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Fairly certain LBS damaged my frame, am I crazy?

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Fairly certain LBS damaged my frame, am I crazy?

Old 09-29-20, 07:18 AM
  #126  
rustystrings61 
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I like it that ultimately there is a solution that is as gracious and graceful for all involved as can be reached after this problem. I am also eager to see the repair story as it unfolds. I remember looking at the Super Tourer in a then-new catalog from whichever bike shop in Charlottesville, VA, sold Raleighs c.1974 and not getting it then. Now, I would be intrigued to play around with one and compare it to the Competition Mk. II.
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Old 09-29-20, 07:48 AM
  #127  
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Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post
If they didn't point it out when you dropped it off, didn't call you when they started the work, and didn't point it out when you picked it up until you pointed it out... Well then they did the damage and were trying to hide it.

​​​​​​Or it means that they have no idea how to inspect a bike. Both are very very bad things.
^^^^^^^^
This

It is just a damming on the quality of the "mechanic" that he saw a bent tube and (1) worked on the bike as if it wasn't there and (2) didn't say anything to you or the shop owner / manager.

There are many people looking for jobs these days, which is high motivation for someone with a job to not lose it by all means necessary (including lying).
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Old 09-29-20, 11:32 AM
  #128  
conspiratemus1
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Originally Posted by Phil_gretz View Post
. . .

Worst case, even if Solomon himself were to be the judge, you'd receive 50%,. . .
This is grossly unfair to King Solomon and shows popular misunderstanding of the story. The “wisdom of Solomon”, lay in his ploy to propose slicing the disputed baby in half, knowing that the true mother would offer to let the other woman have the infant, rather than see it killed. Which is what happened. The imposter (whose own child had died) was OK with the division plan, to spite the woman whose child had lived. Solomon of course awarded the child, unsliced and intact, to its rightful mother, thus revealed.

Why don’t more people know this?

Last edited by conspiratemus1; 09-29-20 at 11:48 AM. Reason: My tablet is ghost-editing.
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Old 09-29-20, 11:46 AM
  #129  
Phil_gretz
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Originally Posted by conspiratemus1 View Post
This is grossly unfair to King Solomon and shows popular misunderstanding of the story...
You know, you didn't need to explain that. Myself, I read the Bible through fully each year, and have done so for at least 15 years now. I felt that the "split the difference" aspect of the story (commonly albeit dimly known) lent itself to how small claims typically work.

I have sued in small claims court two times, once in Virginia and the other in California. In both cases, I had property damaged. First by a piano tuner who inappropriately tuned a turn of the 20th century to A440 destroying many strings, and Second by a private individual who carelessly opened his truck door into my parked car. In each case, my evidence was conclusive and complete, yet the judge ruled only 50% award. Hence my loose use of the Solomon reference.

Last edited by Phil_gretz; 09-29-20 at 12:36 PM.
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Old 09-29-20, 11:57 AM
  #130  
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Originally Posted by Phil_gretz View Post
Small claims court. As evidence, bring in your photograph and the frame itself. Bring an exact replica of the clamp head used in their shop. Bring three expert estimates on the value. Sue for fair market value to replace the entire bicycle. You will win.

Worst case, even if Solomon himself were to be the judge, you'd receive 50%, which will cover a replacement frame. These can still be found in the $150 range if you are patient.
Id have asked for Ruth.
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Old 10-01-20, 09:05 PM
  #131  
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Originally Posted by sheddle View Post
Bought an old Raleigh Friday (531 full butted) , took it to the shop Saturday for 27 clinchers and had them grease the seatpost while I was there to prevent it from ever getting seized. When I got the bike back, I noticed this.

My guess: Because both intended maintenance items were on the very low elementary scale, the work was done by their least experienced mechanic, and they grabbed the seat tube in the repair clamp instead of by the seat post like they are supposed to, so they could move the seat post to grease it.

A friend of mine had their car recalled, engine to be replaced. Since this is not something the dealer makes profit on, they tasked this to their oil-change flunky. Didn't even test drive the car after, just rolled it out of the garage. My friend starts up the car, huge jerking, the clutch would not disengage. The so-called mechanic installed the flywheel BACKWARDS. On a tapered shaft.

Protect yourself legally, don't make a certain claim you cannot prove. Just let the bike shop know that you're going to publish the photos, and say who the bike shop is, and let people draw their own conclusions. Give them a deadline.

I do 100% of my own maintenance, both for cost and exactly stuff like this. Mostly because I take the time to do a proper wheel truing. First thing I do when I get a "new" bike (always used), is not only true the wheels, but equalize the spoke tensions unless the rim is bent such that things need to be uneven to keep in true.

But I live in Seattle, and I'd like to know who this bike shop is, just for reference.

