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Shimano two tone bicycle. What brand is it.

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Shimano two tone bicycle. What brand is it.

Old 10-05-20, 05:48 PM
  #26  
T-Mar
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December 1987 components would indicate a 1988 model, so it fits perfectly with the earlier assessment based on the S/N and components. Given that the posted advertisement is for the 1988 model, it also corroborates a blue overspray by a previous owner.

The derailleur pulleys are aftermarket items. A few new sealed cartridge bearing pulley brands were starting to appear around this time but Bullseye was the oldest and still the most popular. Consequently, it's the most likely candidate. FYI, only the top pulley is a 'jockey' pulley. The bottom one is called a 'tension' pulley.
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Old 10-05-20, 07:32 PM
  #27  
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The right side crank arm is stamped with MA (Jan '88) and the left crank is stamped LK (Nov '87) so bike seems to be fitting an '88 assembly.
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Old 10-05-20, 07:37 PM
  #28  
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T-Mar, in the advertisement you show of the bike (Supergo Access) makes the frame color look, to me, red. If you have it, the ad, is the color a more hot pink?
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Old 10-06-20, 01:10 PM
  #29  
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Sagi57 The pink on your bike looks like it might well have been red originally, and has faded to the varying shades of pink you see now.
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Old 10-07-20, 06:57 PM
  #30  
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Again more photos.





I agree this bike has been recolored. Was it red originally? By looking at it and posting photos, could it have been white to begin with? Granted the colors are a bit uneven but/and; the underside and topside have uneven color. Was it rotated, rightside up then upsidedown? The decals may have all been white to begin with, applied when the red/pink was sprayed on and then later the blue fade-in?
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Old 10-07-20, 08:23 PM
  #31  
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Whatever the color I'ma keep this for the ****s and giggles. I've already bought new tires, 26x1.4, I'll go new handlebars, Trekking/ Butterfly? And I'll see what I can come up/find with updating to a commuter.
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Old 10-08-20, 05:25 AM
  #32  
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The advertisement colour is definitely more red than pink. I suspect the colour variation between the upper and lower surfaces of the tubes is simple fading due to ultra violet exposure in natural sunlight. The blue doesn't seem to exhibit as much, if any fading, again suggesting it's an overspray by a previous owner. White was a common colour for primer coats and I suspect that it's the reason for any underlying white colour.
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Old 10-17-20, 11:05 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by 70sSanO
So, who made the Supergo frames?

John
My two cents, I got curious about this bike after getting one myself. They came in Red (Porsche red) and Blue, sizes 17, 19, 21”. They claimed all (11?) tubes were of Tange Prestige Chromoly. They didn’t advertised a weight that I know, but they claimed their 1987 Access Comp (Colombus SL) was 25.5lbs. An owner claimed his 1988 Team Issue was only 25.0 lbs, while mine weights about 27.5 lbs (although my weight may be off) as my 1988 Ritchey Super Comp (claim to be 25lbs) is heavier that this at 28.5.

This is an educated guess of who made them. First the company claimed they were made in extremely low numbers and serials of the 3, 1988 Team Issue bikes I’ve know of suggests that number is under 1,000 bikes. They were hand fille-brazed at the upper seat tube joint, the quality of the brazing is not Tom Ritchey awesome, but good nevertheless.

Serials

A8A00625, likely made by Araya. Code: Araya/1988/Jan/no. 00625. Perhaps they were hoping to make more. The upper seat stay ends were present in Araya “Muddy Fox” MTB of the period, also on others.

T8641 (here), likely made by Toyo (Toyo made the original Stumpjumper). Code: Toyo/1988/no. 641

And T8727 as above but no. 727, these numbers max out at 1000, therefore production number that at a maximum.

Apparently, they had a Racing Team, and one point the advertised was their full Shimano components. Is possible the OP’ bike was raced, but I don’t know the Team colors. The two-color fade was typical of many Team bikes of the period, and sometimes reflected colors offered. Shimano may have sponsored the particular race Team.

Nevertheless, a keeper. It’s a well made bike with fast (NORBA) geo for the period. With likely the best MTB gear of that year and the best steel IMHO.

Last edited by Santuri32; 10-20-20 at 06:43 PM.
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Old 10-17-20, 12:13 PM
  #34  
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Published bike weights over the years, especially in the 90’s, were always a little suspect. But a lightweight steel frame with a rigid fork, re-rolled road rims, and lightweight XC tires can get you to 25lbs.

