Italian fixed cup install: grease, thread lock, or ..?
10-20-20, 01:51 PM
#1
señor miembro
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Italian fixed cup install: grease, thread lock, or ..?
I don't usually remove the fixed cup during an overhaul, but I do always check if it's secure. This Sugino cup, from a '72 Torpado, came loose fairly easily with an adjustable wrench. So I removed it for cleaning. Now, how to secure it? What's your method? Just a little bit of grease? An ample supply of blue Loctite? Some combo? (Does that even make sense?) I can't remember the last time I did this for an Italian...
And, yeah, it has Sugino cups and crankset and a Campy spindle.
And, yeah, it has Sugino cups and crankset and a Campy spindle.
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10-20-20, 02:16 PM
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In my experience, simply tightening it enough (ca. 40 Nxm) is sufficient to keep it in place. Locktight isn't necessary, and might even make it too hard to remove in the future. Mine stayed put between 1989 and 2017, and I actually had to take it to my bike shop to have it removed. It had not loosened at all. If you put anything on the threads, a very thin coating of thread anti-seize (like what Park Tool makes -the grey stuff) is all that is required.
(I resisted the temptation to reply in the way you have to me in the past. It would be a matter for gratitude if it were at some point reciprocated.)
(I resisted the temptation to reply in the way you have to me in the past. It would be a matter for gratitude if it were at some point reciprocated.)
10-20-20, 02:24 PM
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I would use grease or blue Loctite. Blue Loctite doesn't make anything hard to remove. I'm not sure it would help keep the cup in at all, but it won't hurt, either. I've heard of people using red Loctite, but you need to use heat to remove. Blue Loctite is intended to prevent things from coming out from vibration. Fixed cups come out because of precession, not vibration.
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10-20-20, 02:31 PM
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I don't usually remove the fixed cup during an overhaul, but I do always check if it's secure. This Sugino cup, from a '72 Torpado, came loose fairly easily with an adjustable wrench. So I removed it for cleaning. Now, how to secure it? What's your method? Just a little bit of grease? An ample supply of blue Loctite? Some combo? (Does that even make sense?) I can't remember the last time I did this for an Italian...
And, yeah, it has Sugino cups and crankset and a Campy spindle.
And, yeah, it has Sugino cups and crankset and a Campy spindle.
Clean threads, cup and shell, small smear of grease, then good and tight.
As should be done every time.
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10-20-20, 02:35 PM
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...I routinely use blue Loctite on all RH threaded fixed cups now. I have one of those Hozan fixed cup tools, so I can install with plenty of torque, but it's like belt and suspenders. Once you've had one back out in use, you start to figure it's cheap insurance.
...I routinely use blue Loctite on all RH threaded fixed cups now. I have one of those Hozan fixed cup tools, so I can install with plenty of torque, but it's like belt and suspenders. Once you've had one back out in use, you start to figure it's cheap insurance.
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10-20-20, 02:53 PM
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I am well aware of your systematic method and my embraced lack of complete thoroughness! 
What about volume? Just like one would use grease on both cup and shell? Or ..?
10-20-20, 02:57 PM
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The end result yields the best way to get it tight AND get it apart next time.
You can also use Super glue for Loctite, just don't get carried away.
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10-20-20, 03:01 PM
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I've tried to get the non-drive side cup of a cartridge BB out using your methodology of levers and it hasn't worked yet...it thinks it is a fixed cup...(I was able to remove the DS)
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10-20-20, 03:03 PM
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I think olive oil would be culturally appropriate.
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10-20-20, 03:11 PM
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If you are pushing in on the retainer with a tool and clamp, you are adding to the friction, it needs to only rotate without pushing in on the tool and retaining ring.
It was developed for the DS originally and specifically but has always worked on the NDS of cup and cone BB's as well.
If we emailed about the method in the past, I would like to see pics of what's going on. PM if need be.
Last edited by merziac; 10-20-20 at 03:17 PM.
