Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Campagnolo square taper BB ?

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Campagnolo square taper BB ?

Old 10-25-20, 08:01 AM
  #1  
jamesdak 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Utah
Posts: 6,452

Bikes: Too many to keep this current.

Mentioned: 116 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1548 Post(s)
Liked 838 Times in 450 Posts
Campagnolo square taper BB ?

So, I've now got two very nice Campagnolo silver groupsets for use but both have British square taper bottom brackets. I thought I had an Italian in my stash but can't seem to find it.

From my understanding both the 9 speed chorus and 10 speed record take 102mm spindle length. Not seeing these available at any on my usual sources.

Curious about one thing and my googling didn't find an answer last night. Can I use the cartridge off one of these and just replace the "cup" ends if I can find those?

Anyone know of a quality replacement brand that might work?
__________________
Steel is real...and comfy.
jamesdak is offline  
Old 10-25-20, 08:09 AM
  #2  
Bianchigirll 
Bianchi Goddess
 
Bianchigirll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Shady Pines Retirement Fort Wayne, In
Posts: 27,328

Bikes: Too many to list here check my signature.

Mentioned: 142 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1940 Post(s)
Liked 721 Times in 455 Posts
I am not sure about removing the cups.

Look on Ebay for Omni Racing BBs, I think I used one of these on a CampI and you might also look at Miche BBs.
__________________
Bianchis '90 Proto, '90 Campione del Fausto Giamondi Specialisma Italiano Mundo, '91 Boarala 'cross, '93 Project 3, '86 Volpe, '97 Ti Megatube, '93 Reparto Corse SBX

Others but still loved; '80 Batavus Professional, '87 Cornelo, '?? Jane Doe (still on the drawing board), '90ish Haro Escape SLX Bertoni "Speckled Trout"
Bianchigirll is offline  
Old 10-25-20, 09:15 AM
  #3  
conspiratemus1
Used to be Conspiratemus
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Hamilton ON Canada
Posts: 1,494
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 285 Post(s)
Liked 235 Times in 156 Posts
Originally Posted by Bianchigirll View Post
I am not sure about removing the cups. . .
There is a single Record right cup on eBay right now, — not mine, honest! — so presumably they can be removed. But mine looks driven on pretty tight. To find 2 I think you’d look a long time.
conspiratemus1 is offline  
Old 10-25-20, 09:24 AM
  #4  
gearbasher
Senior Member
 
gearbasher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Sitting on my butt in front of a computer
Posts: 960
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 212 Post(s)
Liked 83 Times in 57 Posts
Excel has Italian ones in stock.

https://www.excelsports.com/main.asp...iABEgKG0_D_BwE
gearbasher is offline  
Likes For gearbasher:
Old 10-25-20, 10:09 AM
  #5  
jiangshi
OFG in Exile
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,756
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 428 Post(s)
Liked 146 Times in 99 Posts
The cups are interchangeable between Italian and British.
jiangshi is offline  
Old 10-25-20, 11:10 AM
  #6  
SJX426 
Senior Member
 
SJX426's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fredericksburg, Va
Posts: 7,705

Bikes: '73 Bottecchia Giro d'Italia, '83 Colnago Superissimo, '84 Trek 610, '84 Trek 760, '88 Pinarello Veneto, '88 De Rosa Pro, '90 De Rosa Professional, '91 Pinarello Montello, '94 Burley Duet, 97 Specialized RockHopper, 2010 Langster, Tern Link D8

Mentioned: 55 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 970 Post(s)
Liked 608 Times in 386 Posts
Originally Posted by jamesdak View Post
So, I've now got two very nice Campagnolo silver groupsets for use but both have British square taper bottom brackets. I thought I had an Italian in my stash but can't seem to find it.

From my understanding both the 9 speed chorus and 10 speed record take 102mm spindle length. Not seeing these available at any on my usual sources.
Length could be the same or different depending on which crank you have. If the Chorus and Record crank look the same then yes, otherwise no.

Yes - 102:
P1030168 on Flickr

No:
P1030056 on Flickr
__________________
Bikes don't stand alone. They are two tired.
SJX426 is offline  
Old 10-25-20, 06:23 PM
  #7  
jamesdak 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Utah
Posts: 6,452

Bikes: Too many to keep this current.