My Trek 970 and Serotta T-Max are a shade over 27lbs, incl pedals and cages, with Bomber forks. I do have Mt Titan rims on the Serotta.

John

Edit: Can’t even spell the make of my bike... lol!

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Old 10-18-20, 08:24 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Santuri32
My two cents, I got curious about this bike after getting one myself. They came in Red (Porsche red) and Blue, sizes 17, 18, 21”. They claimed all (11?) tubes were of Tange Prestige Chromoly. They didn’t advertised a weight that I know, but they claimed their 1987 Access Comp (Colombus SL) was 25.5lbs. An owner claimed his 1988 Team Issue was only 25.0 lbs, while mine weights about 27.5 lbs (although my weight may be off) as my 1988 Ritchey Super Comp (claim to be 25lbs) is heavier that this at 28.5.

This is an educated guess of who made them. First the company claimed they were made in extremely low numbers and serials of the 3, 1988 Team Issue bikes I’ve know of suggests that number is under 1,000 bikes. They were hand fille-brazed at the upper seat tube joint, the quality of the brazing is not Tom Ritchey awesome, but good nevertheless.

Serials

A8A00625, likely made by Araya. Code: Araya/1988/Jan/no. 00625. Perhaps they were hoping to make more. The upper seat stay ends were present in Araya “Muddy Fox” MTB of the period, also on others.

T8641 (here), likely made by Toyo (Toyo made the original Stumpjumper). Code: Toyo/1988/no. 641

And T8727 as above but no. 727, these numbers max out at 1000, therefore production number that at a maximum....
The frames with the A-prefix serial numbers would not appear to be from Araya. During the 1980s, Araya's serial number prefix was 'ARY", not 'A'. We know this because it is the format that surfaces on their own eponymous brand. Also, we know that they didn't employ a different format for clients and frame styles, as the ARY-prefix format turns up on road bicycles that they manufactured for brands such as Focus, SR and Vista, and the ATBs they manufactured for Peugeot.

Regarding Toyo as a possible manufacturer, it does not appear to match either. At the time that Toyo was building ATBs for the likes of Fisher and Tom Ritchey, they used the Panasonic serial number format. This makes sense when you consider that prior founding Toyo in 1973, Masaaki Ishigaki built frames for M-a-t-s-u-s-h-i-t-a/Panasonic. Also, Toyo were building about 10,000 ATB frames annually during the late 1980s and used five numerals for the sequential frame number portion of the serial number. For low number frames, the serial number used place holding zeroes. The T-prefix serial numbers on the Supergo frames, don't have these characteristics.
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Old 10-18-20, 09:43 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by T-Mar
The frames with the A-prefix serial numbers would not appear to be from Araya. During the 1980s, Araya's serial number prefix was 'ARY", not 'A'. We know this because it is the format that surfaces on their own eponymous brand. Also, we know that they didn't employ a different format for clients and frame styles, as the ARY-prefix format turns up on road bicycles that they manufactured for brands such as Focus, SR and Vista, and the ATBs they manufactured for Peugeot.

Regarding Toyo as a possible manufacturer, it does not appear to match either. At the time that Toyo was building ATBs for the likes of Fisher and Tom Ritchey, they used the Panasonic serial number format. This makes sense when you consider that prior founding Toyo in 1973, Masaaki Ishigaki built frames for M-a-t-s-u-s-h-i-t-a/Panasonic. Also, Toyo were building about 10,000 ATB frames annually during the late 1980s and used five numerals for the sequential frame number portion of the serial number. For low number frames, the serial number used place holding zeroes. The T-prefix serial numbers on the Supergo frames, don't have these characteristics.
I appreciate your comments, ha! When I saw you replied I thought you were going to grill me for suggesting a continuation of the serial number order after a manufacturer change.

I’m pretty sure you have a pretty big serial number database, so what are your suggestions?

Here is where I am at.

