Originally Posted by markk900
(Post 21753108)
In many things Italian "super" = "extra" - Super leggera = "extra lightweight" not "better lightweight" - so not always indicative of a boast about quality (well, still a boast I suppose!).
Originally Posted by CargoDane
(Post 21754575)
No, in this case ("pro-strada" and "pro-pista") means "for" the road and "for" the track.
|
Originally Posted by robertorolfo
(Post 21762004)
It was a good way to denote a higher level/standard of equipment, using a term that is fairly universal (or global). They, I would say correctly, probably figured it was easier for foreign markets to understand than the usual suffixes like -issimo/issima, even if those have more cache these days (a specialissma sounds, well, special!)
Nah. As someone said, the "pro" part is the level, and the "strada/pista" is the application. Pro is sometimes used in modern Italian to say "in favor of," just as it is used in English, but that's about it, other than professional(e). If you talk about "level" and differentiate that from the usage to denote "professional", please do tell what other thing than "professional" "pro" can stand for? What are the other "levels" that is in no way related to "professional"? Edit: Pro or con: For or against. |
NOT a Superissimo label, as having durability....
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...f31480bc_b.jpgP1040378 on Flickr |
You only have to say it out loud. Let it be so!
|
Originally Posted by TLaurent
(Post 21752755)
Thanks to COVID and being an empty nester, I’ve dusted off my interest in bikes and have begun a couple 70s and 80s Italian builds because those old rides are beautiful and are an important part of bicycle history. I’m learning a lot and realize how little I know and am enjoying the ride. I keep coming across the word “Super” and am hoping that the forum can educate me. There are many frames for sale on the internet for Super versions including Colnago Super, Tommassini Super Prestige, Bianchi Super Corsa, and several less popular brands that seem to have gone by the wayside but deemed including the word Super on the frames to establish a higher level of quality. Does this mean that they were originally equipped with Campagnolo Super Record group sets or does it have to do with the material that the frames were made from? Is it just a marketing ploy or is there real value to Super frames?
but of course, no one beats the italians for style :) https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6c424d67b2.jpg |
Originally Posted by CargoDane
(Post 21762021)
And translated into English in the context, it would be "for the street" and "for the track". Not "in favor of the street" and "in favor of the track". Neither is it "professional street", "professional track".
If you talk about "level" and differentiate that from the usage to denote "professional", please do tell what other thing than "professional" "pro" can stand for? What are the other "levels" that is in no way related to "professional"? If a manufacturer sells two versions of a bike and calls one "Corsa" and the more expensive one "Corsa Pro", I think your explanation falls apart; Pro is short for Professional. You'd have to prove all the manufacturers who use this nomenclature are doing it wrong. Also for example we also have the English language versions of Stumpjumper, Stumpjumper Comp, and Stumpjumper Pro, in which "Comp" and "Pro" are clearly distinguishing buzzwords indicating quality/price bumps having nothing to do with intended use. |
Originally Posted by DiabloScott
(Post 21764613)
I don't buy it.
If a manufacturer sells two versions of a bike and calls one "Corsa" and the more expensive one "Corsa Pro", I think your explanation falls apart; Pro is short for Professional. You'd have to prove all the manufacturers who use this nomenclature are doing it wrong. Also for example we also have the English language versions of Stumpjumper, Stumpjumper Comp, and Stumpjumper Pro, in which "Comp" and "Pro" are clearly distinguishing buzzwords indicating quality/price bumps having nothing to do with intended use. |
Originally Posted by bikingshearer
(Post 21755723)
The best part about the Cinelli Super Corsa moniker is that it only exists because of a decal supplier's typo. Up until (I think) the early to mid-70s, Cinelli always called the model "Speciale Corsa." Somewhere along the line, they ordered new decals. They wanted "Speciale Corsa." The printer gave them "Super Corsa." I am not sure if this happened before or after Cino sold the company to the Columbos (somewhere around 1978), but it appears that whoever was in charge said "what the heck" and used them. Hence the names "Speciale Corsa" and "Super Corsa" became interchangeable. "Super Corsa" eventualy won out. It probably did not help that, up until the 1960s sometime, the sticker that went on the frames said "Mod. S.C.", meaning "Super Corsa" was a reasonable guess at the model name for the non-cognoscenti.
Also, prior to Cino's involvement, when Giotto owned Cinelli, he sold a Speciale Corsa frame. Masi and Bianchi also used "Special" in their bike names. Not as common as Super, but still pretty common. |
Forgot, Legnano also had a Specialissimo.
|
Originally Posted by iab
(Post 21765241)
Forgot, Legnano also had a Specialissimo.
|
I'm just really super struggling to see the point of attempting to deconstruct some marketing decision (probably) on a bike name. I suppose that I'm just turbo stoopidissimo. Or would that be Pro Stoopidissimo? Or Stoopidissimo Professional?
I'm gonna call my bike line Turbo Pro Super Specialissimo Corsa Professional so there is no question about its superissimo excellence |
Originally Posted by Steel Charlie
(Post 21766241)
I'm just really super struggling to see the point of attempting to deconstruct some marketing decision (probably) on a bike name. I suppose that I'm just turbo stoopidissimo. Or would that be Pro Stoopidissimo? Or Stoopidissimo Professional?
I'm gonna call my bike line Turbo Pro Super Specialissimo Corsa Professional so there is no question about its superissimo excellence |
Originally Posted by Steel Charlie
(Post 21766241)
I'm just really super struggling to see the point of attempting to deconstruct some marketing decision (probably) on a bike name.
|
Originally Posted by Mogens
(Post 21754791)
Generally, it felt to me like Italian uses a relatively small number of adjectives relative to English, ‘brutto’ and ‘bello’ chiefly. I haven’t been there in 25 years, so I don’t know if that’s the case any more.
