will be left naked
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Old 09-03-20, 03:08 PM
  #49  
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Looking good! I'd be interested in an update on the Berthoud saddle after you've ridden it for a while. And an update on the bike itself of course.

It may be challenging to get fenders to play nice with those dual pivot TRP brakes, but it looks like you have a lot more clearance than I do on my Mercian Audax with the same brakes.
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Old 09-03-20, 06:42 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
Looking good! I'd be interested in an update on the Berthoud saddle after you've ridden it for a while. And an update on the bike itself of course.

It may be challenging to get fenders to play nice with those dual pivot TRP brakes, but it looks like you have a lot more clearance than I do on my Mercian Audax with the same brakes.
Thank you. So I did couple of rides today, totaling ~20km total. I can't get over how great GreenGrips tape is. Weather has been rain on/off last couple of days and I've been riding Centurion (fendered and Newbaums tape), Surly Bridgeclub (used to be drops but now Bosco bar with tape grips, Newbaum on top) and Roadini with GreenGrips tape. So back to back between Newbaum and GG - GG is 100% a winner, I like it a lot.
Bike - like it more and more with every ride. I actually went back to higher tire pressure because frame is so plush. It is fast when I push it, very confident descender and surprisingly good climber (whether seated and spinning or standing up and mashing up the hills). The only thing that I would've loved to have is 3rd bottle mount. Two is still better vs one on Centurion but I am so spoiled now by bikes like BMC MCD and BridgeClub with 4-3 bottle mounts. But summer is almost over and I most definitely will be using some sort of framebag/handlebar bag next summer for longer rides so should be OK.
And did I mention how pretty Roadini is?

GB Mente - had to adjust where I land my butt vs B17, a bit further back. Feels great from the get go and most comfortable when I sit upright. No surprise as GB markets it as upright saddle. When I go into drops - firmer top, no hammock feel and a bit wider nose definitely pronounce the difference compared to B17. But not in a bad way - just feels differen, still very comfy. I've been riding B17s forever so I think I am just so used to how it feels and know without thinking on where to land the butt.
Biggest difference - when I buy new B17 (which was often) it does have break-in period for me. Not long at all, I feel right at home after around 200km. I don't use any treatment. With GB - leather is thicker an firmer and again, not hammocky but still comfortable.
If weather cooperates and I can put another 200-300km this fall on it - will share how it feels compared to new B17 with similar mileage. Otherwise it'll have to wait till next summer as I will be riding fendered bikes more.

For fenders - I did a test fit of SKS fenders I mentioned, they fit just fine, plenty of space, no rubbing, caliper fit is great as well. But I was not thrilled with the looks - while they are green they look almost black, it is dark matte green with some metallic and light green metallis stripes. I'll think about it, SKS dimensions are pretty much the same as Honjos H31 so I may splurge for them next year.
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