10-20-20, 03:11 PM
#11
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10-20-20, 03:15 PM
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Traditionally they'd would be put on with just grease, but using a real fixed cup tool -- not a wrench, and plenty of torque. I was taught to use a breaker bar/pipe with the campy fixed cup tool.
If doing it at home with more commonly available tools, I'd suggest blue loctite.
If doing it at home with more commonly available tools, I'd suggest blue loctite.
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10-20-20, 03:46 PM
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As you torque down the fixed cup, it has a tendency to squeeze into any place you might have missed, because of the liquid consistency of it.
I suppose someone in the future might have trouble removing one of my installs. But I had trouble removing it too. So welcome to my world.
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10-20-20, 04:18 PM
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Bloo Locktite - you'll be glad once you get 50 miles from home.
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10-20-20, 06:57 PM
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The BB in my Italian frame is a cartridge job, so not sure if it's still relevant, but I just used grease and set my torque wrench to far king tight.
10-20-20, 07:04 PM
#17
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I use grease (or Park Anti-seize). When I tried to remove the cup from my 87 Pinarello a couple of years ago (it had last been installed in around '95) I needed to rig something up to clamp the wrench against the frame and then pound it loose with a rubber mallet. Ditto the Colnago.
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10-20-20, 07:12 PM
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I am staunchly non cartridge and have never needed to adapt this method to it since it saves all BB's I use it on.
If you are pushing in on the retainer with a tool and clamp, you are adding to the friction, it needs to only rotate without pushing in on the tool and retaining ring.
It was developed for the DS originally and specifically but has always worked on the NDS of cup and cone BB's as well.
If we emailed about the method in the past, I would like to see pics of what's going on. PM if need be.
If you are pushing in on the retainer with a tool and clamp, you are adding to the friction, it needs to only rotate without pushing in on the tool and retaining ring.
It was developed for the DS originally and specifically but has always worked on the NDS of cup and cone BB's as well.
If we emailed about the method in the past, I would like to see pics of what's going on. PM if need be.
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1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1980s Vanni Losa Cassani thingy, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1980s Vanni Losa Cassani thingy, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super
10-20-20, 07:25 PM
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10-20-20, 07:31 PM
#21
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Like the white roll you'd find at the hardware store to use on sink faucet threads? Assume you grease the shell and tape the cup. I like this idea. Seems like it would help prevent moisture, too.
10-20-20, 07:50 PM
#22
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I thought teflon tape was to create a seal, not as a threadlock. The stuff is slippery, after all.
You can use as much blue Loctite as you want. The only part that will actually cure is that which is deprived of oxygen - it is anaerobic. The rest will remain liquid and will wipe off after you've finished assembly. Good stuff, I use it on the two cylinder diesel engine in my boat which vibrates like crazy, but things assembled with blue Loctite stay put.
You can use as much blue Loctite as you want. The only part that will actually cure is that which is deprived of oxygen - it is anaerobic. The rest will remain liquid and will wipe off after you've finished assembly. Good stuff, I use it on the two cylinder diesel engine in my boat which vibrates like crazy, but things assembled with blue Loctite stay put.
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10-20-20, 07:57 PM
#23
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Never had problems just using grease and tightening hard with a 40cm/16" pipe extension.
10-20-20, 08:02 PM
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I used to use Phil grease, then hand the bike drive side down over the bench vise, grab the cup with the vise jaws, then tighten using the frame as a good sized wrench. (I love left-hand drive side threads. So much easier.) I never had a vise tightened French cup loosen (and they were on a UO-8 that did a few 100+ mile rides as my fix gear training bike in my racing days),
10-20-20, 08:05 PM
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I used to use Phil grease, then hand the bike drive side down over the bench vise, grab the cup with the vise jaws, then tighten using the frame as a good sized wrench. (I love left-hand drive side threads. So much easier.) I never had a vise tightened French cup loosen (and they were on a UO-8 that did a few 100+ mile rides as my fix gear training bike in my racing days),