Yes, it is true that bello and brutto are very common, but what would they have to say about the way most American English speakers use the word "like"?
Originally Posted by CargoDane
(Post 21762021)
And translated into English in the context, it would be "for the street" and "for the track". Not "in favor of the street" and "in favor of the track". Neither is it "professional street", "professional track".
If you talk about "level" and differentiate that from the usage to denote "professional", please do tell what other thing than "professional" "pro" can stand for? What are the other "levels" that is in no way related to "professional"? Edit: Pro or con: For or against. It is very common for a model name to have a modifier tacked on at the end to indicate a higher spec. Or the "pro" itself could be a model name. Either way, they added the "strada" and "pista" at the end to indicate the intended use, and those words alone take care of that. The "pro" had nothing to do with the intended use. |
Originally Posted by iab
(Post 21766387)
I have nothing better to do. :(
|
It wasn't the "strada pro" and the "coursa pro", though.
Context matters: A pro bike = A professional bike or a bike for professionals A pro bono job = Literally: For the public good. Often it means "doing something for free - usually judicial work. Pro or con = For or against, but often used as "good or bad things about xx" Pro Brexit = Someone who is for the UK to exit the European Union Pro car = Either someone advocating for cars or a car that is professional in some area Car pro = Someone who makes a living in or around cars. There is also a difference between a "pro bike" and a "bike pro". The context in which those are used will be translated differently to English with different connotations (although "for" is almost always there if the "Pro" is there as the first word). The moment it is in English, it has to conform to the English language. Not that it matters in the end. It's just language and at this point, I really don't care that much. |
Originally Posted by CargoDane
(Post 21766401)
It wasn't the "strada pro" and the "coursa pro", though.
Context matters: A pro bike = A professional bike or a bike for professionals A pro bono job = Literally: For the public good. Often it means "doing something for free - usually judicial work. Pro or con = For or against, but often used as "good or bad things about xx" Pro Brexit = Someone who is for the UK to exit the European Union Pro car = Either someone advocating for cars or a car that is professional in some area Car pro = Someone who makes a living in or around cars. There is also a difference between a "pro bike" and a "bike pro". The context in which those are used will be translated differently to English with different connotations (although "for" is almost always there if the "Pro" is there as the first word). The moment it is in English, it has to conform to the English language. Not that it matters in the end. It's just language and at this point, I really don't care that much. Yah. Mind blown. |
Originally Posted by CargoDane
(Post 21766401)
It wasn't the "strada pro" and the "coursa pro", though.
Context matters: A pro bike = A professional bike or a bike for professionals A pro bono job = Literally: For the public good. Often it means "doing something for free - usually judicial work. Pro or con = For or against, but often used as "good or bad things about xx" Pro Brexit = Someone who is for the UK to exit the European Union Pro car = Either someone advocating for cars or a car that is professional in some area Car pro = Someone who makes a living in or around cars. There is also a difference between a "pro bike" and a "bike pro". What about Pro Tour? And the bike model "for" a professional would be the Pro Pro ... that sounds very French. In a similar vein, how about a list of Italian brands that are just spelled out acronyms? Gipiemme = GPM Aelle = AL Biemme = BM |
Originally Posted by DiabloScott
(Post 21766832)
Note, not one of those is Italian. Perhaps that is my major disagreement with your point. Do you have other examples besides Medici/Confente?
What about Pro Tour? And the bike model "for" a professional would be the Pro Pro ... that sounds very French. I know they're italian - Pro Corsa and Pro Strada. That's not the point. The point is that those words when translated into English says something in English. You cannot translate something into another language and then refuse to use the language you translated it into. In a similar vein, how about a list of Italian brands that are just spelled out acronyms? Gipiemme = GPM Aelle = AL Biemme = BM But again, brand acronyms are not really in discussion, and I have no idea what point you're trying to make with that nugget. Edit: I just realised you meant the other way around: That the words is how you sound the letters in whatever language. Well, if they actually use the spelling out of the sounds of the letters, then the result really doesn't have any meaning, does it? If they only pronounce it, but use the actual letters on their stuff (not the sounding of the letters), then that will be pronounced differently around the world. But anyway, if they use the word "Aelle" rather than writing/printing "AL", then that word is just a meaningless word, you don't translate that, as THAT now has become the brand name. |
I always found it funny that Univega liked using "Specialissima" on their top of the line touring bike, maybe the least Italian style of bike you can make.
Like most of their model names, they liked pulling from their Italvega days and using Italian-sounding stuff. They really liked themselves some "Super", or "Special" - Super Strada, Superlight, I think they even went all the way and had their top road model named the Super Special for a few years. |
Originally Posted by Wileyone
(Post 21753518)
I wonder when "Tactical" will be applied to bikes? If it already hasn't.
Speaking of Specialized, I'm not sure it was them, but especially in MTBs, they seemed to start the loose hierarchy of component levels being labeled Sport/Comp/Pro/Team. "Team" or "Team Issue" definitely seemed popular to denote an absolute top of the line halo bike back in the 90s.
Originally Posted by repechage
(Post 21755922)
The SC, S.C., speciale corsa, Super Corsa, Supercorsa causes all kinds of grief.
i have found them languishing on eBay when not enough key terms have been used. . E) dangit, had this thread open from another search and didn't realize it was old, whoops |
So super
I have a Gitane Super Corsa. That’s Italian in French!
|
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:01 AM. |
Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.