What is my sealed bottom bracket? NOT shimano
10-22-20, 10:59 AM
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What is my sealed bottom bracket? NOT shimano
This is a "sentimental" bike restoration of a bike that was custom built for my good friend, Doug's, father. This bike was custom built in the late 70's. It has all the state of the art components of the time. I finally got the cranks off with a TA puller I ordered.
Lots of Campy components
TA Cranks
It does have a sealed bottom bracket, and it probably not original. When I tried the Shimano BB tool, it doesn't line up, though it looks very much like it would. I checked carefully.
It is not Campy.
What other style of sealed bottom bracket could it be? And yes,this bike is beat up, it is a labor of love for a very dear friend.
Photo is of drive side, same on other side.
Sealed bottom braket. ISO square taper for TA crank
Lots of Campy components
TA Cranks
It does have a sealed bottom bracket, and it probably not original. When I tried the Shimano BB tool, it doesn't line up, though it looks very much like it would. I checked carefully.
It is not Campy.
What other style of sealed bottom bracket could it be? And yes,this bike is beat up, it is a labor of love for a very dear friend.
Photo is of drive side, same on other side.
Sealed bottom braket. ISO square taper for TA crank
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10-22-20, 11:02 AM
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Looks like a Phil Wood unit to me!
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10-22-20, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by rustystrings61
Looks like a Phil Wood unit to me!
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10-22-20, 11:29 AM
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Circa the late 70s, a TA crank and Phil Wood BB was the hot setup for touring, or for someone who wanted a triple or other non race gearing. Older bike shops will still have the remover for those if you don't want to buy one. Phil will rebuild them for a modest fee if it has gotten crunchy in the last 40+ years.
Shimano copied Phil, not the other way around. Just to make that clear...
Shimano copied Phil, not the other way around. Just to make that clear...
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10-22-20, 12:16 PM
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I concur; looks like a Phil mounting ring (N.B. Phil rings do fit other cartridges, so there's a small, but non-zero chance that the cartridge itself might not be Phil).
But not closely enough to use the same tool as Phil 
Originally Posted by Salamandrine
Shimano copied Phil, not the other way around. Just to make that clear...
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10-22-20, 12:28 PM
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Yep, Phil Wood. I had a pleasant surprise like that on one of my bikes, too!
10-22-20, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine
Circa the late 70s, a TA crank and Phil Wood BB was the hot setup for touring, or for someone who wanted a triple or other non race gearing. Older bike shops will still have the remover for those if you don't want to buy one. Phil will rebuild them for a modest fee if it has gotten crunchy in the last 40+ years.
Shimano copied Phil, not the other way around. Just to make that clear...
Shimano copied Phil, not the other way around. Just to make that clear...
10-23-20, 05:18 AM
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Originally Posted by noobinsf
Yep, Phil Wood. I had a pleasant surprise like that on one of my bikes, too!
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10-23-20, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson
I concur; looks like a Phil mounting ring (N.B. Phil rings do fit other cartridges, so there's a small, but non-zero chance that the cartridge itself might not be Phil).
But not closely enough to use the same tool as Phil
But not closely enough to use the same tool as Phil
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10-23-20, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by repechage
I bought a bike with what I thought was a Phil bottom bracket... nope, Phil rings, stronglight spindle and French bearings.
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10-26-20, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Murray Missile
I'll 2nd that.
Originally Posted by rustystrings61
Looks like a Phil Wood unit to me!
Originally Posted by Salamandrine
Circa the late 70s, a TA crank and Phil Wood BB was the hot setup for touring, or for someone who wanted a triple or other non race gearing. Older bike shops will still have the remover for those if you don't want to buy one. Phil will rebuild them for a modest fee if it has gotten crunchy in the last 40+ years.
Shimano copied Phil, not the other way around. Just to make that clear...
Shimano copied Phil, not the other way around. Just to make that clear...
Originally Posted by JohnDThompson
I concur; looks like a Phil mounting ring (N.B. Phil rings do fit other cartridges, so there's a small, but non-zero chance that the cartridge itself might not be Phil).
But not closely enough to use the same tool as Phil
But not closely enough to use the same tool as Phil
Originally Posted by noobinsf
Yep, Phil Wood. I had a pleasant surprise like that on one of my bikes, too!
