A 1973 Raleigh Grand Sports Project
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A 1973 Raleigh Grand Sports Project
I was waiting for another bike to sell and have bike money for what I really wanted but I slipped up, looked on CL, and saw this advertised as a project. It was touch and go with the seller and I thought I missed out. Then, while trying to look on the bright side, he lets me finish his project. No wheels, no seat, no pedals, Suntour stem-shifting V-GT instead of Simplex, and a little crusty. It doesn't take much to make the 90 minute drive worth it. Like these handle bar plugs. They're are not Velox but according to my aesthetic this GS would be less without them.
Pretty Cool
Pretty Cool
Pretty Crusty
This looks bad.
Who does this?
Pretty Cool
Pretty Cool
Pretty Crusty
This looks bad.
Who does this?
Last edited by Classtime; 10-13-20 at 03:47 PM.
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The SR stem was 22.00 which kinda freaked me out. My last great white project was a PX-10 and I braced myself. The headset lock nut was something other than 32mm--maybe 30? And the adjustable cup also wasn't 32 but something like a 40? I read a bunch of GS posts and don't recall any mention of this. I twisted out the straight alloy seat post that has no markings and tried inserting my 27.2s which won't get started in the seat tube! What is this? I tried gently threading on some normal pedals on the Nervar cranks and they went in a couple turns then stopped. Finally,
7 balls in the BB cradles. but a full set of balls in the HS.
It is so nice to get an old bike that still has its dust covers.
I found a trouble free bit on this GS--the bottom bracket is normal and came out with no shenanigans. (Lucky for me this bike had no wheels or pedals because someone may have ridden this thing and ground up the BB. It is dry caked but maybe ok.)
7 balls in the BB cradles. but a full set of balls in the HS.
It is so nice to get an old bike that still has its dust covers.
I found a trouble free bit on this GS--the bottom bracket is normal and came out with no shenanigans. (Lucky for me this bike had no wheels or pedals because someone may have ridden this thing and ground up the BB. It is dry caked but maybe ok.)
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On both my ‘73 Gran Sport and my ‘73 Competition I had to open up the seat lug where the binder bolt attaches AND I needed to run a brake cylinder hone to smooth out the inside of the seat tube and clean out the corrosion. Once that was done both took the normal 27.2 posts. Both of my 531 Raleighs spent time with badly shimmed posts but bounced back nicely!
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In case no one has chimed in with this yet, the crown on your GS is some variant of the Vagner no. 12; the GS also came with the Vagner DP + losange fraise, which looks like the crown used for the Super Course. Lugs are Bocama Professional, which may have been one of the most widely-used lugs of the 70s.
That's probably the stock T.D. Cross headset, which is usually pretty close to bulletproof. I'm running those in both of my '73 Raleighs and have been pleased so far.
As far as your cranks and pedals go, look on the back of the cranks to see if they're marked either metric or English. 1973 was the absolute utter peak year of the bike boom and the whole industry was struggling to meet demand. Specifications changed without notice, indeed! It would not surprise me at all to learn that Raleigh wound up with a quantity of French-threaded Nervar cranks and chose to run them with French pedals rather than re-tap them. That is easily done, I understand, and I have owned several Stronglight cranksets that have been re-tapped to 9/16 x 20.
The SunTour VX is a wonderful upgrade for the bike. I wound up running its ancestor, the V-GT Luxe with a SunTour AR front mech and the fabulous SunTour Power ratchet downtube shifters on my GS, and so long as it remains a derailleur-geared bike I see no reason to change that.
I took a brief spin on mine this morning to try out a saddle I just revived and was struck again by just how smooth and stable and comfortable this bike is, even with junky mis-matched wheels, heavy stiff tires and the handlebars too narrow and too low. You're in for a treat when you're done!
That's probably the stock T.D. Cross headset, which is usually pretty close to bulletproof. I'm running those in both of my '73 Raleighs and have been pleased so far.
As far as your cranks and pedals go, look on the back of the cranks to see if they're marked either metric or English. 1973 was the absolute utter peak year of the bike boom and the whole industry was struggling to meet demand. Specifications changed without notice, indeed! It would not surprise me at all to learn that Raleigh wound up with a quantity of French-threaded Nervar cranks and chose to run them with French pedals rather than re-tap them. That is easily done, I understand, and I have owned several Stronglight cranksets that have been re-tapped to 9/16 x 20.
The SunTour VX is a wonderful upgrade for the bike. I wound up running its ancestor, the V-GT Luxe with a SunTour AR front mech and the fabulous SunTour Power ratchet downtube shifters on my GS, and so long as it remains a derailleur-geared bike I see no reason to change that.
