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Araya 27x 1 1/4 Rim Questions

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Araya 27x 1 1/4 Rim Questions

Old 09-25-20, 03:05 PM
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Araya 27x 1 1/4 Rim Questions

Anyone out there have any info or experience about the possible age and quality of these rims? Thank you for your wisdom and expertise.
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Old 09-25-20, 03:10 PM
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Araya was standard equipment on Road and Mountain bikes in the 70s and 80s I have always found them sturdy and dependable.
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Old 09-25-20, 03:16 PM
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I like them.

A lot.
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Old 09-25-20, 03:50 PM
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Thank you! That's exactly what I hoped to hear.
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Old 09-25-20, 04:26 PM
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.
....I can't tell from looking at your photos, but there were some generational differences over the years with ARAYA 27" rims.


The condensed version of this history is that the earliest examples had little or no bead hook on the rims...so it's nearly impossible to fully inflate a more modern high pressure 27" tyre on one and not have it blow off the rim. Later on they got more of a bead hook, so they become less problematic as you progress in time. Once again, I can't see yours well enough to determine if there is or is not an adequate bead hook. If you have them in person, reach down in there and run your fingernail up from the bead seat to see if there's a hook or overhang. Some of these early bead hook adaptations are not really all that secure either.

Otherwise, they are serviceable rims, if a bit on the heavy side.
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Old 09-25-20, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Medium Size Dog View Post
Anyone out there have any info or experience about the possible age and quality of these rims? Thank you for your wisdom and expertise.
As I remember they made a number of rims with this basic profile, varying in width, The 27s I have only seen in 1 1/4" width.

And as it happens just built this morning I used the first of a pair of these rims (700c version) that are going on to Gian Robert hubs, the pair for a current Torpado project. It was a simple build, rim trued without any difficulty. The second rim I took off another hub, and after it was free there was a BIG saddle-shape, about 3 inches, but smooth, no kinks. I straightened it with a pair of 4x4s about 2 feet long and a 2x4 about 3 feet long. You place the 4x4s to act as supports for the low points of the rim, and you do press-ups with the 2x4 across the high points. Now it sits up nice and tight to the one I just built, and I *know* that's true.
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Old 09-25-20, 04:35 PM
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Riding a set of araya 27 inch rims on my 70s Sekine SHS 271. These were original equipment and still going strong. No bead so you want to run a wired on clincher and don't pump the tire past 75 PSI or so.
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Old 09-25-20, 05:32 PM
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Once again I thank you all for chiming in so quickly with helpful info. 3alarmer, I think this photo shows the bead of which you speak and while lightweight is nice i like ryansu's assessment and I'm a big fan of sturdy and dependable. And bikemig, it just seems to me that in general wire bead clinchers on old rims is the more sturdy and dependable option.
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Old 09-28-20, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
.
....I can't tell from looking at your photos, but there were some generational differences over the years with ARAYA 27" rims.


The condensed version of this history is that the earliest examples had little or no bead hook on the rims...so it's nearly impossible to fully inflate a more modern high pressure 27" tyre on one and not have it blow off the rim. Later on they got more of a bead hook, so they become less problematic as you progress in time. Once again, I can't see yours well enough to determine if there is or is not an adequate bead hook. If you have them in person, reach down in there and run your fingernail up from the bead seat to see if there's a hook or overhang. Some of these early bead hook adaptations are not really all that secure either.

Otherwise, they are serviceable rims, if a bit on the heavy side.
The ones intended for wired-on tires have a "W/O" stamped in the inner wall near the valve hole.

Also they have had rims designed fro different tires, 27 x 1 , 27 x 1 ⅛, and possibly one made for 27 x 1. Or I could be mixing up Araya with Ukai. Any case, I have a pair of the 1 in 36 holes with Schraider valves. I was going to try them on my slowly-growing 1981 Trek 720, but I just popped on a set of 700c with CR-18s and 30 mm Strada Bianca, and I think there may be a set of 35 mm clinchers in that bike's future. I've been looking for a set of Wolber or Super Champions, but I don't think it's in the cards. But for the 720, it even looks like carefully-laid fenders might be possible.
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Old 09-28-20, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Medium Size Dog View Post
Once again I thank you all for chiming in so quickly with helpful info. 3alarmer, I think this photo shows the bead of which you speak and while lightweight is nice i like ryansu's assessment and I'm a big fan of sturdy and dependable. And bikemig, it just seems to me that in general wire bead clinchers on old rims is the more sturdy and dependable option.