While this is a "sentimental" restoration, it is being done on a budget. My friend Doug really doesn't want a "restoration" per se, he wants it to be functional so that his grown son can take it on an occasional ride. Doug has a shortened lease on life, and is clearing things out of his life. His son worked with Ibis and did about 15K miles on his aborted solo around the world trip.( Siberian roads and massive trucks made him value his life more than the ride.) Son will only ride occasionally and the bike will probably live in garage, a momento, not a daily (sigh). So I am doing what I can to make it ride-able.
The BB bearings are a tiny bit crunchy, but rotate without binding at all. I am afraid that removing it may be really difficult, as the rings look like they are rusted solid to the shell.
But thanks so much.
The wheel hubs look like PW also, stainless steel, with signature press in bearing, high flange, BUT there is no red "phil Wood" lettering on them. Did they make them without the signature?
Thanks again. I am lucky to be a member of this community.
Nubra
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Last edited by Nubra; 10-26-20 at 10:41 AM. Reason: spelling and add info
10-26-20, 11:12 AM
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Don't give up on the Phil mounting rings; PowerBlaster is your friend. See if you can carefully start infiltrating the stuff right where the rings join the BB shell, without getting too much into the bearings themselves. If it freed up the bolts holding the bed of my '97 Ford Ranger in place, it'll probably work for this, too!
10-26-20, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Nubra
The wheel hubs look like PW also, stainless steel, with signature press in bearing, high flange, BUT there is no red "phil Wood" lettering on them. Did they make them without the signature?
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10-26-20, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by The Golden Boy
The older ones have the logo just either painted or screened on, and it does come off.
THANKS
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10-26-20, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by rustystrings61
Don't give up on the Phil mounting rings; PowerBlaster is your friend....
I found a LBS mechanic, in his 60's, who has a PW BB removal tool. He works one day a weeks for fun. He will lend it to me. Also, really nice community here in Santa Cruz.
Cheers!
Nubra
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10-26-20, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by polymorphself
Ok but show us the rest of the bike 
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10-26-20, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Nubra
The bike is in pieces, and I didn't take a pre-photo. Apparently, the bike builder is Albert Isentort, a legend in the Bay Area ( I am just learning this) He is still building bike frames in his 80's. If you want a photo of just the frame, I can offer that if you like?
10-26-20, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by noobinsf
Albert Eisentraut. Frame pic, yes please! We love Eisentrauts here.
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10-28-20, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by noobinsf
Albert Eisentraut. Frame pic, yes please! We love Eisentrauts here.
Cheers!
Nubra
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10-29-20, 01:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Nubra
I did some research on what Doug thought was an Eisentraut: it probably is NOT! Sigh, still a very nice bike, and custom made, but after comparing with Eisentraut's signature lugs on his website, this is not one of his.
Cheers!
Nubra
Cheers!
Nubra
I wouldn't rule him or one of his tribe out, he cast a very wide net, many variations over a very long timeline.
10-29-20, 09:25 AM
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The one photo you have posted looks like the bottom bracket shell used in the Eisentraut "Limited," a less expensive frame than the signature but still a very nice frameset. Please post more photos.
There is a small chance that I sold that frame to your friend's father. In the late seventies I worked in a Santa Cruz shop that sold Eisentraut frames.
Brent
There is a small chance that I sold that frame to your friend's father. In the late seventies I worked in a Santa Cruz shop that sold Eisentraut frames.
Brent
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10-29-20, 10:16 AM
#23
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Phil made two tools, I never got the one with lever arm attached. Great bottom bracket, I think they use the same tool since 1971.
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10-29-20, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Nubra
........ I used PowerBlaster for several years until I found Kroil, and I use that pretty exclusively now.......
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11-01-20, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by merziac
He went through many transitions, had many students, apprentices, disciples, etc. including Bruce Gordon and others, he did production and spec frames as well.
I wouldn't rule him or one of his tribe out, he cast a very wide net, many variations over a very long timeline.
I wouldn't rule him or one of his tribe out, he cast a very wide net, many variations over a very long timeline.
Originally Posted by obrentharris
The one photo you have posted looks like the bottom bracket shell used in the Eisentraut "Limited," a less expensive frame than the signature but still a very nice frameset. Please post more photos.
There is a small chance that I sold that frame to your friend's father. In the late seventies I worked in a Santa Cruz shop that sold Eisentraut frames.
Brent
There is a small chance that I sold that frame to your friend's father. In the late seventies I worked in a Santa Cruz shop that sold Eisentraut frames.
Brent
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