Last edited by Duragrouch; 10-02-20 at 01:39 PM. Reason: flywheel installed backwards, not clutch
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Old 10-01-20, 09:58 PM
  #132  
repechage
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I dont like liars.

lawyer up on principle
there a lawyer in town that emphasizes representing bike riders? Let them do the confrontation. A demand letter on their stationary could well do it.
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Old 10-01-20, 10:54 PM
  #133  
jackbombay
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Originally Posted by repechage View Post
I dont like liars.

lawyer up on principle
there a lawyer in town that emphasizes representing bike riders? Let them do the confrontation. A demand letter on their stationary could well do it.
It is already settled though, the bike shop will cover the cost of the repairs.
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Old 10-02-20, 01:04 AM
  #134  
repechage
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Originally Posted by jackbombay View Post
It is already settled though, the bike shop will cover the cost of the repairs.
thanks, I missed that.
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Old 10-02-20, 11:34 AM
  #135  
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Originally Posted by Duragrouch View Post
I'd like to know who this bike shop is.
​​​​​​
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Old 10-02-20, 11:45 AM
  #136  
Roger M 
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa View Post
​​​​​​
Spoiler
 
Wow. I thought they had a good reputation. I've never had any work done there, but have purchased a bunch of things there(new and used). They've been around for a long time, and treated me pretty fair.

Disappointed to hear this.
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Old 10-02-20, 11:49 AM
  #137  
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Originally Posted by Roger M View Post
Disappointed to hear this.
Yes. But surely, an anomaly. Doesn't change anything for me.
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Old 10-02-20, 12:31 PM
  #138  
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa View Post
Yes. But surely, an anomaly. Doesn't change anything for me.
Yes, agreed. I still respect the shop, things happen. I wish they would have owned up initially, but I could see how this could all happen. I suspect/hope whatever mechanic did this is getting some grief for it. I generally go there for parts and to verify technical things I am fuzzy on and I'll continue doing that. This does reinforce that you are taking a risk whenever you ask someone else to maintain your bike, especially if you don't know the mechanic personally.

@sheddle I am also available for socially distant wrench work if ever needed.
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Old 10-02-20, 02:05 PM
  #139  
Duragrouch
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Originally Posted by sheddle View Post
this is somewhat off topic, but to be clear, the main issue is that I am in a shared apartment, and don't have any practical space to do anything other than simple fixes, especially things involving grease/oils which might damage carpeting, etc.
I hope this is helpful.

I also live in Seattle in a community living environment and face the same issues. My solution: A "skinny" table, 18" deep front-to-back, 60" wide, 29" height to surface, fits easily in my tiny room, milk crates with my dry food storage goes underneath. Most of the time, can serve as a table for other things, such as a desk, or to store the bike on it. For bike repairs, my bike goes up on it, either inverted (with blocks under the grips due to the clip on aero bars) or right side up. Table catches all dirt and oil. Space beside and under bike for tools when working.

Bigger challenge is cleaning parts like chain, cogs, etc. I have scrubbed them with detergent in common laundry sink but I would like to get a parts washer that uses water-based citrus cleaner, that would make things a whole lot easier.

EDIT: I also have a heavyweight tarp that I spread out in front of the table, lest any dirt and such spill over. It's an easy task to fold up the tarp and shake it off outside after the repair.

Last edited by Duragrouch; 10-02-20 at 02:16 PM.
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Old 10-03-20, 07:41 PM
  #140  
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I had the same problem

Originally Posted by sheddle View Post
Bought an old Raleigh Friday (531 full butted) , took it to the shop Saturday for 27 clinchers and had them grease the seatpost while I was there to prevent it from ever getting seized. When I got the bike back, I noticed this.

​​​​​​

These crimps are both symmetrical, with a ridge running in the middle of two identical dents. I believe they're almost certainly caused by a repair stand clamping the butted seat tube too hard. I don't own a repair stand in my apartment and did nothing with the bike that would have involved any kind of force, other than a shakedown ride of a mile or so. The only work I did was move the seat down about a centimeter.

The shop is adamant that the frame was already damaged when the bike was brought in. I had photographic proof that the bike was not damaged as late as last night, but they told me that the bike could have been damaged between Friday night and Saturday morning (it was leaning against a wall in my living room).

Is there anything I can do here? And am I jumping to conclusions about this being the most likely cause of the crimping marks? I don't have like, a video of them actually putting the bike in the stand by the seat tube, so it's not like I can take this to court or anything, but would asking for a refund of labor costs and possibly some of the cost of frame repair be reasonable?

I'm mainly confused because this is a shop with a sterling reputation in Seattle, deals with used bikes a lot, and would usually know better than to clamp a butted steel frame by the seat tube.

I had an identical problem years ago with a butted steel frame.
My damage looked just like the damage in your photo. No paint damage.
I was on great terms with the owner of the shop who damaged my seat tube.
I enjoyed going to his shop, had been there about 4 or 5 times previous.
We usually chatted and had some rapport. We were about the same age with similar backgrounds.
It was the shop owner himself who did the damage.
I had him do something to the bottom bracket or crank, it was so long ago I don't remember what.
I was standing right there when he did the work. He unclamped my bike from the stand, handed it to me
and I saw the damage right then and there.
He refused to acknowledge that he dented the tube, even though it was extermely obvious.
He said the damage must have already been there.
I was furious. He just could not bring himself to admit, even to himself apparently, that he did it.
He offered to pound something into the seat tube to fix it, but I was so pissed I would not let him touch
the bike again.
I never did fix the bike I had such a bad taste from the incident (and was maybe a little tired of the bike).
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