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A 1973 Raleigh Grand Sports Project

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A 1973 Raleigh Grand Sports Project

Old 10-12-20, 06:08 PM
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A 1973 Raleigh Grand Sports Project

I was waiting for another bike to sell and have bike money for what I really wanted but I slipped up, looked on CL, and saw this advertised as a project. It was touch and go with the seller and I thought I missed out. Then, while trying to look on the bright side, he lets me finish his project. No wheels, no seat, no pedals, Suntour stem-shifting V-GT instead of Simplex, and a little crusty. It doesn't take much to make the 90 minute drive worth it. Like these handle bar plugs. They're are not Velox but according to my aesthetic this GS would be less without them.


Pretty Cool

Pretty Cool

Pretty Crusty

This looks bad.

Who does this?

Last edited by Classtime; 10-13-20 at 03:47 PM.
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Old 10-12-20, 06:26 PM
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Nice. I think I saw that listing. Looks like a vinegar bath is in order.
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Old 10-12-20, 06:36 PM
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The SR stem was 22.00 which kinda freaked me out. My last great white project was a PX-10 and I braced myself. The headset lock nut was something other than 32mm--maybe 30? And the adjustable cup also wasn't 32 but something like a 40? I read a bunch of GS posts and don't recall any mention of this. I twisted out the straight alloy seat post that has no markings and tried inserting my 27.2s which won't get started in the seat tube! What is this? I tried gently threading on some normal pedals on the Nervar cranks and they went in a couple turns then stopped. Finally,

7 balls in the BB cradles. but a full set of balls in the HS.

It is so nice to get an old bike that still has its dust covers.
I found a trouble free bit on this GS--the bottom bracket is normal and came out with no shenanigans. (Lucky for me this bike had no wheels or pedals because someone may have ridden this thing and ground up the BB. It is dry caked but maybe ok.)
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Old 10-12-20, 08:21 PM
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On both my ‘73 Gran Sport and my ‘73 Competition I had to open up the seat lug where the binder bolt attaches AND I needed to run a brake cylinder hone to smooth out the inside of the seat tube and clean out the corrosion. Once that was done both took the normal 27.2 posts. Both of my 531 Raleighs spent time with badly shimmed posts but bounced back nicely!
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Old 10-13-20, 09:53 AM
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In case no one has chimed in with this yet, the crown on your GS is some variant of the Vagner no. 12; the GS also came with the Vagner DP + losange fraise, which looks like the crown used for the Super Course. Lugs are Bocama Professional, which may have been one of the most widely-used lugs of the 70s.

That's probably the stock T.D. Cross headset, which is usually pretty close to bulletproof. I'm running those in both of my '73 Raleighs and have been pleased so far.

As far as your cranks and pedals go, look on the back of the cranks to see if they're marked either metric or English. 1973 was the absolute utter peak year of the bike boom and the whole industry was struggling to meet demand. Specifications changed without notice, indeed! It would not surprise me at all to learn that Raleigh wound up with a quantity of French-threaded Nervar cranks and chose to run them with French pedals rather than re-tap them. That is easily done, I understand, and I have owned several Stronglight cranksets that have been re-tapped to 9/16 x 20.

The SunTour VX is a wonderful upgrade for the bike. I wound up running its ancestor, the V-GT Luxe with a SunTour AR front mech and the fabulous SunTour Power ratchet downtube shifters on my GS, and so long as it remains a derailleur-geared bike I see no reason to change that.

I took a brief spin on mine this morning to try out a saddle I just revived and was struck again by just how smooth and stable and comfortable this bike is, even with junky mis-matched wheels, heavy stiff tires and the handlebars too narrow and too low. You're in for a treat when you're done!

Last edited by rustystrings61; 10-13-20 at 09:59 AM.
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Old 10-13-20, 04:10 PM
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Thanks Rusty. I miss-spelled the Derailleur. I have the V-GT with all the steel bits. Man that thing is heavy but I got it working smoothly in the hand. The cracked Simplex front will get replaced for now with something from the bin, later with something matching, and I hope to trade the stem shifters for DT. My 9/16 taps will need to go through the cranks whether or not they are French. There is B.S. engraved on the back so maybe they are buggered or the shop forced some french pedals on there?

