Late 80's Cilo - seeking info & input
10-20-20, 03:44 PM
#1
bill nyecycles
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Houston TX
Posts: 3,330
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 781 Post(s)
Liked 338 Times
in
184 Posts
Late 80's Cilo - seeking info & input
Some of you probably saw me ask about this bike a few times already before I actually bought it, but I have it now, and have a few more questions; mainly - can anyone help me figure out what year it's from? The guy I bought it from said it was either a 1986 or 1987 but he wasn't sure. The only other identifier was the cable guide on the bottom bracket with labeled it as a Vitus Depose, and what appears to maybe be a serial stamped there: 89805C. Is it possible it's stupidly simple that means its from 1989 (May 8th, or August 5th, depending on how the Swiss wrote their dates)?
Many pics below.
Things I know:
-Shimano 600 everything, with 105 levers
-Columbus Aelle tubing
-Mavic G40 rims
-6 rear speeds
-sweet chrome fork
Things I don't know:
-what kind of tool do I need for that headset? I've never seen one like that.
-tell me about this 3ttt stem & bars as I've never heard of it.
Plans:
-new cables & housing everywhere
-true wheels
-new brake pads
-700x28 Pasaleas
-new saddle
Possibles (here's where I need help):
-new bars or stem depending on final needs for fit, and I don't particularly like that shape of bar anyway, but we'll see
-new levers - I'm not a fan of the old style hoods/levers, even if they are nice Shimano 105
-Can the Shimano 600 F & R derailleurs work with indexed STI levers? (obviously means replacing the downtube levers with guides instead, OR replacing the downtube shifters with indexed versions)
-Can that wheelset accommodate a new more-speeds cassette? If my measuring of 130 rear spacing is correct, then I could possibly fit up to a 10 speed according to Sheldon Brown? What are my options here?
Many pics below.
Things I know:
-Shimano 600 everything, with 105 levers
-Columbus Aelle tubing
-Mavic G40 rims
-6 rear speeds
-sweet chrome fork
Things I don't know:
-what kind of tool do I need for that headset? I've never seen one like that.
-tell me about this 3ttt stem & bars as I've never heard of it.
Plans:
-new cables & housing everywhere
-true wheels
-new brake pads
-700x28 Pasaleas
-new saddle
Possibles (here's where I need help):
-new bars or stem depending on final needs for fit, and I don't particularly like that shape of bar anyway, but we'll see
-new levers - I'm not a fan of the old style hoods/levers, even if they are nice Shimano 105
-Can the Shimano 600 F & R derailleurs work with indexed STI levers? (obviously means replacing the downtube levers with guides instead, OR replacing the downtube shifters with indexed versions)
-Can that wheelset accommodate a new more-speeds cassette? If my measuring of 130 rear spacing is correct, then I could possibly fit up to a 10 speed according to Sheldon Brown? What are my options here?
Likes For the sci guy:
10-21-20, 09:09 AM
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 23,233
Mentioned: 638 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4707 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2,989 Times
in
1,850 Posts
This model is simply called the Cilo Aelle. The Shimano New 600EX is OEM and I'm assuming that the Shimano 105 brake levers were replacement to get the SLR and aero features. I recall this model coming with the option of a tubular or high performance wired-on wheelset. MSRP would have been ~$500-$550 US, depending on the model year.
I'm not sure about the format that Cilo used for the S/N but New 600EX was manufactured for the 1984-1987 model years. It definitely wouldn't be 1989 or even 1988. Given the 'C' suffix, it might be late 1983 manufacture for the 1984 model year or maybe March 1985. To identify the probable model year, we'd need the date codes from the Shimano components.
For the 1986 model year, Shimano released an optional, SIS compatible version of the New 600EX rear derailleur. The outwardly apparent changes were the incorpation of an SIS logo, dark anodized parellogram outer arm, a slant parallelogram design and the detented cable adjuster. I haven't tried the friction version of the New 600EX rear derailleur with an SIS or STI shift lever but my guess would be that they are not compatible.
Before anybody asks, the presence of a friction system does not mean it's pre-1986. The SIS version was a option and Cilo spec'd this model with the friction option in at least 1986. I can only assume that this was a cost concession, as the Cilo-Aufina pro team used the prototype version of New Dura-Ace (with SIS) in 1984 to win the Tour de Suisse with Urs Zimmermann.
I'm not sure about the format that Cilo used for the S/N but New 600EX was manufactured for the 1984-1987 model years. It definitely wouldn't be 1989 or even 1988. Given the 'C' suffix, it might be late 1983 manufacture for the 1984 model year or maybe March 1985. To identify the probable model year, we'd need the date codes from the Shimano components.