Older rims without hooks are intended for wire-bead (aka wired-on) tires. I have a set of non-hooked Dunlop Special Lightweight 27x 1 rims (laced ot the SA rear hub and the front hub that came with my 1952 Rudge. On them came a set of 27" John Bull gumwalls, for which I found an advert from about 1955, so I tend to believe my rims (one at least, with the Presta) is original to my bike. I bought a set of Specialized Roadsport the appropriate spec, and the fit and bead installation was easy and perfect - they were clearly both designed go be compatible. I've ridden it at 90 psi with no problems except that it is too harsh.

Anyway, I guess folding clinchers were not on the market before the 1980s or so. I don't know when they actually started, but my 1984 Trek came new with wire-bead tires.
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Old 09-29-20, 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by ryansu View Post
Araya was standard equipment on Road and Mountain bikes in the 70s and 80s I have always found them sturdy and dependable.
Yes. But they're beyond sturdy--almost indestructible, in my experience. I once t-boned a bulldog while descending a hill at about 20 mph (he ran up an embankment where I couldn't see him until he popped int the road right under my front wheel). Concusssion, separated shoulder, destroyed the frame and fork of my old Fuji. But the Araya rim was fine--not even knocked out of true.
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Old 09-29-20, 08:09 AM
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The subject rims appears appear to have a hooked edge on the inside of the sidewall to retain high pressure tyres, particularly those with non-rigid, fibre beads. Originally, Araya stamped "HP" for High Pressure but the HP designation was later dropped, as hooked edges became normal practice.

The basic, aluminum, U-section design for wired-on tyres, with a central stiffening hump, flat sidewalls and stiffening channels in corners was called the 16A. The central stiffening hump of a Westwood rim with the flat sidewalls of an Endrick rim resulted in a composite design, which was often referred to as Westrick.

The basic 16A section dates back to at least 1960. The 27" x 1-1/4" 16A(2) was added to the line sometime during 1967-1970. It was replaced by the 16A(3), which used a similar section but now incorporated a hooked edge on the inside of the sidewall and the corner channels were now hollow. The latter feature lightened the rim with only a small impact on stiffness. The 16A (3) was introduced sometime during 1976-1980 and survived through to 1990, possibly 1991.

Most midrange sport models started transitioning to box section 700C in the late 1970s. The 16A(3) would have have been seen on some midrange sport models in the late 1970s to early 1980s, though progressively fewer as the decade progressed. At the same time, it would have started to move progressively more into the entry level market. Another segment where it was popular in the early to mid-1980s was the grand touring bicycle.

In my experience, the 16A(3) was a good, reliable, but relatively heavy, wired-on rim for its era.
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Old 09-29-20, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Road Fan View Post
Older rims without hooks are intended for wire-bead (aka wired-on) tires. I have a set of non-hooked Dunlop Special Lightweight 27x 1 rims (laced ot the SA rear hub and the front hub that came with my 1952 Rudge. On them came a set of 27" John Bull gumwalls, for which I found an advert from about 1955, so I tend to believe my rims (one at least, with the Presta) is original to my bike. I bought a set of Specialized Roadsport the appropriate spec, and the fit and bead installation was easy and perfect - they were clearly both designed go be compatible. I've ridden it at 90 psi with no problems except that it is too harsh.

Anyway, I guess folding clinchers were not on the market before the 1980s or so. I don't know when they actually started, but my 1984 Trek came new with wire-bead tires.
Let me try to clarify things. Wired-on refers to any tyre with a hoop encased in each bead of the tyre, to retain the tyre on the rim. The hoops can be a rigid material, like steel, or a non-rigid material like the Kevlar fibre used in folding tyres. Both are wired-on tyres. The term also applies to any rim designed for this type of tyre.

Clinchers are a distinctly different style. Clinchers do not have an internal hoop to retain the tyre on the rim. Instead they rely on a a much thicker bead which fits under a very pronounced hooked edge of the rim (see attached scan). Sometimes they incorporate extended flaps to fully encase the tube, making a rim strip unnecessary. In Asian countries, clincher tyres are often referred to a "beaded edge" tyres, with the rims and/or tyres marked B/E.