It cleaned up OK.


Found that little washer in the solvent sludge. ???

5 Feet.

Nice Crown to look down on.
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Last edited by Classtime; 10-13-20 at 04:15 PM.
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Old 10-13-20, 05:30 PM
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Holy crap, that is night and day. I love where this is headed...

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Old 10-15-20, 09:15 AM
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Cleaned up real nice!
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Old 10-15-20, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Classtime
Thanks Rusty. I miss-spelled the Derailleur. I have the V-GT with all the steel bits. Man that thing is heavy but I got it working smoothly in the hand. The cracked Simplex front will get replaced for now with something from the bin, later with something matching, and I hope to trade the stem shifters for DT. My 9/16 taps will need to go through the cranks whether or not they are French. There is B.S. engraved on the back so maybe they are buggered or the shop forced some french pedals on there?

It cleaned up OK.


Found that little washer in the solvent sludge. ???

5 Feet.

Nice Crown to look down on.
Wow!! How did you get the rust off the frame without damaging the paint job??
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Old 10-15-20, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by tpadul
Wow!! How did you get the rust off the frame without damaging the paint job??
See this thread. My Oxalic Acid OA Bathtub
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Old 10-16-20, 01:45 AM
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I second that holy crap! Looks great - very nice work.
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Old 10-18-20, 06:07 PM
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Got it ride-around-the-blockable




I was eager to ride this Grand Sports a bit so I assembled it with parts on hand. It rides small for how tall it is. I picked up some Gloss White Rustoleum for touch ups which seems almost doubled in price since I painted my PX-10.
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Old 10-18-20, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Classtime
Got it ride-around-the-blockable




I was eager to ride this Grand Sports a bit so I assembled it with parts on hand. It rides small for how tall it is. I picked up some Gloss White Rustoleum for touch ups which seems almost doubled in price since I painted my PX-10.
Now that's a transformation! Great work.
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Old 10-18-20, 08:11 PM
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That is a truly lovely bike and it has come so far from where you started! Really fine work!
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Old 10-18-20, 10:10 PM
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Thanks for the complements. It is a very classy frameset and very difficult to mess it up. I couldn't wait for 27 inch tires, Koolstops for the original holders, proper FD, or shifters. I was pretty happy with the way it behaved today and look forward to getting all the transmission pieces working in harmony on some long hilly rides.
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Old 10-19-20, 03:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Classtime
See this thread. My Oxalic Acid OA Bathtub
I had what must have been the same machine to work on, not as rusty (but rusty) to start with, would up like this, if I had seen your OA post first I would have done that and saved a lot of time..










I changed the derailleurs and shifters, front mech and shifters are NOS, swapped the Nervar out because it's to become a triple on another bike.

The frame was part-painted, went with a slightly more cream-coloured white (Reynolds decal pic shows the old colour), masked the blue, and swore a bit while doing the gold bits. Please please please if anyone knows a touch-up that matches Lagoon Blue speak up.

Last edited by oneclick; 10-19-20 at 03:13 AM.
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Old 10-19-20, 11:49 AM
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As a soon-to-be novice Carlton owner (whenever my sister-in-law brings it down or my wife visits her and retrieves it), I am curious to know more about the Carlton-Raleigh connection in your vintage. I really like the way your Raleigh cleaned up -- great-looking machine. Yours does look a bit short in the top tube, which is why it "rides small," just as my Peugeot PKN-10, with its long top tube, rode so big I had to give it to my son.
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Old 10-19-20, 03:19 PM
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John E-

There is an overview of the Carlton/Raleigh relationship here: https://www.ebykr.com/carlton-cycles...for-greatness/
Facebook also has a Carlton Cycles of Worksop page here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1495959500629283

Those should give you a start.
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Old 10-20-20, 06:18 AM
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A 24.5-in early 70s 531 Raleigh will "ride small," while a 21.5-in early 70s 531 Raleigh will "ride large." As far as I know, they ALL came with 57 cm top tubes, no matter what the seat tube length was. One of those Raleigh quirks. I guess they assumed you'd adjust things with saddle position and shorter or longer stem extensions.
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Old 10-20-20, 06:24 AM
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I have a 59.5 cm frame that's too big for me, and was surprised to find it also had a 57 cm top tube. Before that, I assumed that most bikes had pretty much the same length top tube as seat tube, but that's not the case at all.