I had a 1982 “read is some forum” made by Araya Univega Alpina Sport, perhaps the second or first Japanese manufactured production Mountain Bike made for the US market. The serial started with just an A. Almost simultaneously, Araya made their first Mountain bike, which is nearly a clone of the Alpina Sport. As you know, this was something that affected Schwinn, when Giant sold with or without license models under other brands with the similar frames (or the same, see Repco, I think in Australia, this is a major guess I don’t’ know if Schwinn was selling their bikes to Repco). So base only on that, which is little, I believe that a manufacturer not just could be asked to start your frames in 0001 but also to choose the first character you want. At the end they are providing a good to you as a client that includes other specs harder to achieve than a custom serial number.

The flattened stays at the seat tube, first appeared on 1983 Arayas “Muddy Fox” and continued for years. I read again on a Forum that some Rocky Mountain bikes were made by Araya. I suspect those with the flattened stay ends could be those frames made by Araya. There may be other frames sharing this as well. But this bike has them as well, either these are inspired on that feature of the Arayas or they were made by them, and until provided with better data, all I can do is have and share my best guess.

So, my crazy suspicion is that Supergo paid Araya to make some frames, that for some economic reason, they changed to Toyo and requested serial to start where those ended, but with only three serials and the other being that they advertised it as a “extremely rare”. This last bit makes me consider the serial number continuation craziness. So are there any more Access Team Issues out there?, we need more codes and more clues or anything else. I think it would be crazier to think Tom Ritchey or Tim Teesdale made these frames, or wouldn’t it?

T-Mar, could you please add anything about A-Pro, I also read on another Forum that Supergo were made by A-Pro, and I have seen later year bikes with a made in Taiwan decal. One point to think this was a Taiwan made bike, was the lower price of manufacturing provided by Taiwanese manufacturers. But also the lack of a decal, I think a made in Taiwan decal has more chances of disappearing from a frame that a made in USA or Japan one, what do you think?

Also do you know of fillet brazed frames made by either Araya, A-Pro, or Toyo around that time?

I appreciate your best opinion based on your data.

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Old 10-18-20, 11:24 AM
  #37  
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Here are some GT Avalanche from 1987 and 1988 in Tange Prestige with a Built by Toyo decal and two different serial formats, the 1988 matching the 1988 Supergo code.





Toyo was also making lugged frames (mentioned in ritchey.vintagebicycledatabase) "Tube sets went to Toyo, who only built lugged frames"
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Old 10-18-20, 12:48 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Santuri32
Here are some GT Avalanche from 1987 and 1988 in Tange Prestige with a Built by Toyo decal and two different serial formats, the 1988 matching the 1988 Supergo code. The medalist stamp on T8021 is E.S. which may indicate "S" 1987, but I have not quite figure that out yet. The decal reads "Handcrafted in Japan by Toyo"





Toyo was also making lugged frames (mentioned in ritchey.vintagebicycledatabase) "Tube sets went to Toyo, who only built lugged frames"
I apologize, serial on the 1987 begins with 07, while the 1988s are T8021 and T8198

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Old 10-18-20, 03:27 PM
  #39  
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I found another likely possibility for the A8A00625 Supergo frame.
The first, Ritchey Japanese made bikes were made by Toyo. In his second visit to Toyo, Tom Ritchey visited with Jacob Heilbron, manager of Rocky Mountain Bicycles and Pippin Osbourne manager of West Point Cycles (info found on another forum). As the result of this trip three Ritchey models were imported for Canadian market, with one of these renamed as the Ascent for the US market. The serial codes of these bikes were AYMnnnnn, where the A is not explained (Aspen?)/Y=year/M=month/nnnnn=serial number.
Therefore is possible, all Supergo Team Issue frames were made by Toyo in Japan. With A8A00625 being a January 1988 built frame. Then the order has a better chance to indicate continuity of the numbers. With the serial format for Toyo made GT above following later in 1988, too bad there's not month indication. Some Rocky Mountain bikes have the "Araya" type flattened seat stay at the seat tube (maybe bought from Araya), and some also have the forward facing seat post, locking screw location.

Which one sounds more likely?
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Old 10-18-20, 04:07 PM
  #40  
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I can see how someone might attribute the stay cap style to Araya, given their affinity for for it. However, the general style pre-dates Araya's usage, being very popular on a number of Italian brands. Also, as noted, it is to be seen on several early Univega. These Univega have serial number formats consistent with Miyata, a known Univega contractor. The caps would appear to be a standard, off-the-shelf frame fitting and not anything proprietary to Araya.