Mentioned: 116 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1548 Post(s)
Liked 838 Times in 450 Posts
Originally Posted by gearbasher View Post
Ahhhh, one place I didn't think to check. Everyone else I hit up shows them as out of stock. Thanks!
__________________
Steel is real...and comfy.

Last edited by jamesdak; 10-25-20 at 06:31 PM.
jamesdak is offline  
Old 10-25-20, 06:31 PM
  #8  
jamesdak 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Utah
Posts: 6,452

Bikes: Too many to keep this current.

Mentioned: 116 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1548 Post(s)
Liked 838 Times in 450 Posts
Originally Posted by conspiratemus1 View Post

Centaur BBs are still a retail stock item in bike shops and “look” like Record and Chorus when installed as they use the same tool. I had to wait a while before my barely used Chorus came up on eBay. NIB Records list for hundreds of dollars. Who’s buying??
Just for the sake of not leading someone down the wrong path. Record and Chorus use a 102mm spindle. Centaur comes in 111 or 115 sized spindles, not the same.
__________________
Steel is real...and comfy.
jamesdak is offline  
Likes For jamesdak:
Old 10-25-20, 06:50 PM
  #9  
conspiratemus1
Used to be Conspiratemus
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Hamilton ON Canada
Posts: 1,494
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 285 Post(s)
Liked 235 Times in 156 Posts
Originally Posted by jamesdak View Post
Just for the sake of not leading someone down the wrong path. Record and Chorus use a 102mm spindle. Centaur comes in 111 or 115 sized spindles, not the same.
Crap, you’re right. I was reading the wrong listing at La Bicicletta. My apologies. So much for eye-witness testimony.
Since you’ve found what you need, i’m just deleting my garden-path-leading posts.
conspiratemus1 is offline  
Old 10-26-20, 01:01 AM
  #10  
trainman999
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 336

Bikes: 83 Schwinn Superior, 86 Paramount,86 Madison,87 Cimeron,86 Nishiki Linear

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 155 Post(s)
Liked 70 Times in 43 Posts
jamesdac The 3 bearing Record, Chorus, and Centaur cups are interchaangable bttween English and Italion and each other. There are Chorus left and right Italion cups on Ebay right now. https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Campagn...QAAOSwa6heO7XT
trainman999 is offline  
Old 10-26-20, 07:24 AM
  #11  
jamesdak 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Utah
Posts: 6,452

Bikes: Too many to keep this current.

Mentioned: 116 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1548 Post(s)
Liked 838 Times in 450 Posts
Originally Posted by trainman999 View Post
jamesdac The 3 bearing Record, Chorus, and Centaur cups are interchaangable bttween English and Italion and each other. There are Chorus left and right Italion cups on Ebay right now. https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Campagn...QAAOSwa6heO7XT
Oh thanks!! So busy working on other bikes yesterday that I never got back to researching this. You rock!
__________________
Steel is real...and comfy.
jamesdak is offline  
Old 10-26-20, 02:28 PM
  #12  
Dave Mayer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,028
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 771 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 125 Times in 84 Posts
Originally Posted by trainman999 View Post
jamesdac The 3 bearing Record, Chorus, and Centaur cups are interchaangable bttween English and Italion and each other. There are Chorus left and right Italion cups on Ebay right now. https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Campagn...QAAOSwa6heO7XT
Not quite. Chorus and Record cups are interchangeable, with the English and Italian cups are swappable as well.

However: Centaur cups do NOT fit the Chorus and Record cores and vice-versa.

I have taken all of these BBs apart, down to the (replaceable) cartridge bearings.
Dave Mayer is offline  
Likes For Dave Mayer:
Old 10-27-20, 12:17 PM
  #13  
trainman999
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 336

Bikes: 83 Schwinn Superior, 86 Paramount,86 Madison,87 Cimeron,86 Nishiki Linear

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 155 Post(s)
Liked 70 Times in 43 Posts
Dave Mayer, Interesting that Campagnolo would make 3 bearing Centaur cores that use the same bearings that Record and Chorus and cups that can be interchanges among them, and cores that don't. The pictured Record 111 ,Chorus 111, and Centar 115.5 BB all have the same bering numbers in them. The cups are all English, Record and Chorus mesure 68 but the Centaur mesures 70 mm. Switch the cups around and cores still mesure 68 and 70. I suspect the Centaur core is for Italian and someone put english cups on it. What is different on the ones you had?



r
trainman999 is offline  
Old 10-27-20, 01:00 PM
  #14  
Road Fan
Senior Member
 
Road Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 15,340

Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8

Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1231 Post(s)
Liked 210 Times in 179 Posts
Originally Posted by jamesdak View Post
So, I've now got two very nice Campagnolo silver groupsets for use but both have British square taper bottom brackets. I thought I had an Italian in my stash but can't seem to find it.