If it's true that all Raleighs came with 57 cm top tubes, that sure makes finding one the correct size easy, since I love a 57 cm top tube.


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Old 10-20-20, 01:30 PM
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My distillation of Carlton/Raleigh stories is that the nice bikes have a Carlton decal.

And perhaps I can ask here about the "trail" of my '73 GS. My crude measures of 35-40mm let me think this is a "low trail" bike. Anybody know if that is the case? Choice of wheels and tires alters trail some but in general, is this a low trail bike? I intend to put my new Nitto front rack and Acorn Med Bag on this bike and I understand that low trail is good for such things.
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Old 10-20-20, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Lemond1985
I have a 59.5 cm frame that's too big for me, and was surprised to find it also had a 57 cm top tube. Before that, I assumed that most bikes had pretty much the same length top tube as seat tube, but that's not the case at all.

If it's true that all Raleighs came with 57 cm top tubes, that sure makes finding one the correct size easy, since I love a 57 cm top tube.
What a beautiful bike! Is it a Competition or Gran(d) Sport(s)? I just love the simple black colour, so elegant.
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Old 10-20-20, 04:00 PM
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I measured and re-measured my ‘73 GS and my ‘73 Competition Mk II and got near identical dimensions. Both are 23.5-in to top with 22.5-in/57 cm top tubes, 73 degree parallel seat and head tubes, 85 mm of BB drop, around 44 cm chain stays with 105 cm wheelbase, 2.5-in fork rake and around 40 mm trail. That’s on the low end of trail, if not true low trail as I understand it. This matches up with my memory of the other two ‘73 Competitions and the ‘71 example I once owned. Both models get hot-rodded regularly into rando machines.
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Old 10-20-20, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by rustystrings61
I measured and re-measured my ‘73 GS and my ‘73 Competition Mk II and got near identical dimensions. Both are 23.5-in to top with 22.5-in/57 cm top tubes, 73 degree parallel seat and head tubes, 85 mm of BB drop, around 44 cm chain stays with 105 cm wheelbase, 2.5-in fork rake and around 40 mm trail. That’s on the low end of trail, if not true low trail as I understand it. This matches up with my memory of the other two ‘73 Competitions and the ‘71 example I once owned. Both models get hot-rodded regularly into rando machines.
Interesting, I've measured a 23" GS frame from around 1973 that has a 71-degree HT angle and 73-degree ST angle, same as a couple of Super Course bikes of the same frame size.
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Old 10-20-20, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Classtime
My distillation of Carlton/Raleigh stories is that the nice bikes have a Carlton decal.
.
Carlton was a highly esteemed cycle company when Raleigh bought them in 1960. Raleigh’s derailleur bikes were somewhat stodgy and old-fashioned, while Carltons managed to be British and en vogue at the same time. Carlton continued to produce bikes under their own name while they built the Raleigh Carltons we know and love - Super Course, RRA, Super Tourer, International, Professional, Competition and of course the Gran(d) Sport(s).

The GS and the Competition are firmly linked in my mind - I forget who it was that pointed out that the Gran Sport shown in the 1972 Raleigh catalog is actually a ‘71 Competition in the white and lagoon blue livery of the Carlton racing team. Look closely at the picture and you’ll probably agree. The two models start alternating in catalog appearances in ‘69, but it is only in 1973 that both appear, and Raleigh has sorted out how to market two bikes using the same frame geometry. The Competition gets the tubulars and the sloping fork crown, the forged (Huret!) ends and the rapid taper chain stays and fancier lugs while the GS gets the same stamped ends as the SC, one of two Vagner crowns, plain Bocama lugs and a more touring-oriented spec. But the frame design is the same and they are sisters under the skin.

Last edited by rustystrings61; 10-21-20 at 05:57 AM.
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