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Campagnolo Super Record pulley jockey wheel replacement and compatibility?

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Campagnolo Super Record pulley jockey wheel replacement and compatibility?

Old 09-10-20, 08:17 AM
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ludowizze
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Campagnolo Super Record pulley jockey wheel replacement and compatibility?

Hi all, and thanks in advance for any help here.

So, I have a Campy Super record RD (patent 79), and I need to replace the jockey wheels. Now, I don't want to spend 30 quid on Ebay buying a new set of Campy pulleys, so I was wondering if anyone has some cheaper replacement to suggest that would just work as it should? I read someone on this forum suggesting Shimano ty05 for the Nuovo Record RD, but not sure the wheels are the same.

Cheers

Ludo
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Old 09-10-20, 08:27 AM
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I have read, but have yet to confirm, that Suntour pulleys will work.

Last edited by Murray Missile; 09-11-20 at 04:33 AM.
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Old 09-10-20, 09:01 AM
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Shimano should work, I bet the wheels are the same as for NR
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Old 09-10-20, 09:58 AM
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I have used the Shimano pulleys with great success on multiple NR/SR setups. I cannot recall the part number, but they are totally compatible.
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Old 09-10-20, 10:44 AM
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Thanks for the replies, appreciated! So any Shimano vintage pulley would work? I just need to buy one with 10 teeth?
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Old 09-10-20, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by ludowizze View Post
Thanks for the replies, appreciated! So any Shimano vintage pulley would work? I just need to buy one with 10 teeth?
Yep, make sure it's a 10 toother. Shimano or Suntour will do the trick.
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Old 09-10-20, 11:34 AM
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Another option would be Grand Cru Sealed Bearing Jockey Wheels from Velo Orange.

https://velo-orange.com/products/gra...heels-10-tooth
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Old 09-10-20, 11:37 AM
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Buy a NR derailleur and snag its wheels. For the NR derailleur now missing wheels, get these:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Pair-Shim...IAAOSwnnlbdr9~
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Old 09-10-20, 05:50 PM
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I thought SunTour (and Simplex) had a larger diameter bolt than Shimano and Campagnolo? I'd opt for the cheapo Shimano pulleys (under $10 on Amazon and likely other places).
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Old 09-10-20, 09:00 PM
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I've used the cheap Shimano pulleys successfully. The problem with buying an old NR derailleur and using the pulleys is that it is common for them to crack along a radius with age and shortly thereafter fail catastrophically. I've seen this happen a number of times.
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Old 09-10-20, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by davester View Post
I've used the cheap Shimano pulleys successfully. The problem with buying an old NR derailleur and using the pulleys is that it is common for them to crack along a radius with age and shortly thereafter fail catastrophically. I've seen this happen a number of times.
Never seen that. I've had dozens of NR derailleurs, many with cracked wheels. Never had one fail. But I've had so many, that I always snagged the uncracked wheels for keepers. I'm not worried about cracked wheels in either of my current two NR derailleurs. Though I would worry if I had Shimano pulleys in my SR one.
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Old 09-11-20, 04:57 AM
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NOS Bullseye
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Old 09-27-20, 04:23 AM
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So, I finally had the time to replace the jockey wheels and I can confirm that the Shimano TY05 work perfectly on the Campy SR rear mech. Thanks for all the suggestions!
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Old 09-27-20, 06:15 AM
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So..... just a question along this line. I'm about to refurbish an old Victory RD and the pulleys are a mess. What are everyone's thought on using Shimano pulleys for an indexing setup where the one has some side to side play? I ask this because this Victory setup in friction shifted. I have an old Orbea running a newer Ultegra 9 speed RD with the old 5 speed DT shifter and even running this over a 10 speed cassette it's the best shifting friction setup I have. Loved to emulate that with the bike the Victory RD is on.
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Old 09-27-20, 07:05 PM
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I have replace a lot of pulleys and the one thing to remember is the Campy bolts are 5mm and all of the newer Shimano are 6mm. I buy the sealed units from chasertech and ask for special reducer to 5mm. Be sure to specify ten tooth wheels when ordering, but they work quite nicely. Smiles, MH
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Old 09-27-20, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by jamesdak View Post
I'm about to refurbish an old Victory RD and the pulleys are a mess. What are everyone's thought...
Does anyone market white or grey wheels? Victory just doesn't look right with black wheels.
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Old 09-28-20, 12:41 AM
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Hot tip for using SIS floating pulleys in a friction-shift derailleur:

Swap 'em. Put the floating pulley on the bottom.

