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-   -   1" threaded headset woes (https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/1216738-1-threaded-headset-woes.html)

rousseau 11-03-20 03:15 PM

1" threaded headset woes
 
I replaced the scored Miche headset on a new-to-me 1998 Peugeot Competition CP20 frame with a Campagnolo Record headset, and now that I've got the bike built up the steering is stiff and lurching when I get to the sweet spot of tightness on the threaded race. Actually, it keeps lurching when I purposely loosen the race, as well.

Any idea what this could be? I've got the ball retainers on properly (double checked that), so that's not it. I lathered the top of the balls with grease, but not the underside of the retainer. That wouldn't be the reason, would it?

https://i.imgur.com/LmZgNvG.jpg

nlerner 11-03-20 04:40 PM

Any chance you reversed top and bottom cups?

repechage 11-03-20 04:58 PM

that is my suspicion too.
Invert the fork, assemble and test.
Much easier than knocking them out.
Be sure to check the cups and crown race for indentations.

Seanaus 11-03-20 05:12 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 21773971)
Any chance you reversed top and bottom cups?

Since the writing on the bottom cup that's been fitted to the top is upside down in the photo, I'd say you're on the money there.

rousseau 11-03-20 06:39 PM

What the...there's an order to the cups? I had no idea! I will switch them around and report back.

Andy_K 11-03-20 06:49 PM

People used to install Chris King headsets upside down on purpose. I have no idea why. Probably just because they could. For most headsets it won't work.

Prowler 11-04-20 05:05 AM


Originally Posted by Seanaus (Post 21774020)
Since the writing on the bottom cup that's been fitted to the top is upside down in the photo, I'd say you're on the money there.

As a good friend used to say "I only had one day of schoolin and that day was singin, so you'll have explain this to me real slow."

Way out here in the woods, I've only seen HS's where the top press-fit in the tube is a cone/race and the bottom is a cup. Bottom cone/race fits onto the fork crown and top cup threads onto the steerer. NO way to reverse them. But are you folks saying there are headsets where both upper and lower cups are press fit into the head tube? So the top cone is threaded onto the steerer. WHY, fear g'sake? Seems life a fine way to get water into the top bearing assembly then, inevitably, the lower.

Seanaus 11-04-20 06:01 AM

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f01faebd44.jpg

Dfrost 11-04-20 04:03 PM


Originally Posted by Prowler (Post 21774535)
As a good friend used to say "I only had one day of schoolin and that day was singin, so you'll have explain this to me real slow."

Way out here in the woods, I've only seen HS's where the top press-fit in the tube is a cone/race and the bottom is a cup. Bottom cone/race fits onto the fork crown and top cup threads onto the steerer. NO way to reverse them. But are you folks saying there are headsets where both upper and lower cups are press fit into the head tube? So the top cone is threaded onto the steerer. WHY, fear g'sake? Seems life a fine way to get water into the top bearing assembly then, inevitably, the lower.

In rebuilding many bikes, seems that more headsets have both cups press-fit into headtube, but Iíve seen the reverse for the upper pair - cone in headtube and cup threaded on the steerer. Now that I think about it, thatís the arrangement in the lovely Stronglight A9 and other roller bearing HSís. The water risk mentioned with the upper pressed in cup has never been a problem because the upper cone often has an ďover cupĒ creating a labyrinth seal or similar.

Chombi1 11-04-20 04:43 PM

One way to find out you have the cups switched is to see if you can read the engraved words and/or numbers on the cups,.....without turning your head upside-down.......:rolleyes::D

rousseau 11-04-20 07:25 PM

Having poked the cups out and reversed them, I can confirm that that was indeed the problem. The bike now rides just fine.

It's terrific having this wonderful resource to make up for the (many) gaps in my wrenching knowledge!

mortona42 11-11-20 02:51 PM

Hi, I have a 1" Chris King GripNut with a bit of play when I rock forward and back, even if it's tightened to the point of stiffness while turning. I flipped the fork around to test the cups, but had the same issue. The adjusting ring that screws down above the top cup touches the edges of the top cup before touching the angular bearings on the inside.

The instructions say there will be a little tightness from the dust caps at first, but I think it's contacting more than that. If I tighten the lock nut, will that flare out the thread collet to press against the bearings? I'm pretty sure it's just the adjusting ring that should contact it, but is a little bit too short.

I think to make this work, I would need to sand down one of the cups for more clearance, so the adjusting ring can screw down on the bearing without rubbing the top cup. Does any of this make sense?

mortona42 11-11-20 05:02 PM

Alright.. I have a mixed headset. The cups are from an older no-logo version and the adjusting ring broke and was replaced with a newer GripNut with collet - the old one is just an adjusting ring and lock ring. It incompatibility is in the angled protrusion that contacts the bearings - it's longer on the old one.

I bought these parts used and the seller thought they would work. I don't see any replacement parts for an old chris king like this one.

I have a Tange Seiki falcon 250c - the adjusting ring looks around the same size as the new Chris King one. I am looking at pics of a FSA Duron, and all these parts look very similar to this headset. Maybe this is really what I have and the only Chris King part is the replacement piece and it's not compatible?

I have pics of all this, but not enough posts yet to upload. Was there ever a Chris King 1" headset with absolutely no logos/markings on it?

mortona42 11-11-20 05:39 PM

I found a listing on Bike Recyclery for a vintage Chris King 1" 2Nut that looks exactly the same, so scratch the FSA Duron question. Looks like my cups are the vintage 2Nut and the top is for GripNut.

At this point... If I can repair or replace the adjusting ring, I'd have a super rare headset on my hands. Until then I have a broken headset and a few parts for a new one...


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