For the 1986 model year, Shimano released an optional, SIS compatible version of the New 600EX rear derailleur. The outwardly apparent changes were the incorpation of an SIS logo, dark anodized parellogram outer arm, a slant parallelogram design and the detented cable adjuster. I haven't tried the friction version of the New 600EX rear derailleur with an SIS or STI shift lever but my guess would be that they are not compatible.
Before anybody asks, the presence of a friction system does not mean it's pre-1986. The SIS version was a option and Cilo spec'd this model with the friction option in at least 1986. I can only assume that this was a cost concession, as the Cilo-Aufina pro team used the prototype version of New Dura-Ace (with SIS) in 1984 to win the Tour de Suisse with Urs Zimmermann.
10-21-20, 11:22 AM
#3
bill nyecycles
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Houston TX
Posts: 3,330
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 781 Post(s)
Liked 338 Times
in
184 Posts
Originally Posted by T-Mar
This model is simply called the Cilo Aelle. The Shimano New 600EX is OEM and I'm assuming that the Shimano 105 brake levers were replacement to get the SLR and aero features. I recall this model coming with the option of a tubular or high performance wired-on wheelset. MSRP would have been ~$500-$550 US, depending on the model year.
I'm not sure about the format that Cilo used for the S/N but New 600EX was manufactured for the 1984-1987 model years. It definitely wouldn't be 1989 or even 1988. Given the 'C' suffix, it might be late 1983 manufacture for the 1984 model year or maybe March 1985. To identify the probable model year, we'd need the date codes from the Shimano components.
For the 1986 model year, Shimano released an optional, SIS compatible version of the New 600EX rear derailleur. The outwardly apparent changes were the incorpation of an SIS logo, dark anodized parellogram outer arm, a slant parallelogram design and the detented cable adjuster. I haven't tried the friction version of the New 600EX rear derailleur with an SIS or STI shift lever but my guess would be that they are not compatible.
Before anybody asks, the presence of a friction system does not mean it's pre-1986. The SIS version was a option and Cilo spec'd this model with the friction option in at least 1986. I can only assume that this was a cost concession, as the Cilo-Aufina pro team used the prototype version of New Dura-Ace (with SIS) in 1984 to win the Tour de Suisse with Urs Zimmermann.
I'm not sure about the format that Cilo used for the S/N but New 600EX was manufactured for the 1984-1987 model years. It definitely wouldn't be 1989 or even 1988. Given the 'C' suffix, it might be late 1983 manufacture for the 1984 model year or maybe March 1985. To identify the probable model year, we'd need the date codes from the Shimano components.
For the 1986 model year, Shimano released an optional, SIS compatible version of the New 600EX rear derailleur. The outwardly apparent changes were the incorpation of an SIS logo, dark anodized parellogram outer arm, a slant parallelogram design and the detented cable adjuster. I haven't tried the friction version of the New 600EX rear derailleur with an SIS or STI shift lever but my guess would be that they are not compatible.
Before anybody asks, the presence of a friction system does not mean it's pre-1986. The SIS version was a option and Cilo spec'd this model with the friction option in at least 1986. I can only assume that this was a cost concession, as the Cilo-Aufina pro team used the prototype version of New Dura-Ace (with SIS) in 1984 to win the Tour de Suisse with Urs Zimmermann.
Where can I find the date codes for the components?
Here's 1 pic I snapped of info stamped on the back of the crank, does it help? I can scour the rear derailleur and/or brakes for further info shortly..
10-21-20, 12:13 PM
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 331
Bikes: '68 Masi Special road, Grail bike
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 108 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 70 Times
in
58 Posts
3ttt later changed to 3T stands for Tubo Techno Torino. possibly the best bars and stems ever made.
they proved that bulged bars (larger at the stem section) were lighter and stronger than sleeved bars
like Cinelli. not to be confused with bulged looking bars (with a steel center sleeve) like ITM. but in the end
it's fit and feel that matters in bars. 3T had a Felice Gimondi bend that dropped off fast from the tops
(like a track bar) b4 becoming a normal road bar in the drops. no other bar is made this way
I think they're pretty hard to find now...
they proved that bulged bars (larger at the stem section) were lighter and stronger than sleeved bars
like Cinelli. not to be confused with bulged looking bars (with a steel center sleeve) like ITM. but in the end
it's fit and feel that matters in bars. 3T had a Felice Gimondi bend that dropped off fast from the tops
(like a track bar) b4 becoming a normal road bar in the drops. no other bar is made this way
I think they're pretty hard to find now...
