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The Component Everyone Loves (Except You)

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The Component Everyone Loves (Except You)

Old 08-22-20, 10:22 AM
  #76  
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Originally Posted by dddd
Toe-clip pedals, especially for those of us with wide feet. Would be less of a problem if some of the vintage shoes could still be found today in robust condition.
Hear hear!!!

Forgot that one. Completely unneeded and entirely overrated.
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Old 08-22-20, 10:36 AM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine
FYI. It used to be a fairly commonly held view that galvanized spokes were superior and stainless spokes were for dandies or something. Believe it or not!

There weren't stainless cables in the old days, but the nice thing about galvanized cables it that it was easy to solder the ends. Cleaner look than cable ends.

The early Japanese stainless OEM spokes were often the worst thing imaginable, singlehandedly responsible for countless good Japanese bikes turning up without original wheels on them.

I've got old bikes with galvanized spokes that have serious miles on them with nary a spoke failure. Even some of the rusty-crusty plated spokes survived years of riding without one of them snapping.
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Old 08-22-20, 10:47 AM
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the 2-bolt seatpost is the BEST. it is the ONLY way to truly be MICRO adjustable.
discard the Campy wrench, the Dia-compe offset brake wrench is 12 point as opposed
to 6. it's also good to have a saddle that you can pull up on the sides. I never really found
that "magic" angle until I went 2-bolt. Avocet and JPR made 2-bolt posts that had bolt heads
that were accessed from below but they're not as strong as Campy
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Old 08-22-20, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by hazetguy
let's just get this out of the way early.

disc brakes
carbon fiber frames/forks
chain lube du jour

ok, no more discussion on these things
Sorry but gotta discuss. I donít have problems with carbon fiber forks...I have several of them on my bikes and especially my wifeís bike. Iím ambivalent on carbon frames and will probably never own one.

Chain lube should have its own section in the Forums so that it can be mostly ignored.

Finally disc brakes...and, for that matter, linear brakes. People have had been complaining about brakes since they were invented. Some are truly bad...spoon brakes, linkage brakes, coaster brakes, etc... but others are only poorly set up and/or people donít understand how to use their brakes. People think that braking is just pulling a lever but itís a whole lot more than that. Weight shifts will go a long way towards making brakes more effective.

I have cantilever, dual pivot side pulls, discs, and disc front with linear rear. I frankly donít notice any difference between any one of them. There isnít one that works better than the others in my experience. They all stop me when and where I need the to stop whether that is doing 50 mph on a rainy road off the top of the Smokey Mountains with a touring load (cantilever) or dropping 2000 feet over 4 miles on a road that is more rock than road (disc/linear) with a similar touring load.
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Old 08-22-20, 10:56 AM
  #80  
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Riser stems
Quill pedals and toe clips
Brooks saddles

Velo Orange anything

Bridgestone xo-1
Barcons.


wow, y'all really know how to stick it to a guy.





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Old 08-22-20, 10:58 AM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine
...Hmm, I suppose a lot of folks really like the old 'arabesque' parts, but I always thought they were hideous, and were at best adequate with regard to actual function. OTOH, I'm glad they were made, maybe just nostalgia...
I remember first seeing the Arabesque stuff back then, thinking what kind of pig in a poke gruppo is that?

Looked a little flimsy to my eye, and the brakes often felt flimsy. The freehub of that era often suffered partial failure of the FH body attachment in a non-critical way thankfully (made axle bearing adjustment into a tedious, iterative process involving multiple wheel installations).

But now I kind of like those parts, the crank is lightweight elegance and the rear derailer works ok up to six speeds with say 13-28t ratios. The whole gruppo was commendably light at a cheap enough price to find it's way onto a Ross "Professional" something or other and onto many an SR Semi-Pro. The Semi-Pro in total nearly mimicked a pro bike albeit a 24lb one (can't make myself sell mine).
A set of salmon-and-black Kool-Stop "MTB" pads bring the brakes around and eliminate the squishy feel.
Beware there was an OEM version Arabesque crankset, as shown below, having a swaged spider.

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Old 08-22-20, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by The Golden Boy
Shimano 600 Arabesque. Yeah, it looks pretty with all those squiggly etchings... But the crank, shifters, RD, levers and brakes are poop... none of it really shifts or brakes well. I like the hubs well enough.

KMC Chains- I honestly don't remember what I didn't like- I don't even know if I still have it... but I bought a SRAM to replace it.