From my understanding both the 9 speed chorus and 10 speed record take 102mm spindle length. Not seeing these available at any on my usual sources.

Curious about one thing and my googling didn't find an answer last night. Can I use the cartridge off one of these and just replace the "cup" ends if I can find those?

Anyone know of a quality replacement brand that might work?
You can't make a 110 for example 8mm shorter across the spindle by changing the end cup. You need a BB with a 102 mm spindle.
Road Fan is offline  
Old 10-27-20, 01:39 PM
  #15  
Dave Mayer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,028
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 771 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 125 Times in 84 Posts
Originally Posted by trainman999 View Post
Dave Mayer, Interesting that Campagnolo would make 3 bearing Centaur cores that use the same bearings that Record and Chorus and cups that can be interchanges among them, and cores that don't. The pictured Record 111 ,Chorus 111, and Centar 115.5 BB all have the same bering numbers in them. The cups are all English, Record and Chorus mesure 68 but the Centaur mesures 70 mm. Switch the cups around and cores still mesure 68 and 70. I suspect the Centaur core is for Italian and someone put english cups on it. What is different on the ones you had?
r
You had me worried to the point where I checked my stash. I have about 15 Campy cartridge BB's in stock including Record, Chorus and Centaur, in Italian and English variants.

So the core of the Record/Chorus BBs has an outside dimension of 48mm. The centaur units measure 60mm. See pic. I used all Italian for the comparison, but of course, the cores of the units are the same whether English or Italian. The units I compared had 102mm spindles for the Record/Chorus, and 111mm for Centaur. The 115mm Centaur BB is another story; it has a longer spindle. Spindle length is irrelevant here. Finally, when you put the cups on the cores, the overall length where the BB screws into the frame has to be 70mm.

But note the length of the cores - 12mm larger for the Centaur unit. Which means the cups on this unit have to be thinner. When I put Centaur cups on a Chorus core, the overall measured width was 60mm - too skinny for use. Conversely, when I put Chorus cups on a Centaur core, the width was over 80mm. So the problem was not the fit of the cups, but the thickness.

In any case, these BBs are the best square taper units ever made. All bearings can be replaced. Excellent seals. Lightweight. So why did the industry move to oversized spindles and outboard cups? Who knows.

Dave Mayer is offline  
Old 10-27-20, 05:55 PM
  #16  
trainman999
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 336

Bikes: 83 Schwinn Superior, 86 Paramount,86 Madison,87 Cimeron,86 Nishiki Linear

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 155 Post(s)
Liked 70 Times in 43 Posts
Dave Mayer do you have an English Centaur in your stash? if yes is does it mesure 68 or 70mm? If 68 is the core 58mm like 111 Record and Chorus cores or 60mm? My Centaur,english cups, 60mm core, overall 70mm. I am guessing the cores are different on Centaur's for Italian and English
trainman999 is offline  
Old 10-28-20, 05:05 PM
  #17  
jamesdak 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Utah
Posts: 6,452

Bikes: Too many to keep this current.

Mentioned: 116 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1548 Post(s)
Liked 838 Times in 450 Posts
Originally Posted by gearbasher View Post
Seems accurate, I did order one and it is in transit. Thanks!
__________________
Steel is real...and comfy.
jamesdak is offline  
Old 10-28-20, 05:07 PM
  #18  
jamesdak 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Utah
Posts: 6,452

Bikes: Too many to keep this current.

Mentioned: 116 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1548 Post(s)
Liked 838 Times in 450 Posts
trainman999 - Your tip did pay off. I got both cups in today! I appreciate it.
__________________
Steel is real...and comfy.
jamesdak is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.