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The 5 Vis appreciation thread

Old 06-14-23, 02:06 PM
  #176  
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Originally Posted by alexnagui
I've made a few CNC chainrings for 50.4bcd cranks lately. Mainly replicas of old French chainrings which are impossible to find these days. I am planning to make a few more designs. All the hardware is CNC made from stainless steel btw.
Had you considered the round-hole Lambert-style chainring? I personally like the aesthetic.


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Old 06-14-23, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by alexnagui
Lovely! So, will you be making the bikes to go with them next?
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Old 06-14-23, 05:22 PM
  #178  
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Originally Posted by alexnagui
I was able to find a set of Simplex Touriste riveted chainrings made from steel on eBay last year. And some NOS Simplex chainring bolts. That's how I was able to replicate the original design as close as possible.
The Cyclo Rosa and the Stronglight are "copied" from the originals as well.
-----

thanks very much for the reply

two questions regarding Juy chainwheels:

a) were three plateau sets of the Touriste model offered? do not recall ever seeing any but it seems logical that they would have been.

b) do you know what models were produced in the Juy facility in Italy during the relatively brief period in which it was in operation? the only model can recall are the six-bolt fellas for employment with Y-adaptors on three-arm chainsets.


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Old 06-15-23, 02:19 AM
  #179  
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Originally Posted by alexnagui
I've made a few CNC chainrings for 50.4bcd cranks lately. Mainly replicas of old French chainrings which are impossible to find these days. I am planning to make a few more designs. All the hardware is CNC made from stainless steel btw.
I saw that on Instagram, that diamond is a beauty!
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Old 06-15-23, 02:27 AM
  #180  
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I found a 48-38-28 triple complete with french thread Spidel pedals in the french classifieds for my 1950s gravel bike build I'm currently completing.
I'm surprised how well it shifts with a 9-speed chain and a cheap Campa 980 derailleur.

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Old 06-16-23, 07:17 AM
  #181  
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Originally Posted by tiger1964
Had you considered the round-hole Lambert-style chainring? I personally like the aesthetic.


Those chainrings are still out there, I believe. So there is no point in replicating them. I might do something similar based on this design but not a 100% copy.
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Old 06-16-23, 07:21 AM
  #182  
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Originally Posted by non-fixie
Lovely! So, will you be making the bikes to go with them next?
That would be nice. If I only had time. I would love to learn framebuilding. I'll be making a few more CNC parts, maybe cranks at some point.
But you're right, these chainrings deserve nice bikes attached to them
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Old 06-16-23, 07:28 AM
  #183  
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Originally Posted by alexnagui
Those chainrings are still out there, I believe.
Fair enough. I did check eBay just now with no results at the moment; but of course there might be other sources.

Originally Posted by alexnagui
I might do something similar based on this design but not a 100% copy.
Now that would be neat. Might look great in a "1x" variation for single-chainring applications, without the holes needed to mount an inner chainring.
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Old 06-16-23, 07:37 AM
  #184  
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Originally Posted by juvela
-----

thanks very much for the reply

two questions regarding Juy chainwheels:

a) were three plateau sets of the Touriste model offered? do not recall ever seeing any but it seems logical that they would have been.

b) do you know what models were produced in the Juy facility in Italy during the relatively brief period in which it was in operation? the only model can recall are the six-bolt fellas for employment with Y-adaptors on three-arm chainsets.
-----
Regarding your first question. Do you mean three different standard types/combinations of rings? Or do you mean triples? If you browse through Simplex catalogues, you can see what they offered, I think those were only doubles. You would need different hardware for a triple set. However, I have seen triple Simplex Touriste replicas made by some Japanese enthusiasts.



I don't think I can answer your second question.
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Old 06-16-23, 07:49 AM
  #185  
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-----

thanks so much for your reply

wrt question a) yes meant triple chainwheel sets

wrt question b) have never been able to find information regarding the Juy of Italy operation


-----
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Old 06-16-23, 08:48 AM
  #186  
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Nervar 631 with a modern TA 44T outer, vintage Sugino 28T inner, Stronglight bolts, on a Shimano BB. SRAM Rival 10s shifters moving a 9s Shimano FD.

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Old 06-16-23, 09:25 AM
  #187  
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Originally Posted by alexnagui
Those chainrings are still out there, I believe. So there is no point in replicating them. I might do something similar based on this design but not a 100% copy.
maybe something with more holes in it?
I'm sure that someone could turn the pedals... assuming that there's a steep downhill nearby.