I took a brief spin on mine this morning to try out a saddle I just revived and was struck again by just how smooth and stable and comfortable this bike is, even with junky mis-matched wheels, heavy stiff tires and the handlebars too narrow and too low. You're in for a treat when you're done!
Last edited by rustystrings61; 10-13-20 at 09:59 AM.
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Thanks Rusty. I miss-spelled the Derailleur. I have the V-GT with all the steel bits. Man that thing is heavy but I got it working smoothly in the hand. The cracked Simplex front will get replaced for now with something from the bin, later with something matching, and I hope to trade the stem shifters for DT. My 9/16 taps will need to go through the cranks whether or not they are French. There is B.S. engraved on the back so maybe they are buggered or the shop forced some french pedals on there?
It cleaned up OK.
Found that little washer in the solvent sludge. ???
5 Feet.
Nice Crown to look down on.
It cleaned up OK.
Found that little washer in the solvent sludge. ???
5 Feet.
Nice Crown to look down on.
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Last edited by Classtime; 10-13-20 at 04:15 PM.
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#7
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Holy crap, that is night and day. I love where this is headed...
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Cleaned up real nice!
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If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
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Thanks Rusty. I miss-spelled the Derailleur. I have the V-GT with all the steel bits. Man that thing is heavy but I got it working smoothly in the hand. The cracked Simplex front will get replaced for now with something from the bin, later with something matching, and I hope to trade the stem shifters for DT. My 9/16 taps will need to go through the cranks whether or not they are French. There is B.S. engraved on the back so maybe they are buggered or the shop forced some french pedals on there?
It cleaned up OK.
Found that little washer in the solvent sludge. ???
5 Feet.
Nice Crown to look down on.
It cleaned up OK.
Found that little washer in the solvent sludge. ???
5 Feet.
Nice Crown to look down on.
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I second that holy crap! Looks great - very nice work.
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Got it ride-around-the-blockable
I was eager to ride this Grand Sports a bit so I assembled it with parts on hand. It rides small for how tall it is. I picked up some Gloss White Rustoleum for touch ups which seems almost doubled in price since I painted my PX-10.
I was eager to ride this Grand Sports a bit so I assembled it with parts on hand. It rides small for how tall it is. I picked up some Gloss White Rustoleum for touch ups which seems almost doubled in price since I painted my PX-10.
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Now that's a transformation! Great work.
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1987 Mercian Pro, 1985 Shogun 500, 197? Falcon San Remo, 1972 Peugeot PX-10, 1972 Schwinn Paramount P13-9, 1971 Peugeot PX-10, 1971 Raleigh International, 1970 Raleigh Professional Mark I
Curator/Team Mechanic: 2016 Dawes Streetfighter, 1984 Lotus Eclair, 1975 Motobecane Jubile Mixte, 1974 Raleigh Sports, 1973 Free Spirit Ted Williams, 1972 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Philips Sport
1987 Mercian Pro, 1985 Shogun 500, 197? Falcon San Remo, 1972 Peugeot PX-10, 1972 Schwinn Paramount P13-9, 1971 Peugeot PX-10, 1971 Raleigh International, 1970 Raleigh Professional Mark I
Curator/Team Mechanic: 2016 Dawes Streetfighter, 1984 Lotus Eclair, 1975 Motobecane Jubile Mixte, 1974 Raleigh Sports, 1973 Free Spirit Ted Williams, 1972 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Philips Sport
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That is a truly lovely bike and it has come so far from where you started! Really fine work!
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Thanks for the complements. It is a very classy frameset and very difficult to mess it up. I couldn't wait for 27 inch tires, Koolstops for the original holders, proper FD, or shifters. I was pretty happy with the way it behaved today and look forward to getting all the transmission pieces working in harmony on some long hilly rides.
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See this thread. My Oxalic Acid OA Bathtub
I changed the derailleurs and shifters, front mech and shifters are NOS, swapped the Nervar out because it's to become a triple on another bike.
The frame was part-painted, went with a slightly more cream-coloured white (Reynolds decal pic shows the old colour), masked the blue, and swore a bit while doing the gold bits. Please please please if anyone knows a touch-up that matches Lagoon Blue speak up.
Last edited by oneclick; 10-19-20 at 03:13 AM.
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As a soon-to-be novice Carlton owner (whenever my sister-in-law brings it down or my wife visits her and retrieves it), I am curious to know more about the Carlton-Raleigh connection in your vintage. I really like the way your Raleigh cleaned up -- great-looking machine. Yours does look a bit short in the top tube, which is why it "rides small," just as my Peugeot PKN-10, with its long top tube, rode so big I had to give it to my son.
