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Suntour Superbe Pro Front Derailleur Clamp Removal

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Suntour Superbe Pro Front Derailleur Clamp Removal

Old 08-21-20, 09:35 AM
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kanawa
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Suntour Superbe Pro Front Derailleur Clamp Removal

Looking for help on how to remove this clamp. I知 stumped. Thx in advance

.
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Old 08-21-20, 10:12 AM
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The threaded part unscrews from the base.
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Old 08-21-20, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. 66 View Post
The threaded part unscrews from the base.

thx! Just grab the threaded post with pliers?
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Old 08-21-20, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by kanawa View Post
thx! Just grab the threaded post with pliers?
That would damage the threads. Options - (1) find a small square tool that will engage the square hole at the end of the studs. (2) thread two nuts onto the stud and lock them together, and turn with a wrench.
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Old 08-21-20, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by madpogue View Post
That would damage the threads. Options - (1) find a small square tool that will engage the square hole at the end of the studs. (2) thread two nuts onto the stud and lock them together, and turn with a wrench.
philips scewdriver works - thanks so much!!
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Old 08-22-20, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by kanawa View Post
Looking for help on how to remove this clamp. I知 stumped. Thx in advance

.
That's a nice purple!
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Old 08-22-20, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by kanawa View Post
philips scewdriver works - thanks so much!!
It's supposed to be a Phillips. I don't know why yours appears to have a square profile.
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Old 08-22-20, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by clubman View Post
It's supposed to be a Phillips. I don't know why yours appears to have a square profile.
It's actual JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard) +2. An American Phillips screwdriver can strip out the center of the screw, as seen here.

I've got one of these. https://www.amazon.com/Bessel-Vessel...1DN6RCZKMFXRB8
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Old 08-22-20, 11:37 AM
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That's interesting because I've only got one special 'Phillips' from a broadcast technicians set that always works and my others do tend to strip. I just assumed it was a Phillips driver but perhaps it's a JIS+2. Cool.
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Old 08-22-20, 12:47 PM
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I recently removed this same Suntour component. A regular Phillips screwdriver did not provide sufficient contact to turn the stud bolt. But the screwdriver bit on my Topeak mini tool fit the stud bolt perfectly and easily turned it for removal.

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Old 08-22-20, 05:52 PM
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Those clamps are a pain in the neck. Seems like solution in search of a problem engineering.
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Old 08-23-20, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Vintage_Cyclist View Post
Those clamps are a pain in the neck. Seems like solution in search of a problem engineering.

Yes! I used my Vessel Megadora and it came right out. Originally I tried an Allen wrench but that didn稚 work so I turned to you guys. Thx again!
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Old 08-23-20, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by The Golden Boy View Post
That's a nice purple!
its a new project. Came with a few decent correct appendages but lackluster front mech, brakes, levers, cockpit. Putting it right.

1983 Appel.
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Old 08-23-20, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by kanawa View Post

1983 Appel.
Sweet!!!
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Old 08-24-20, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Vintage_Cyclist View Post
Those clamps are a pain in the neck. Seems like solution in search of a problem engineering.
I've got a NIB Superbe front derailleur like this in my parts box... been waiting for a reason to use it. After about 30 years, you'd think that I'd find a chance to install it.

The clamp does look neat, but I agree that it looks more like something the marketing dept. came up with, and less like an engineer thought it actually solved a problem. This was the era of aerodynamics, and a lot of nutty designs were developed.
Considering how much the clamp deformed the paint in the photo, I'm a bit hesitant about using my Superbe with the band clamp.
Maybe it's not too bad if the paint is fully cured and hardened?

Steve in Peoria
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Old 08-24-20, 11:18 AM
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Yes, definitely starts as a Phillips, but the soft metal, combined with evidently a non-standard, Japanese Phillips size = frequently strips.

Originally Posted by clubman View Post
It's supposed to be a Phillips. I don't know why yours appears to have a square profile.
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Old 08-24-20, 11:26 AM
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I posted something about this design in a recent thread, in which the OP broke an earlier Cyclone/Spb fder clamp.

I think the design was meant to minimize broken clamps, minimize seat tube damage from over-torqued hinged clamps, while also being clever, elegant and lightweight. Also could be used for other applications, like attaching a top-of-toptube aero shifter.

Like a lot of designs in those days in Japan, the engineers assumed that proper tools (evidently a JIS #2 Phillips screwdriver, I never knew that), proper torque and care would be used during installation. They assumed that both shop mechanics and end users would actually read the instructions all the way through before attempting to install it.

Since that's not the way the world works, it did ultimately cause more problems than it solved.

Originally Posted by steelbikeguy View Post
I've got a NIB Superbe front derailleur like this in my parts box... been waiting for a reason to use it. After about 30 years, you'd think that I'd find a chance to install it.

The clamp does look neat, but I agree that it looks more like something the marketing dept. came up with, and less like an engineer thought it actually solved a problem. This was the era of aerodynamics, and a lot of nutty designs were developed.
Considering how much the clamp deformed the paint in the photo, I'm a bit hesitant about using my Superbe with the band clamp.
Maybe it's not too bad if the paint is fully cured and hardened?

Steve in Peoria
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Old 08-24-20, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by pcb View Post
I posted something about this design in a recent thread, in which the OP broke an earlier Cyclone/Spb fder clamp.