Steve in Peoria
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Old 06-16-23, 09:26 AM
  #188  
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Sorry if this has been covered already, but I'm currently trying to fit a pair of TA Pro 5 vis to my Eisentraut, and these really don't want to play well with modern BBs where the spindle is symmetrical between the DS and non-DS. The non-drive side arm is sticking out too far, while the driveside is a little too close to the chainstay. This is on a 115mm JIS spindle. I've found threads on BF and elsewhere regarding spindle type (JIS, proprietary, etc) as well as recommended length (people say ca. 118mm), but nothing really on recommended solutions for bottom brackets. Is everyone here using vintage Stronglight BBs with asymmetric spindles, and, if so, is it possible to pinpoint a specific model or length that works best? Are there any modern sealed BBs that work here?

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Old 06-16-23, 11:39 AM
  #189  
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Originally Posted by heidelbergensis
Sorry if this has been covered already, but I'm currently trying to fit a pair of Pro 5 vis to my Eisentraut, and these really don't want to play well with modern BBs where the spindle is symmetrical between the DS and non-DS. The non-drive side arm is sticking out too far, while the driveside is a little too close to the chainstay. This is on the 115mm JIS spindle. I've found threads on BF and elsewhere regarding spindle type (JIS, proprietary, etc) as well as recommended length (people say ca. 118mm), but nothing really on recommended solutions for bottom brackets. Is everyone here using vintage Stronglight BBs with asymmetric spindles, and, if so, is it possible to pinpoint a specific model or length that works best? Are there any modern sealed BBs that work here?
-----

?

by "Pro 5 vis" are you referring to Sugino Pro Dynamic or to T.A. Professional?

the two plateau spindle for T.A. is the number 344

the two plateau for Sugino is the MC 68 (or MC 70)


-----
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Old 06-16-23, 12:07 PM
  #190  
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Originally Posted by alexnagui

My own take on Herse Clover style inspired by early Verot chainrings
Those are just so damn cool looking.... I'm stuck now between a set of those, or some new panniers. Maybe I need to buy some scratch-off tickets......
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Old 06-16-23, 12:54 PM
  #191  
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juvela I'm referring to the TA 'Pro 5 Vis' crankset, so the Pro(fessional).
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Old 06-16-23, 01:56 PM
  #192  
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Originally Posted by heidelbergensis
Sorry if this has been covered already, but I'm currently trying to fit a pair of TA Pro 5 vis to my Eisentraut, and these really don't want to play well with modern BBs where the spindle is symmetrical between the DS and non-DS. The non-drive side arm is sticking out too far, while the driveside is a little too close to the chainstay. This is on a 115mm JIS spindle. I've found threads on BF and elsewhere regarding spindle type (JIS, proprietary, etc) as well as recommended length (people say ca. 118mm), but nothing really on recommended solutions for bottom brackets. Is everyone here using vintage Stronglight BBs with asymmetric spindles, and, if so, is it possible to pinpoint a specific model or length that works best? Are there any modern sealed BBs that work here?
I've used 118mm cartridge BBs, both V-O and Shimano, with success. I'm also lucky to have a stash of Phil Wood BBs, which allow for lots of adjustability on the drive side.
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Old 06-17-23, 07:31 AM
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Hey @nlerner I currently have a V-O 115mm and a Shimano 118mm cartridge BB, and both have the issue of rendering the crank arms asymmetrically spaced on either side (non-DS sticking out further than DS) due to each spindle end being the same length. Is this something that those who use these cranksets with modern BBs just deal with?
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Old 06-17-23, 09:10 AM
  #194  
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Originally Posted by heidelbergensis
Hey @nlerner I currently have a V-O 115mm and a Shimano 118mm cartridge BB, and both have the issue of rendering the crank arms asymmetrically spaced on either side (non-DS sticking out further than DS) due to each spindle end being the same length. Is this something that those who use these cranksets with modern BBs just deal with?
​​​​​​I just use symmetrical bbs but you can put spacers on either side.
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Old 06-17-23, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by heidelbergensis
Hey @nlerner I currently have a V-O 115mm and a Shimano 118mm cartridge BB, and both have the issue of rendering the crank arms asymmetrically spaced on either side (non-DS sticking out further than DS) due to each spindle end being the same length. Is this something that those who use these cranksets with modern BBs just deal with?
Originally Posted by 52telecaster
​​​​​​I just use symmetrical bbs but you can put spacers on either side.
Yup, some number of 1mm spacers on the DS often solve the problem.
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Old 06-17-23, 08:26 PM
  #196  
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Originally Posted by alexnagui;22925212[img
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikeforums.net-vbulletin/363x400/e53bce5b_99f3_4c3e_a3c4_299fb304c030_jpeg_abd955c15861c119de53b6521ae91c0473497f33.jpg[/img]
]Those chainrings are still out there, I believe. So there is no point in replicating them. I might do something similar based on this design but not a 100% copy.
They are "still out there," but only in 52T tooth count.
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Old 06-18-23, 04:21 AM
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I'm guessing the answer will be "trial and error", but is there an 'easy' way to narrow down the needed BB spindle length? Like, say, info* on a 49D calls for an asymmetric 118.5mm (double) or 123.5mm (triple) spindle- is one likely to have success with a symmetrical spindle of the same length with spacer(s) to get things lined up properly? Or does one have to add a couple mm to the spindle length when going from asymmetrical to symmetrical or something?