The floating upper pulley can cause ghost shifts, because the derailleur can be far enough off the gear to jump up under load, but because of the floating pulley, it doesn't make any noise and you can't tell.

--Shannon
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Old 09-28-20, 12:56 AM
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Wrong question! Can anyone tell me a pulley that won't work with a NR mech? Surely that'll be a shorter list.

If the hole is 6 mm, the Campy 5 mm bolt will fit though that with room to spare. If the pulleys are newer/thinner, for more gears in back and thinner chain, just use a thin washer on either side of the pulley to build it up to the right width. If the pulley is larger (more teeth), it'll look a bit odd but probably work just fine, maybe better. If the pulley is for Dura-Ace 10 mm chain and the teeth are too close to each other (10 mm pitch instead of 1/2"), grind the teeth off on a belt sander – you don't need 'em. OK I'm kidding about the last one, don't do that. But really, if you don't need them to be original or period-correct-looking, then almost anything will work.

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Old 09-28-20, 10:12 AM
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Just a heads-up, you can get these in boxes of 10. I recently got these, then found 'em for a couple bucks cheaper somewhere else. Still, $2 or so per pair is pretty economical, as long as 10pr isn't a 10yr supply:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Shimano-7-S...s/112587713652

Originally Posted by SurferRosa View Post
Buy a NR derailleur and snag its wheels. For the NR derailleur now missing wheels, get these:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Pair-Shim...IAAOSwnnlbdr9~
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Old 09-28-20, 10:24 AM
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This _shouldn't_ work very well, because the Campy NR/SR/etc (= _not_ early Rally) design leaves a lot of space between the upper/guide pulley and the cogs. You went/need a rigid pulley up top to help guide the chain to adjacent cogs, especially with vintage freewheels that don't have fancy tooth profiles for improved shifting.

As noted above, you could swap positions, with the floating pulley below as the tension pulley, and the rigid up up top as the guide pulley. That should work OK, no real harm, or benefit that I can think of, having a floating tension pulley. But it wouldn't make sense if you were buying a new pulley set, no need to pay extra for a floating pulley you don't really need.

The reason the floating guide pulley works so well with your Ultegra 9spd rder/5spd freewheel setup is the imho superior geometry of the Ultegra, which keeps that guide pulley closer to the cog teeth, regardless of cog size. If you used a rigid guide pulley instead, you might get _slightly_ faster shifting, because your 5spd teeth aren't shaped/profiled (I'm assuming), but any der/cog misalignment would be noisier.

The floating pulley was designed for indexed shifting use, with the teeth very heavily shaped/profiled to move the chain, rather than relying on the guide pulley for precise positioning. The float keeps everything quiet if there's some minor misaligment. That becomes more important when you're shifting 7-8-9-10-11spd clusters.

Originally Posted by jamesdak View Post
So..... just a question along this line. I'm about to refurbish an old Victory RD and the pulleys are a mess. What are everyone's thought on using Shimano pulleys for an indexing setup where the one has some side to side play? I ask this because this Victory setup in friction shifted. I have an old Orbea running a newer Ultegra 9 speed RD with the old 5 speed DT shifter and even running this over a 10 speed cassette it's the best shifting friction setup I have. Loved to emulate that with the bike the Victory RD is on.
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Old 09-28-20, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by pcb View Post
This _shouldn't_ work very well, because the Campy NR/SR/etc (= _not_ early Rally) design leaves a lot of space between the upper/guide pulley and the cogs. You went/need a rigid pulley up top to help guide the chain to adjacent cogs, especially with vintage freewheels that don't have fancy tooth profiles for improved shifting.

As noted above, you could swap positions, with the floating pulley below as the tension pulley, and the rigid up up top as the guide pulley. That should work OK, no real harm, or benefit that I can think of, having a floating tension pulley. But it wouldn't make sense if you were buying a new pulley set, no need to pay extra for a floating pulley you don't really need.