The T-prefix S/N on the 2nd Avalnche is the first direct tie I can recall seeing to Toyo for this format. Thank-you for posting. The format on the 1st Avalanche is consistent with that seen on Ritchey and Fisher. Still, its curious as to why they made such a radical change to the serial number format during this period. I'd also think that the annual volume for the Avalanche and Team Access alone would be close to, if not in excess of one thousands units, and that we'll eventually see some T8xxxx serial numbers.

The ES within the diamond is not a date code but the trademark of Eisho Seisakusho, a Japanese lug and bottom bracket shell manufacturer.

​​​​​​​
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Old 10-18-20, 06:35 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by T-Mar
I can see how someone might attribute the stay cap style to Araya, given their affinity for for it. However, the general style pre-dates Araya's usage, being very popular on a number of Italian brands. Also, as noted, it is to be seen on several early Univega. These Univega have serial number formats consistent with Miyata, a known Univega contractor. The caps would appear to be a standard, off-the-shelf frame fitting and not anything proprietary to Araya.

The T-prefix S/N on the 2nd Avalnche is the first direct tie I can recall seeing to Toyo for this format. Thank-you for posting. The format on the 1st Avalanche is consistent with that seen on Ritchey and Fisher. Still, its curious as to why they made such a radical change to the serial number format during this period. I'd also think that the annual volume for the Avalanche and Team Access alone would be close to, if not in excess of one thousands units, and that we'll eventually see some T8xxxx serial numbers.

The ES within the diamond is not a date code but the trademark of Eisho Seisakusho, a Japanese lug and bottom bracket shell manufacturer.

​​​​​​​
Thanks for the info. on the medalist stamp. I thought the second character indicated a year, since I've recorded a 1980 Serrota BB with E.C. inside the same diamond, a 1984 and 1986 3-Rensho Specialized Allez with E.O., and a 1987-8 Marin Pine Mountain with E.S.as well the 1987 Supergo.
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Old 10-18-20, 06:41 PM
  #42  
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Here's the bike for benefit of the OP.
This is an 1988, based on specs and on the date codes of original components dating LK-MG (Nov. 1987-July 1988), slightly earlier codes might be on his original Shimano components



The bottom bracket guides are similar to those on the GT, perhaps in other bikes of that year with rear cantilevers.


and the Made in Japan decal

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Old 10-18-20, 06:56 PM
  #43  
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Here's another ad with more details. I tried my best to write the blurry text I grabbed from an online picture.



I had to guess about 7 words (underlined).

As usual Supergo does the unusual. By selling factory-direct to serious cyclists, we’re the only ones capable of producing higher quality designs for less money than our competitors. Our new, full-race Access Team Issue is the perfect example. Equipped with the same list of components, other MTB’s would price set at $1200. But factory direct from Supergo, the Access Team Issue is only $879.

And we’re not talking about a racey-looking bike. We’re talking about a serious team-issue racing machine. For example, our rear cantilever brake might not look as trick as a “U” brake to amateurs. But it’s essential for competition. Because it allows for quick release wheel changes, short stays free chain travel, and better stopping action. Any competitor will tell you these features are musts. That’s why the racing version Deore XT is spec’d with cantilevers. The list of special racing features goes on and on. Ultra-light, non-bending Prestige chromoly handlebars, Hite Rite, Italian Turbo leather seat. And the ultimate rubber – Specialized Ground Control tires mounted on genuine hard-anodized [not just gray colored] Araya RM-20 rims. Even the toe clips show our carers for the expert’s needs. Specialized MTB clips with nylon belts straps. And since all Supergo models are equipped with complete Shimano system componentry, it’s only logical that our top model is full Deore XT. Even the seat lug QR and shark fin.

So far, anybody could deny that we beat 35% of the bikes on the market. But all it’s not #1, it’s not Supergo. So, we build the Access Team Issue with all eleven tubes of Tange Prestige. It’s the most expensive but lightest weight chromoly in the world. And we build the frame the right way, not the most economical way. Using fillet brazed seat lug cluster. It’s reversed to allow seamless operation with the Hite Rite. Investment cast head lugs. TIG welded BB shell and fork. And Shimano fork ends. And, if you haven’t started dialing our order line yet, this geometry ought to get you moving. Seat tube increments of 2”; top 22 1/4”; stays 16 ”; wheelbase 41 1/8”; rake 1 ”; angles 71-73. Or you could say, full race.