I think the design was meant to minimize broken clamps, minimize seat tube damage from over-torqued hinged clamps, while also being clever, elegant and lightweight. Also could be used for other applications, like attaching a top-of-toptube aero shifter.
.......
I've never actually used the endless band style of clamp, but I did feel like it offered an improvement over the conventional clamp-on shift lever. ...and let me insert a shot of my trusty old SunTour Powershifter as an example....


one problem with this style of clamp was that the user had to flex the steel band to fit over the down tube, which did fatigue the steel somewhat, and always felt like it was cracking the chrome plating.
the other problem was that the "ears" that the clamp bolt passed through tended to dig into the paint, often breaking the paint and promoting rust.

Like most things in design or engineering, there's no perfect solution. Each method has some sort of flaw or undesired characteristic.

Oh... I do have to apologize for the comment I made about the marketing department in my earlier post. As an engineer, I recognize that the marketing folks help encourage the public to buy products, whether they need the product or not. Those sales help keep us engineers employed, and it's important to acknowledge this.

Steve in Peoria
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Old 08-24-20, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by steelbikeguy View Post
I've never actually used the endless band style of clamp, but I did feel like it offered an improvement over the conventional clamp-on shift lever. ...and let me insert a shot of my trusty old SunTour Powershifter as an example....


one problem with this style of clamp was that the user had to flex the steel band to fit over the down tube, which did fatigue the steel somewhat, and always felt like it was cracking the chrome plating.
the other problem was that the "ears" that the clamp bolt passed through tended to dig into the paint, often breaking the paint and promoting rust.

Like most things in design or engineering, there's no perfect solution. Each method has some sort of flaw or undesired characteristic.

Oh... I do have to apologize for the comment I made about the marketing department in my earlier post. As an engineer, I recognize that the marketing folks help encourage the public to buy products, whether they need the product or not. Those sales help keep us engineers employed, and it's important to acknowledge this.

Steve in Peoria
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Old 08-24-20, 03:39 PM
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The trick to these clamp-mount accessories (bb/downtube-mount cable guides, dt/barcon housing stops) and components (usually dt shifters) is to start in the middle of the clamp and gently open up the radius, working thumb/fingers towards the ends. Kinda like how you spread a metal fender wider to narrow the fender radius around the wheel. What I always did was just grab the clamp ends and yank outwards, and the band would bend at its narrowest/weakest point. The Suntour clamp you show isn't so bad, since the band has a pretty consistent width, but it still often wants to bend sharply just above where the shifters mount.

Campy bands were worse, since they narrow significantly at one point, and always want to bend sharply there.

And the "ears" digging into the underside of the downtube is kinda unavoidable. I've thought about using a file to remove the sharp edges there, but I worry about removing too much metal and potentially weakening the clamp. And if you file away the outer plating, you're inviting more rust.


Originally Posted by steelbikeguy View Post
I've never actually used the endless band style of clamp, but I did feel like it offered an improvement over the conventional clamp-on shift lever. ...and let me insert a shot of my trusty old SunTour Powershifter as an example....


one problem with this style of clamp was that the user had to flex the steel band to fit over the down tube, which did fatigue the steel somewhat, and always felt like it was cracking the chrome plating.
the other problem was that the "ears" that the clamp bolt passed through tended to dig into the paint, often breaking the paint and promoting rust.

Like most things in design or engineering, there's no perfect solution. Each method has some sort of flaw or undesired characteristic.

Oh... I do have to apologize for the comment I made about the marketing department in my earlier post. As an engineer, I recognize that the marketing folks help encourage the public to buy products, whether they need the product or not. Those sales help keep us engineers employed, and it's important to acknowledge this.

Steve in Peoria
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Old 08-24-20, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by steelbikeguy View Post
Considering how much the clamp deformed the paint in the photo, I'm a bit hesitant about using my Superbe with the band clamp.
Maybe it's not too bad if the paint is fully cured and hardened?

Steve in Peoria



Photo of tube where the Superbe derailleur band was located (tube surface had been cleaned prior to photo). There are minor marks from the band, but really not much...paint color and lighting could also be variables.

It痴 worth noting the band was tight on the tube until unsprung for removal. So perhaps another consideration is the ease of placement and adjustment a hinged derailleur clamp affords.
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Old 08-28-20, 02:18 PM
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The endless band design definitely had a higher potential for damaging paint, especially scratching, and was difficult to reposition, even for relatively minor adjustments.

That said, I've never seen one crimp a seat tube, while I've seen plenty of crimped tubes from regular clamp-mount fders.

Originally Posted by cv350 View Post
Photo of tube where the Superbe derailleur band was located (tube surface had been cleaned prior to photo). There are minor marks from the band, but really not much...paint color and lighting could also be variables.

It痴 worth noting the band was tight on the tube until unsprung for removal. So perhaps another consideration is the ease of placement and adjustment a hinged derailleur clamp affords.
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Old 08-28-20, 02:24 PM
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Those endless band clamps are good for funny sized tubing like on French bikes, too. Vitus 979s, especially the early ones, needed a French sized clamp, but the Suntour would also work.

JIS screwdrivers are often used in the antique Honda motorcycle community. The alternative is to either switch to allen bolts, which takes away from the classic look of your motorcycle, or machine your own lookalike screws with ordinary Phillips heads, which I did. You can imagine most people choose to buy the screwdriver! If you have a friend with an old CB and the screws aren't all stripped, either they never work on it or they have the appropriate tool.
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Old 08-28-20, 04:17 PM
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Take an iron file to the sharp edges of the band before mounting. Apply grease to the seat tube. You won't have nearly the same issues with paint damage.

I like the way that big allen key fitting looks like a brazed on fd piece. Perfect for an '80s bike.
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Old 11-30-20, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by kanawa View Post
Looking for help on how to remove this clamp. I知 stumped. Thx in advance

.
I am looking for one of theses clamps. Let me know if you are getting rid of it.
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