The reason the floating guide pulley works so well with your Ultegra 9spd rder/5spd freewheel setup is the imho superior geometry of the Ultegra, which keeps that guide pulley closer to the cog teeth, regardless of cog size. If you used a rigid guide pulley instead, you might get _slightly_ faster shifting, because your 5spd teeth aren't shaped/profiled (I'm assuming), but any der/cog misalignment would be noisier.

The floating pulley was designed for indexed shifting use, with the teeth very heavily shaped/profiled to move the chain, rather than relying on the guide pulley for precise positioning. The float keeps everything quiet if there's some minor misaligment. That becomes more important when you're shifting 7-8-9-10-11spd clusters.
Makes sense except you missed on piece on the setup on the Orbea I was talking about with that Ultegra 9 Speed RD. I'm using it with a modern 10 speed cassette not a 5 speed.

Sounds like I need to play with the Victory setup until I find the sweetspot. Right now it's running over an older 7 speed cassette. Think I'll try and modern 8 speed with shaped teeth on it after I sort out a good service on the RD. I've got various pulley's I can try on it as well as a set of the Velo Orange's coming in. Actually hope they work well with it since they look like they'll match the color of the bike, LOL!
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Old 09-28-20, 12:19 PM
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Oh, heck's bells! Yeah, your 5spd dt shifters are doing minimal work, with the teeth on that 10spd cassette grabbing/dumping the chain with abandon. The shifter gets the rder to put the chain in the right neighborhood, and the teeth do most of the work.

Originally Posted by jamesdak View Post
Makes sense except you missed on piece on the setup on the Orbea I was talking about with that Ultegra 9 Speed RD. I'm using it with a modern 10 speed cassette not a 5 speed.

Sounds like I need to play with the Victory setup until I find the sweetspot. Right now it's running over an older 7 speed cassette. Think I'll try and modern 8 speed with shaped teeth on it after I sort out a good service on the RD. I've got various pulley's I can try on it as well as a set of the Velo Orange's coming in. Actually hope they work well with it since they look like they'll match the color of the bike, LOL!
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Old 09-28-20, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Mad Honk View Post
I have replace a lot of pulleys and the one thing to remember is the Campy bolts are 5mm and all of the newer Shimano are 6mm. I buy the sealed units from chasertech and ask for special reducer to 5mm. Be sure to specify ten tooth wheels when ordering, but they work quite nicely. Smiles, MH
Many of the "shimano" aftermarket pullies have a 6mm hole with the 5mm reducer, but all of Shimano's pulleys from the past 30 years use 5mm bolts for the pulleys.

I tend to save all the durable pulleys from damaged Suntour derailers for use on Simplex or Huret derailers which all have 6mm bolts.

Shimano did apparently make at least one derailer with 6mm bolts back in the 70's or so, at least I do have such a pair of shimano pulleys here (with 6mm bushings in them that couldn't have come from Suntour pulleys). These are old-looking parts so guessing lower-end 1970's.

PCB is exactly right about rigid pulleys shifting best on friction setups using pre-Hyperglide era freewheels. Friction shifting is noticeably easier and more precise with the rigid pulleys (versus floating pulleys) I've found, even when using Uniglide freewheel with modern chain.
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Old 09-28-20, 06:52 PM
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I stand corrected. I do however restore a lot of Campy stuff and they all use the smaller bolts. The old wheels from Bull's Eye which were the only sealed replacements were all 6 mm in ID for the bolts. Requiring a shim and a bunch of time trying to center then in the cages. The nice thing about the Chasertech sealed units is the spacers which center the pulleys for you. I prefer to use the sealed units and the Chasertech is a nice option. Just my thoughts, MH
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Old 09-28-20, 09:14 PM
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Those Bullseye bolt washers drove me nuts whenever I tried to install the pulleys with the tiny washers onto an assembled derailer on a bike.

It was so much easier to break the chain and take the derailer cage apart first, then place the bolts, the washers, the pulleys, the rest of the washers, the cage plate and finally tighten the bolts!

Those flanged half-bushings make the job about 30 times easier.
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