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1993 Koga-Miyata World Traveller project (66cm frame)

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1993 Koga-Miyata World Traveller project (66cm frame)

Old 03-19-21, 02:04 AM
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Originally Posted by cudak888
We definitely need group pictures of your Koga-Miyata collection so we can keep track of them, Jacco
Originally Posted by alexnagui
That's a great find for 45 euros! Like your idea of turning it into a gravel/offroad (touring) bike. Actually, I have a similar project in mind, so I am curious to see what you gonna do with it. How's the World Traveller doing, by the way?
Well, it's being worked on lately but with the weather around here I haven't been all that motivated to go outside and stand in the cold.

But the blocks are working. Not perfect yet but getting pretty close here. I can still tell using calipers but visibly it's barely even there anymore.
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Old 03-19-21, 11:11 AM
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Did some minor stripping and swapped some parts but looks like 40mm tyres fit!

If it wasn't for the rims on these wheels I could probably cobble something working together with the parts that I have.




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Old 03-20-21, 01:17 AM
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Wow! That is some considerable room in that frame! Rims look hot, even if they are for disc brakes.
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Old 03-28-21, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by RiddleOfSteel
Crazy to think that the standard weight of various Travellers is well north of 13kg. My '85 Trek 620 is just 1cm shorter with a slightly longer top tube and longer chainstays, and that came to 11kg on the nose. Granted, 32H non-touring wheelset (7400 hubs, MA2 rims, slender butted spokes) and "33mm" (30mm actually) Soma tires do a lot to help the weight issue vs. the 36H heavy, wide touring rims, 36x2 straight gauge spokes, and ~35mm anti-flat touring tires. I'd say there's an easy 1-2kg right there. The rear wheel lock, kickstand, and rear rack also add a good bit of weight. The Deore LX crankset has some weight over my triple-ized 7402 cranks, and that rear cassette likely outweighs my 10-speed cassette by 100g. So now we can get an idea of how the weight delta comes to be.

Looks like you have a lot of elbow grease and paint love to give on this one, Jacco. Super fun project. I'd be curious to see what the frame, fork, and headset (together) weigh. My 620 was a little north of 3.5kg, and I (at least) know that anything with Miyata in the name or build contract meant the frame was stouter than most. Even if this Traveller is a double FM-1 tubing (frame, fork) combination--the best!
Well, I was curious as well so I put it on my kitchen scale today. There were a handful of small bolts still attached but here are the main weights for the WorldTraveller at least. I will give the Traveller a disassembly later this week. I wouldn't be surprised if that one was lighter.
  • Fork: 1090 grams (2.4 lbs)
  • Frame: 2911 grams (6.42 lbs)
  • Total (including headset): 4001 grams (8.82 lbs)
Which, for a touring bike... is fairly average I guess. For comparison with some modern frames:
  • A medium (58cm effective seat tube)sized Velo Orange Pass Hunter disc brake frameset with uncut steerer is 3995 grams or (8.81 lbs).
  • ... this is where I would add some more info if I could actually find frame weights of some of the more popular touring bikes like the Surly LHT or Kona Sutra LTD.
Compare that to the 1996 Koga-Miyata SilverAce commuter bike and you can tell this one is certainly heavy duty.
Originally Posted by JaccoW
While I did leave the headset on, I think 2105 grams (4.6lbs) for the frame and 872 grams (1.9lbs) for the fork is a fairly good weight for a size 63cm frame.
That brings us to a respectable 2977 grams (6.56lbs) for the entire frame with headset.