Magazine tech editors will soon be describing it as “unbelievable performance”, worth $1200” and “a dream machine”. Unfortunately, they’ll have to add, “extremely rare”. Because the Team Issue is strictly handmade, limited production. Frankly, we’re only producing it for expert racers and connoisseurs. So, if you want one, order soon. Of course, you’ll have to assemble the Team Issue. But it’s Japanese precision will make that easy. Besides, most Supergo riders are the kind who insist on assembling it themselves.

Have a laugh!

Last edited by Santuri32; 10-18-20 at 08:11 PM.
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Old 10-19-20, 01:10 AM
  #44  
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The EO within the diamond is the trademark of another Japanese frame fittings manufacturer, Otsuya Iron Works.
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Old 10-19-20, 10:26 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by T-Mar
The EO within the diamond is the trademark of another Japanese frame fittings manufacturer, Otsuya Iron Works.
Thank you for clarifying, perhaps the reported medalist E.C. is an incomplete E.O. This was reported from Serrota Rd bikes. Attached is the E.O. from Specialized Allez (these are embossed and in the BB's bottom) and have the word Medalist to their right. And the ones from a 1987 Marine Pine Mountain (these are impressed, and don't say medalist). This second type is on the 1987 Toyo built GT Avalanche above. In the attached Marin Pine Mountain BB picture, the serial number format also matches that in the GT as well as the medal cable guides. I believe that this is another Toyo built frame.
Thanks

The serial reads 7A700036, for America?/1987/January/no. 00036

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Old 10-19-20, 11:07 AM
  #46  
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Wow. Thanks Santuri32 and T-Mar. The advertisement definitely describes this bike. I can't find a factory stamped diamond on my BB but maybe the blue overspray might be covering it. The bike doesn't have the brazed on cable guides for the derailleur as yours does. Mine's a plastic bit screwed in that holds both cables on the underside of the BB. So my bike could be 641 out of only 1000 produced? And possibly raced by a Shimano sponsored bicycle team? What's next to discover?
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Old 10-19-20, 11:52 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Sagi57
Wow. Thanks Santuri32 and T-Mar. The advertisement definitely describes this bike. I can't find a factory stamped diamond on my BB but maybe the blue overspray might be covering it. The bike doesn't have the brazed on cable guides for the derailleur as yours does. Mine's a plastic bit screwed in that holds both cables on the underside of the BB. So my bike could be 641 out of only 1000 produced? And possibly raced by a Shimano sponsored bicycle team? What's next to discover?
Who raced it?

Could you please upload a picture of the bottom bracket to see the guide?
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Old 10-19-20, 12:10 PM
  #48  
Santuri32
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Originally Posted by Santuri32
Who raced it?

Could you please upload a picture of the bottom bracket to see the guide?
I may have made a mistake on calling the A7A serial bike a Team Issue. I know there was Access Sport that year that came with full XT gear but I know it only from posted pics without a serial. Google this topic (Lugged Steel bike, New Into) and decide for yourself, hopefully you can also find some pictures o the bike on that post. The 1987 bikes had rear U-brake and had a plastic cable router in the BB. Maybe that feature carried until yours, does it block your serial? I would really like to see a BB picture.
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Old 10-19-20, 01:01 PM
  #49  
T-Mar
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Originally Posted by Santuri32
I may have made a mistake on calling the A7A serial bike a Team Issue. I know there was Access Sport that year that came with full XT gear but I know it only from posted pics without a serial. Google this topic (Lugged Steel bike, New Into) and decide for yourself, hopefully you can also find some pictures o the bike on that post. The 1987 bikes had rear U-brake and had a plastic cable router in the BB. Maybe that feature carried until yours, does it block your serial? I would really like to see a BB picture.
You may be thinking of the 1988 Access Comp XT. It was basically an Access Comp with a $200 upgrade to Deore XT from Deore. The Access, Access Comp and Access XT were all built in Taiwan using Columbus tubing. They all used chain stay mounted U-brakes in 1988.
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Old 10-19-20, 01:47 PM
  #50  
Sagi57
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So pictures as asked for. I'm wrong on the frame #. T8461, somehow looking at it upside down got in the way of reading it.

Last edited by Sagi57; 10-19-20 at 01:52 PM.
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