10-21-20, 12:34 PM
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 23,233
Mentioned: 638 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4707 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2,989 Times
in
1,850 Posts
The date code on the crankarms is 'JD' , which is '1985, April'. So it should be a 1985 or 1986 model.
10-21-20, 05:08 PM
#6
bill nyecycles
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Houston TX
Posts: 3,330
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 781 Post(s)
Liked 338 Times
in
184 Posts
Originally Posted by T-Mar
The date code on the crankarms is 'JD' , which is '1985, April'. So it should be a 1985 or 1986 model.
10-21-20, 07:35 PM
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 23,233
Mentioned: 638 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4707 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2,989 Times
in
1,850 Posts
Brake caliper is January 1985, while front derailleur is July 1985. No code showing on the rear derailleur. The New 600EX rear derailleur typically has the code stamped on the inside of the outer cage arm. adjacent to the pivot. Regardless, the July 1985 front derailleur puts it into the grey area where it could be a 1985 or 1986 model. European companies typically started building the new models are the beginning of September, shortly after the World Championships and a derailleur manufactured in July probably didn't reach Cilo until at least August.
Likes For T-Mar:
10-21-20, 08:57 PM
#8
bill nyecycles
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Houston TX
Posts: 3,330
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 781 Post(s)
Liked 338 Times
in
184 Posts
Originally Posted by T-Mar
Brake caliper is January 1985, while front derailleur is July 1985. No code showing on the rear derailleur. The New 600EX rear derailleur typically has the code stamped on the inside of the outer cage arm. adjacent to the pivot. Regardless, the July 1985 front derailleur puts it into the grey area where it could be a 1985 or 1986 model. European companies typically started building the new models are the beginning of September, shortly after the World Championships and a derailleur manufactured in July probably didn't reach Cilo until at least August.
Well unless I can find an SIS rear derailleur and shifters, I’m stuck with friction which is a bit disappointing. I’d love to make this a classic frame with some modern parts but without a complete budget breaking group set rebuild.
Oh well it’s ok. It’s gonna be nice either way. Someone above said these 3T stem & bars are a very nice set of components but I’ll have to see how I like the feel and fit.
Well, guess I’ll just start by cleaning and getting new cables.
10-22-20, 07:45 PM
#9
bill nyecycles
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Houston TX
Posts: 3,330
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 781 Post(s)
Liked 338 Times
in
184 Posts
T-Mar I took off pretty much everything from the bike today and looked for the date codes and looked them up. Here's what I've got thus far
Bottom Bracket: Drive side March 87, non-drive side Feb 87
Front Der: July 85
Rear Der: June 85
Crank: April 85
Brake Calipers: Jan 85
Brake levers (Shimano 105, not 600
Dec 87 & Jan 88 - after market add-on I believe
Front hub: Nov 84
Rear hub: Mar 85
All the pics of the parts I've took so far are here if you want to see the date codes: https://www.flickr.com/photos/rattle...57716521761633
So maybe since the BB is from '87, is it possible the frame is that model year as well? It's weird to see so many parts from different years on a build - is this how it always is?
Bottom Bracket: Drive side March 87, non-drive side Feb 87
Front Der: July 85
Rear Der: June 85
Crank: April 85
Brake Calipers: Jan 85
Brake levers (Shimano 105, not 600
Dec 87 & Jan 88 - after market add-on I believeFront hub: Nov 84
Rear hub: Mar 85
All the pics of the parts I've took so far are here if you want to see the date codes: https://www.flickr.com/photos/rattle...57716521761633
So maybe since the BB is from '87, is it possible the frame is that model year as well? It's weird to see so many parts from different years on a build - is this how it always is?
11-02-20, 12:01 PM
#10
bill nyecycles
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Houston TX
Posts: 3,330
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 781 Post(s)
Liked 338 Times
in
184 Posts
So far things are going well. The BB appears to be in great shape. Just going to regrease it and put it back. Headset feels good - still waiting for the wrenches to arrive though.
But everything else was pulled off and cleaned and looks nice now. Still attacking some rust or corrosion maybe? on the frame. I'm not 100% sure what it is.
Anyway, here's the stuff so far
But everything else was pulled off and cleaned and looks nice now. Still attacking some rust or corrosion maybe? on the frame. I'm not 100% sure what it is.
Anyway, here's the stuff so far