Last edited by JaccoW; 03-28-21 at 05:37 PM.
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Old 03-28-21, 02:42 PM
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Well, the more I know, eh? Guess I've had a different view of upper-level touring bike frameset weights, having my three examples (so far) land in the 3500-3550g range for 63.5cm, 64.0cm, and 65.0cm sizes respectively. Another 100g or I'd think for a 66cm framset (ever the optimist here). How a Land Shark race bike of the same 66cm size had it's frame, fork, and headset come in at 2875g is still partially a mystery to me. Those same tubes in touring bike trim would net an incredibly light tourer a la '84/85Trek 720 (or my near-65.5cm Trek 510, which is a svelte 3210g even with a 60cm top tube and 44.5cm chain stays).
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Old 03-28-21, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by RiddleOfSteel
Well, the more I know, eh? Guess I've had a different view of upper-level touring bike frameset weights, having my three examples (so far) land in the 3500-3550g range for 63.5cm, 64.0cm, and 65.0cm sizes respectively. Another 100g or I'd think for a 66cm framset (ever the optimist here). How a Land Shark race bike of the same 66cm size had it's frame, fork, and headset come in at 2875g is still partially a mystery to me. Those same tubes in touring bike trim would net an incredibly light tourer a la '84/85Trek 720 (or my near-65.5cm Trek 510, which is a svelte 3210g even with a 60cm top tube and 44.5cm chain stays).
I expected it to be lighter as well but I didn't have much frame of reference. We will see what the Traveller does and for comparison I also have a second frameset of the Batavus Randonneur GL. I sort of expect it to be a little bit lighter but also wobblier.

The MTB (Koga-)Miyata's of the time were known for being built like a tank as well which led them to drop out of the market at some point. Great if you're hard on your gear. Not so great if you are being compared to "good enough" frames from competitors.
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Old 03-29-21, 10:18 AM
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Well @RiddleOfSteel , I'm pretty sure the Traveller is the exact same frame as the WorldTraveller. Weights including headset are 2918 gram for the frame and 1116 gram for the fork. 4036 grams total is a negligible difference.

Paint came out pretty nice after a clean, polish and wax but I forgot to set my white balance. So it's a bit paler than it really is.



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Old 03-29-21, 11:58 AM
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Wow, gold metallic flake in the black! Never would have known that from the catalogs or any other pictures I've seen of old Kogas. Would have imagined just a straight jet black, which would have looked plenty good in its own right.
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Old 03-29-21, 02:06 PM
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That Traveller polished up nicely!
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Old 03-29-21, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by RiddleOfSteel
Wow, gold metallic flake in the black! Never would have known that from the catalogs or any other pictures I've seen of old Kogas. Would have imagined just a straight jet black, which would have looked plenty good in its own right.
Originally Posted by alexnagui
That Traveller polished up nicely!
Exactly, pretty happy with it. On the one hand I want to polish the chipped off clear coat to make it blend in but that's not what this bike will be about.
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Old 03-31-21, 09:48 AM
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One step further in the Traveller project.

I received a pair of Empella froglegs, essentially Mafac cantilever clones that were big in the cyclocross scene until discs took over. Should work fairly well, might even be too close to the rim and needs all the cables.

Cleaned them and mounted and lubed everything on the bike. Tonight I plan to do some measurements on the hubs so I can start thinking about building new wheels. Probably using a pair of Ryde Zac-421 rims which are a little bit wider and should be stronger than the regular Zac-2000.

Other than that I am rummaging through my parts bin for a derailleur and crankset. The rear currently has a 11-32T 11-speed cassette. So far the candidates are:
  • Stronglight 107 triple. 52/42/32T right now but I would probably use it as a 43/32 double and add a bashguard.
  • Specialites TA Cyclotouriste. 48/32T but I would need shorter bolts as these are meant for a triple. Surprisingly enough these have regular pedal threading even though my other TA cranks are French threaded. Could be replaced with a 26T low but a 32 x 32 should be plenty low for most riding this bike will go on.
  • Shimano Deore LX FC-550 triple crankset. Not entirely sure what's on there right now but could easily serve as a very compact double with a bashguard. Will probably be very fitting with black chainrings an anodized black, blue or red bashguard. 110 / 74mm BCD which means I could go as low as 24T
  • Koga branded Sugino XD (?) triple. Looks like it could go even lower on the small chainring than the Shimano. Not sure what model it is and I would have to check the BCD.
Derailleurs:
  • Shimano Deore LX long cage. Originally came off the WorldTraveller. Should have more than enough chainwrap, not sure if this would work with 11-speed indexing or if I would need to go friction.
  • Campagnolo Record 10-speed mid/short cage? Probably not enough chainwrap but pretty cool with its carbon fibre body and titanium bolt. And there's the issue of Campagnolo derailleur with Shimano cassette but I know everything can be done.
  • EDIT: I will probably just buy a new Shimano Deore 11-speed and matching Microshift shifter.
Another idea is to have new model name stickers made but instead of Traveller it would say Graveller.
In the awesome cyan/magenta color this originally came in. Thoughts?