Shimano L600 "fingertip control" bar end shifters. Neat concept... but once you use the Suntour versions- they're nicer.
This is why everything is so subjective. If a person likes feedback, they'll like the Suntours..............because they feel like driving an old farm tractor! Noisy, lots of resistance, rachety, etc. The L-600s though, like cruising in a old Caddy or Lincoln. No feedback at all. You have to trust that they work. You think it and it happens. Nothing more. That's what I like. I must be the only one.
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Old 08-22-20, 11:42 AM
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As a few others have said, naming something was a bit difficult. I wasn't going list something that I didn't have experience in (like NR/SR shifting/braking, or tubulars), and I didn't want to comment on modern components/trends as this is the C&V section. If I had to say for modern, then yeah, disc brakes as I've had some (Ultegra level, hydraulic) and the front fork feel under braking was unpleasant, the fork was way too stiff (even with 28s), it's a decidedly heavier setup, and the cost vs. convenience ratio was way off. Pads contaminate very quickly and bedding in new pads takes time, in addition to the expense of new pads. Braking was really no better than a good dual-pivot caliper. Finicky and noisy, easily. Kudos to those who have had much better luck/experience with them. Other than running them on a MTB, I will gladly pass on them for road/tour duty.
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Old 08-22-20, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Trakhak
(1) Grease both bolts. (2) Leave rear bolt loose; tighten front bolt (with special tool or just fingers) until saddle looks level when you press down on it at the rear. (3) Tighten rear bolt. (4) Repeat 2 and 3 (usually takes two or three tries) until saddle is at correct angle and secure.

I'll take a 2-bolt Campy seatpost over any 1-bolt seatpost I've ever encountered.
Thanks for all the advice on the 2-Bolt Campy post everyone.

The story of my frustrations: I bought a Gitane Grand Tourisme a few weeks ago. This was my first bike with the two bolt post. It was set up a as a "townie" with a big cushy seat. So I threw on an old Titanium Flite road seat I had lying around with very little space under the seat. It was almost impossible to get at the bolts, let alone tighten, I found the Campy seatpost tool on Criag's list and shouted "Eureka - the savior to my problems". Wrong!

I just received an Ideale 90 this week and went out to Home Depot this morning to get the suggested wrench. Worked like a charm. Frustration eliminated.

Now onto French vs. Italian vs. English freewheel challenges.

There is a lot of tricks to learn on vintage bikes. Yet again, I'm learning a lot from the posts here.

Mike
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Old 08-22-20, 01:00 PM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by seypat
This is why everything is so subjective. If a person likes feedback, they'll like the Suntours..............because they feel like driving an old farm tractor! Noisy, lots of resistance, rachety, etc. The L-600s though, like cruising in a old Caddy or Lincoln. No feedback at all. You have to trust that they work. You think it and it happens. Nothing more. That's what I like. I must be the only one.
There's someone else here that loves those things- and the only reason I kept them on the bike as long as I did was because of his opinion of them. I don't remember reading of your opinion- but it would have been another reason to keep trying- thinking *I* messed something up.

I dig the Simplex Retrofrictions- I like that smooth clutched action, and think the L600s are much more brutish in comparison to either the Retrofrictions or any Suntour "Power" ratcheting shifter. Perhaps the L600s were built to a certain standard for derailleurs of the time. I was using it with an M900 XTR- and I just find it has a tendency to go back to it's given starting point.
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Old 08-22-20, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Mar
Anything with Italian threading. Combining imperial and metric dimensions in a thread standard is is just wrong.
I don't mind Italian, but don't like French dimensions, despite the fact they are sometimes more rational. I have rarely had French bikes, so could never reach into my meager parts bin and grab a stem, seatpost or derailleur (I'm talkin' 'bout you, Simplex!)

I love my Nitto Noodle bars, Grand Bois Maes Parallel bars and Campy two bolt seatposts. I've got a pair of Monoplaner brakes (and levers with the QR) but have yet to try them. They are hanging off the Serotta I'm building up, so we shall see...
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Old 08-22-20, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by hazetguy
Riser stems
Quill pedals and toe clips
Brooks saddles

Velo Orange anything

Bridgestone xo-1
Barcons.


wow, y'all really know how to stick it to a guy.





Oh and Blackburn bags
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Old 08-22-20, 02:42 PM
  #88  
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The Campagnolo 2-bolt is a great design IMO. When it came out saddles had more more space for adjusting.
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Old 08-22-20, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine
FYI. It used to be a fairly commonly held view that galvanized spokes were superior and stainless spokes were for dandies or something. Believe it or not!

There weren't stainless cables in the old days, but the nice thing about galvanized cables it that it was easy to solder the ends. Cleaner look than cable ends.
I raced and built all my own wheels in the '70s. The popular SS Robegel spokes were beautiful crap. I built one Robergel SS wheel. A spoke head popper. I built alll the rest of my wheels with 15-17 Robergel Sports, the cheap, ugly zinc spokes. Spoke weight roughly that of a DT Revolution wheel and they held up very well (except 3 spokes per set always broke. Replace those three and the spokes outlasted the rims.) I never heard those success stories with SS. Not until Wheelsmith, DT and others came into the picture with far better stainless.