*cross-ref'd from info for a TA Cyclotouriste on Sheldon Brown- not confirmed as to whether this is actually accurate for a 49D....
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Old 06-18-23, 04:54 AM
  #198  
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Originally Posted by ehcoplex
I'm guessing the answer will be "trial and error", but is there an 'easy' way to narrow down the needed BB spindle length? Like, say, info* on a 49D calls for an asymmetric 118.5mm (double) or 123.5mm (triple) spindle- is one likely to have success with a symmetrical spindle of the same length with spacer(s) to get things lined up properly? Or does one have to add a couple mm to the spindle length when going from asymmetrical to symmetrical or something?

*cross-ref'd from info for a TA Cyclotouriste on Sheldon Brown- not confirmed as to whether this is actually accurate for a 49D....
Dunno if this helps, but here is a '70s vintage chart of Stronglight spindle lengths:


It gives two choices for double, and two for triple, with letters after the length — anyone know what those mean?
Double is 118.5 "C" or 120.5 "R"
Triple is 123 "S" or 125.5 "T"

I have generally used the narrow of those two, i.e. 118.5 and 123 respectively.
Those choices are 2 mm (double) and 6.5 mm (triple) longer on the right than the left.

Using triple as my example, to use a symmetric 123, you'd need 3.25 mm of spacer on the right (fixed) cup. But that assumes your spindle has a taper that matches Stronglight's exactly, which is unlikely. So your crank may pull on further or less far, depending on your actual spindle taper, so some trial and error is to be expected.

Some people (probably a lot of folks here) memorize what happens when, say, you put a Campy crank on a Stronglight spindle or vice-versa, but I have never even tried to keep that knowledge onboard, I just try it and see. Given that actual parts you have in hand seldom match the catalog spec exactly anyway, trial fitting is the rule. Often enough, it needs a little adjustment even when you're not mixing brands/models/eras. Yes that's frustrating when you have to buy a spindle to try it, which is why I have such a heavy bin of vintage spindles. That gives me the luxury of never having to use a modern symmetric spindle in a vintage bike. The correct asymmetric spindles come available on ebay practically all the time, so that's pretty do-able if you want.

Of course if you want a more modern spindle or cartridge BB in your bike then I'm not gonna fight you over it, but you'll lose points at a concours!
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Old 06-18-23, 10:26 AM
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My approach to crank/bb compatibility is to always match crank/spindle-bb/era/model/number of rings. I know other combinations can work, but I just match it up. Then again, I confess to a certain amount of OCD with respect to matching parts and/or which parts can be mixed. In any event, I have always found the old TA bb parts to be beautifully made from very nice and durable materials. I always use loose balls with TA, and you can get them adjusted to turn with such a small amount of friction. It is probably purely psychological, but I think that the TA Tevano parts may have been machined to an even higher tolerance than the standard branded ones. The spindle numbers are the same to ease in searching for the right parts. As a pure bonus, not a lot of people look for Tevano so you may even be able to find them at a bargain…The original numbers produced were much lower than the standard units, though….
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Old 06-18-23, 08:57 PM
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The way I deal with getting a cartridge bb to fit an ancient crank is to take the drive side crank to my bike shop and try hand fitting it on each of the four or five sizes of Shimano bbs in stock. It's pretty clear which one will work pretty quickly. Plus you can buy a spacer or two if needed. Definitely not concourse level but it always seems to work for me.
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