Anyway, pics!













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Old 03-31-21, 02:38 PM
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Sweet stuff. I'm putting that same Deore LX rear derailleur (and matching front) on a bike build (to be sold). It's the standard/initial Shimano SIS pull ratio of 1.7:1 vs. the new 11-speed ratio of 1.4:1 IIRC (which is a Campy one as well). Could work!
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Old 03-31-21, 04:22 PM
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Should be interesting. Pretty sold on the microshift shifters. I guess it wouldn't hurt to try at the very least. It would definitely save some money to re-use the rear derailleur.
Curious to see if the seat tube pod is a comfortable place to shift the front from. I mean if it's a 2x11 setup all it would to is swap between two chainrings and do some trimming. Though cabling it might be a problem.

The bottom bracket still feels pretty good in my hand so I might just give it a wipedown and reinstall it with some new grease on the threads.
I will need new levers though but the Tektro levers are fairly affordable in most places.

Did some measurements on the hubs to rebuild the wheels using different spokes and rims. Just putting it here for reference if anybody else ever plans on rebuilding Koga Beachracer wheels and so I don't forget.

Front wheel - Kstoerz link

Rear wheel - Kstoerz link


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Old 04-16-21, 02:48 AM
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When life gives you lemons... buy more bike stuff.
Lots of parts ordered to finish the Traveller and start generating ideas on what I want to do with the WorldTraveller.

It's going to be a 2x11 build with indexed/friction bar-end shifters, cantilevers and it's definitely not going to be as classy and understated as the WorldTraveller but that's the whole point.
And no fenders, which is a first for me.

Lots of parts are already on their way so expect some updates in the following week or so.

Current state of the bike:

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Old 04-19-21, 08:44 AM
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First parts are coming in. One rim and a saddle. I really like the Lepper Tourer, I have it on two bikes already, but unfortunately the company has gone bankrupt last year and won't be making them again.
That does mean they are relatively affordable at €40-€60 for a full grain thick leather saddle. Though this one has more of a suede look.

I did mean to buy two rims... but apparently I forgot to add the second one. So I just ordered the other one and added some small parts that I still needed.

The shoe is a lightweight Palladium Pampa Travel Light in a size 46EU / 11UK / 12US that weighs a mere 275 grams (0.606 lbs) for a single shoe. I just thought it looked cool and should be a great shoe to just stuff in my pack for when I'm not hiking or riding.


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Old 04-21-21, 03:10 AM
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Parts are dripping in to build some wheels so it was time to delace the Koga Beachracer wheel and clean and overhaul the hub.
Easy enough job and the Tenacious Oil definitely quieted up the hub. I think it's one of my favourite bicycle oils.

Some gold chain and a modern rear derailleur and perhaps I can even start riding this bike somewhere later next week.
The brass spoke head washers should look pretty nice on the blue hub with the black spokes.




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Old 04-21-21, 06:10 AM
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Goede dag, Jacco.

This looks like a great project -- and it's also my size! I have a question for you about the Lepper tourer saddle -- have you ridden the Brooks B17, and how does the Lepper Tourer compare?
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Old 04-21-21, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by JulesCW
Goede dag, Jacco.

This looks like a great project -- and it's also my size! I have a question for you about the Lepper tourer saddle -- have you ridden the Brooks B17, and how does the Lepper Tourer compare?
The only B17 that I have tried is the B17 Imperial with the cutout. This one is wider and uses thicker leather.
I believe I have made a comparison between the two a couple of years ago. It's in one of my posts, I could look it up for you. I don't ride the B17 Imperial anymore after the frame broke and the new rivets tended to destroy my trousers.
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Old 04-21-21, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by JaccoW
The only B17 that I have tried is the B17 Imperial with the cutout. This one is wider and uses thicker leather.
I believe I have made a comparison between the two a couple of years ago. It's in one of my posts, I could look it up for you. I don't ride the B17 Imperial anymore after the frame broke and the new rivets tended to destroy my trousers.