Ben
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Old 08-22-20, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Narhay
Oh and Blackburn bags
...and white bar tape.
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Old 08-22-20, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney
I raced and built all my own wheels in the '70s. The popular SS Robegel spokes were beautiful crap. I built one Robergel SS wheel. A spoke head popper. I built alll the rest of my wheels with 15-17 Robergel Sports, the cheap, ugly zinc spokes. Spoke weight roughly that of a DT Revolution wheel and they held up very well (except 3 spokes per set always broke. Replace those three and the spokes outlasted the rims.) I never heard those success stories with SS. Not until Wheelsmith, DT and others came into the picture with far better stainless.

Ben
I built a tubular wheelset back in the 70s and used plain gauge non stainless spokes. Mostly because they were cheaper, probably, since I didnít have a lot of money.

I will say Iíve put a lot of miles on those wheels, never broke a spoke and they still spin great. Eventually replaced the Fiamme rims with Mavic via rim transfer. Donít really ride tubulars on the trails though so Iíve been riding clinchers in recent years.

Otto
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Old 08-22-20, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by P!N20
...and white bar tape.
...and black bar tape.
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Old 08-22-20, 07:44 PM
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Don't think this has been mentioned

I HATE all those "components" people attach to their handlebars that aren't brake levers.
You know - the bells and whistles and cameras and Garmins and mobile phones and flashy lights and gaudy mirrors.
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Old 08-22-20, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Wildwood
Don't think this has been mentioned

I HATE all those "components" people attach to their handlebars that aren't brake levers.
You know - the bells and whistles and cameras and Garmins and mobile phones and flashy lights and gaudy mirrors.
You really arenít much fun.

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Old 08-22-20, 08:21 PM
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The Component Everyone Loves Except Me

I just realized what that component is. (In terms of this thread - I've known it for decades.)

Shimano brifters. Any model, any year, any number of cogs and chainrings. They will never be on a ride of mine, Not in this lifetime.

Why? Very simple. I realized many years ago riding in the drops that putting my index or middle finger firmly on the brake lever steadied the handlebars and made reaching for shifters and water bottles on poor roads riding low trail, quick steering racing machines a breeze. But doing that and changing gears or chainrings without thinking? Could be really bad!

When I ordered my ti custom, I had it built for DT shifters (though the builder put on threaded stops at the head tube in case I change my mind). I went out and bought 9-speed Campy wheels and cassettes just so if I ever went brifter it would be brifters that couldn't sucker me into a completely preventable crash.

Ben
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Old 08-22-20, 09:54 PM
  #96  
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Originally Posted by nlerner
You really aren’t much fun.

If it could play an 8-track of Alice's Restaurant on continuous loop, [MENTION=22396]Wildwood[/MENTION] would be all over it.
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Old 08-22-20, 10:22 PM
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Gonna add another one, as an owner of two pairs of them, who built both of them ("It's not you, baby, it's me...."): H+Son TB14s.

Am I keeping the dark grey anodized ones currently laced to Superbe Pro hubs, fitted with Veloflex Master 23mm tires? YES. They are gorgeous and built well (TB14s do build very well).

The trouble? Really harsh road vibration and impact transfer/feel. 505g a rim--23mm external width (good), sturdy construction (good), confident cornering (good), but characteristics are characteristics, and it takes a 35mm (or larger) tire to quell the harshness and give a more "normal" feel (a la Mavic MA2 or Open Pro, just to name two obvious examples). I had super light Vuelta Corsa Lite wheels that also exhibited this harshness, though not to the degree--likely due to the rims simply weighing less (less mass to calm). The older Vittoria Open Corsa tires also helped. They help everything.

If they don't bother you, or you aren't too worried about road feel for one or numerous reasons (like, you're running huge tires and don't ride crummy roads), please go ahead--there is truly much to like. I just have to (reluctantly) admit I don't like their ride quality give my sensitivities and riding style. Anybody have a spare, polished, 32-hole MA2?
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Old 08-22-20, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa
If it could play an 8-track of Alice's Restaurant on continuous loop, [MENTION=22396]Wildwood[/MENTION] would be all over it.

You just walk right in, it's around the back
just 1/2 a mile from the RR track.
you can get anything you want
at Alice's restaurant
(excepting Alice)

And now In 3 part harmony...


Son, have ya ever been convicted of a crime?

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Last edited by Wildwood; 08-22-20 at 10:45 PM.
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Old 08-22-20, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by RiddleOfSteel
Anybody have a spare, polished, 32-hole MA2?
https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/b...179879305.html
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Old 08-22-20, 11:45 PM
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Yeah, that's me.
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