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Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
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"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
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#18
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John E-
There is an overview of the Carlton/Raleigh relationship here: https://www.ebykr.com/carlton-cycles...for-greatness/
Facebook also has a Carlton Cycles of Worksop page here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1495959500629283
Those should give you a start.
There is an overview of the Carlton/Raleigh relationship here: https://www.ebykr.com/carlton-cycles...for-greatness/
Facebook also has a Carlton Cycles of Worksop page here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1495959500629283
Those should give you a start.
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A 24.5-in early 70s 531 Raleigh will "ride small," while a 21.5-in early 70s 531 Raleigh will "ride large." As far as I know, they ALL came with 57 cm top tubes, no matter what the seat tube length was. One of those Raleigh quirks. I guess they assumed you'd adjust things with saddle position and shorter or longer stem extensions.
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I have a 59.5 cm frame that's too big for me, and was surprised to find it also had a 57 cm top tube. Before that, I assumed that most bikes had pretty much the same length top tube as seat tube, but that's not the case at all.
If it's true that all Raleighs came with 57 cm top tubes, that sure makes finding one the correct size easy, since I love a 57 cm top tube.
If it's true that all Raleighs came with 57 cm top tubes, that sure makes finding one the correct size easy, since I love a 57 cm top tube.
#21
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My distillation of Carlton/Raleigh stories is that the nice bikes have a Carlton decal.
And perhaps I can ask here about the "trail" of my '73 GS. My crude measures of 35-40mm let me think this is a "low trail" bike. Anybody know if that is the case? Choice of wheels and tires alters trail some but in general, is this a low trail bike? I intend to put my new Nitto front rack and Acorn Med Bag on this bike and I understand that low trail is good for such things.
And perhaps I can ask here about the "trail" of my '73 GS. My crude measures of 35-40mm let me think this is a "low trail" bike. Anybody know if that is the case? Choice of wheels and tires alters trail some but in general, is this a low trail bike? I intend to put my new Nitto front rack and Acorn Med Bag on this bike and I understand that low trail is good for such things.
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I don't do: disks, tubeless, e-shifting, or bead head nymphs.
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#22
Newbie
I have a 59.5 cm frame that's too big for me, and was surprised to find it also had a 57 cm top tube. Before that, I assumed that most bikes had pretty much the same length top tube as seat tube, but that's not the case at all.
If it's true that all Raleighs came with 57 cm top tubes, that sure makes finding one the correct size easy, since I love a 57 cm top tube.
If it's true that all Raleighs came with 57 cm top tubes, that sure makes finding one the correct size easy, since I love a 57 cm top tube.
#23
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I measured and re-measured my ‘73 GS and my ‘73 Competition Mk II and got near identical dimensions. Both are 23.5-in to top with 22.5-in/57 cm top tubes, 73 degree parallel seat and head tubes, 85 mm of BB drop, around 44 cm chain stays with 105 cm wheelbase, 2.5-in fork rake and around 40 mm trail. That’s on the low end of trail, if not true low trail as I understand it. This matches up with my memory of the other two ‘73 Competitions and the ‘71 example I once owned. Both models get hot-rodded regularly into rando machines.
#24
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I measured and re-measured my ‘73 GS and my ‘73 Competition Mk II and got near identical dimensions. Both are 23.5-in to top with 22.5-in/57 cm top tubes, 73 degree parallel seat and head tubes, 85 mm of BB drop, around 44 cm chain stays with 105 cm wheelbase, 2.5-in fork rake and around 40 mm trail. That’s on the low end of trail, if not true low trail as I understand it. This matches up with my memory of the other two ‘73 Competitions and the ‘71 example I once owned. Both models get hot-rodded regularly into rando machines.
#25
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The GS and the Competition are firmly linked in my mind - I forget who it was that pointed out that the Gran Sport shown in the 1972 Raleigh catalog is actually a ‘71 Competition in the white and lagoon blue livery of the Carlton racing team. Look closely at the picture and you’ll probably agree. The two models start alternating in catalog appearances in ‘69, but it is only in 1973 that both appear, and Raleigh has sorted out how to market two bikes using the same frame geometry. The Competition gets the tubulars and the sloping fork crown, the forged (Huret!) ends and the rapid taper chain stays and fancier lugs while the GS gets the same stamped ends as the SC, one of two Vagner crowns, plain Bocama lugs and a more touring-oriented spec. But the frame design is the same and they are sisters under the skin.
Last edited by rustystrings61; 10-21-20 at 05:57 AM.
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