Great -- found the thread in which you detail your experiences; B17 cutout v not cutout Very helpful.
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Old 04-21-21, 04:26 PM
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Rear wheel ready, front wheel waiting for the rim. Personally, I like the detail of the brass spoke head washers.
I have no clue what Koga did with lacing up this hub originally as the wear marks were in such a way that neither side made any sense.

Also, I learned today that TRP stands for Tektro Racing Products. I never realized even though I have been going through both of their websites quite a bit lately.

Specs:
  • Weight:
    • Bare wheel: 1245 gram (2 lbs 11.9 oz)
    • With tyre/tape/cassette/QR: 2436 gram (5 lbs 5.9 oz)
  • Rim: Ryde Zac 421
  • Spokes: Sapim Race 2.0/1.8/2.0 in black
  • Spoke nipples: Sapim Polyax Brass
  • Rim tape: Schwalbe High Pressure Rim Tape
  • Inner tube: Schwalbe Extralight Tube SV18
  • Tyre: Schwalbe (Little) Big Ben 40-622
  • Cassette: 11-32 Shimano/SRAM?


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Old 04-22-21, 02:10 AM
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The rear wheel of my Deore DX / Matrix Titan Tour wheelset was a perplexing build. Taut spokes but the spokes still had large arcs like they weren't fully tensioned (but were). Spokes too short indicating a rebuild of some sort, but mint rims that would have been original to the Trek they were built for. 3/4 of the spokes on the rear were of one length, the other 1/4 were just 1mm longer. Too much alcohol and not enough brain power in that operation.... [I fixed it with all new spokes and nipples and the world was again right for a moment]
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Old 04-23-21, 09:07 AM
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And our first fit. Tonight I plan to build the front wheel and then I will have to wait for the rest of the parts to arrive.
I do have to take another look at the chainline though. I reused the bottom bracket that came off the original Shimano triple but the Specialites TA is narrower than most regular chainrings. Right now there is some audible "grinding" in the Big/Small combo and I can tell the chain is at a fairly steep angle. Sounds like I might need a wider bottom bracket here.


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Old 04-24-21, 08:30 AM
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And the front wheel done as well.

As it stands here the bike weighs exactly 13Kg (28.6 lbs) but that includes the frame lock, which adds about 750 grams (1.65 lbs).
With the brake levers, shifters, cables and 28T inner chainring I expect it to end up at around 14 kg (30.85 lbs) give or take a bit. Which is probably lighter than most of my bikes so far.

If I wanted to lighten it I should probably use lighter tyres than the Schwalbe Little Big Ben's which weigh 695 grams (1.53 lbs) a piece or a lighter rim but at 1075 grams (2.37 lbs) for the wheel excluding the tyres the rest is fairly lightweight.

As for the WorldTraveller, I was pointed towards the Crust Disc Romanceur fork which is an intriguing 1" headset, disc specific fork with internal dynamo cable routing which could probably work, though it would likely bring the bring the trail down from a 55mm trail with the current fork to a very low 23mm trail.
Oh, and shipping is currently $177 + import taxes so that's not an option for now.





Last edited by JaccoW; 04-24-21 at 01:49 PM.
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Old 04-24-21, 11:56 AM
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I like how this is shaping up!
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Old 05-01-21, 09:17 AM
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Some more parts today. Since I don't know when the bar-ends will arrive I rummaged through my parts bin to see if I had any downtube shifters left. The Sachs-Hurett downtube shifters I dug up are able to shift the 11-speed cassette albeit at a 200 degree angle.

The front shifter seems to be an issue though as I was planning on installing a shorter bottom bracket and it won't move inwards far enough right now, even with both screws set loose. At the same time the crank is already hitting the chain in the 48 x 11 combination so that's something to look for as well.
Oh, and yeah the 11-speed chain drops in between the two chainrings when downshifting. Nothing that can't be fixed with some slightly thinner rings in between the two chainrings but it's still annoying.

Seems like I have some thinking and measuring to do.
Then again, it's better I do it on this semi-budget bike than if I was using expensive brand new parts.




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