Both wired-on and clincher tyres originated in the 1890s along with the single tube and double tube (aka tubular) tyre. For reasons I won't get into here, clinchers died out in the USA during the very early 20th century. American started referring to wired-on tyres as clinchers even before the introduction of the folding wired-on tyre, which was circa 1977 with the Elan TS. However, true clinchers persisted in several counties countries, particularly in Asia. A case in point, Araya offered it's 3A B/E rim at least as late as 1984. Tyre terminology was a big issue in the 1970s

While technically a misnomer, clincher has become synonymous with wired-on though common use. Any rim, either with or without hooks, that is designed to for a tyre with hoops enclosed in the beads, is a wired-on rim. The hooks on the inside edge of wired-on sidewalls were intended to retain high pressure wired-on tyres with non-rigid beads.

Last edited by T-Mar; 09-29-20 at 11:04 AM. Reason: forgot to include scan
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Old 09-29-20, 11:17 AM
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My curiosity about the smooth bead and hook bead stuff led me to a thread from '06 and '12 thread called Help!!! Tire Recommendations that I thought connected nicely so I commented on it to revive it. I rode thousands of miles on Weinmann 210 36 spoke wheels not knowing or caring that i was just a few pump strokes away from a blowout. I just liked the smoothing out the bumpy road ride with about 60-70 psi and still do. It's nice now knowing i can do this on the classic rims with less risk. So much so that i'm hoping to find another pair of those Weinmanns for future wheel building. And jonwvara, I should be receiving a new TRIPLIZER in the next couple of days!
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Old 09-29-20, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Medium Size Dog View Post
... And jonwvara, I should be receiving a new TRIPLIZER in the next couple of days!
Oh, hi, Charlie --I hadn't noticed that it was you. Yes, you ought to have it by the end of the week.
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Old 02-23-21, 04:18 PM
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Although various versions of this rim were made from the mid 1960's on 16a model, these rims are post 1980, pre 1980 rims in whichever variant have the 27 11/4 after the word Araya on the same line and post 1980 rims have the 27 11/4 as this set under the word araya and a slightly different font. Hope this helps.
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Old 02-23-21, 04:29 PM
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I am using an early 1970s Araya rim on the back of my UO-8, with a 27 x 1-1/4" tire. I don't dare go beyond 80 PSI, but anything in the 70-80 PSI range seems to work nicely. I run a 700Cx28 in front to minimize toe-to-tire overlap, but I like having the extra width in back when I fill the panniers.
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Old 02-23-21, 05:04 PM
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Have a pair on my 1985 Miyata 310 and no complaints. Look and ride well and haven't had any issues. As others have said they were extremely common and standard wheels and Japanese quality is generally top notch, especially when you get into the 80's.
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Old 02-25-21, 04:49 AM
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I bought a Nishiki International in 1977, it came with a set of those style Araya rims. The sides were straight walled, no 'hook'. I regularly ran 90 psi on that bike, maybe even more and never had an issue. I generally ran what ever 27x1 1/8" skinwall wire bead tires I could find cheap. A few that come to mind are Trimline, IRL, and Cycle Pro each rated at 90 psi or more. I never had a tire blow off the rim. I did the same on quite a few steel rim bikes back then as well.
I did see a few guys have their steel wheels blow out when the tire folded the sidewall over on the steel rim but usually those were on department store type rims.
I've seen that pattern from both Ukai and Araya as well, the two are almost identical other than the stampings.
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Old 02-25-21, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by jonwvara View Post
Yes. But they're beyond sturdy--almost indestructible, in my experience. I once t-boned a bulldog while descending a hill at about 20 mph (he ran up an embankment where I couldn't see him until he popped int the road right under my front wheel). Concusssion, separated shoulder, destroyed the frame and fork of my old Fuji. But the Araya rim was fine--not even knocked out of true.
Even knocked out of true they apparently recover well. In the early 80s I hit a gravel patch at probably over 20 mph and the front wheel went out of true enough I carried the bike home. Pulled the QR and took it to the sporting goods store where I bought the bike thinking I needed a new wheel. The guy had it straight before I could even browse the store long enough to drool over the bikes and accessories.

I now have a three bikes with them. One set is alloy, one is steel with the Satylite coating and one set steel and chrome. The Satylite rims look like alloy at first glance and the chrome ones are on an '83 Bridgestone I picked up last weekend. Neither of the steel sets show any signs of rust and the chrome ones have probably not been cleaned for years.
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