Suntour Derailleurs?
11-30-20, 09:21 PM
#51
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I end up first discarding the b-tension screw, and if the freewheel is only 28t then I proceed to grind aluminum off of the b-tension screw lug until the derailer swings sufficiently forward to give crisp shifting by way of a tighter chain gap.
In fairness though, these derailers were designed when the much-stiffer old bushing chains were in use, when a large chain gap would have been much less of a problem in terms of shifting response. And here I am using narrower, more-flexible HG chain, with predictable consequence.
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11-30-20, 09:40 PM
#52
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....
In fairness though, these derailers were designed when the much-stiffer old bushing chains were in use, when a large chain gap would have been much less of a problem in terms of shifting response. And here I am using narrower, more-flexible HG chain, with predictable consequence.
In fairness though, these derailers were designed when the much-stiffer old bushing chains were in use, when a large chain gap would have been much less of a problem in terms of shifting response. And here I am using narrower, more-flexible HG chain, with predictable consequence.
I took some photos a while back to illustrate the difference between the stiffness of an old 5 speed chain with bushings, versus a Sachs PC48 8 speed bushingless chain.
In the photos below, I just moved the shift lever forward, taking the tension off of the cable, allowing the derailleur spring to move the pulleys as far to the right as the chain flex would allow.
here's the 5 speed chain with bushings (the original chain on this 1974 Raleigh)...
and here's a Sachs 8 speed bushingless chain.....
It does make a difference.
However, the 8 speed chain also has features in the shape of the side plates that help it pick up teeth, and it's quite a bit quieter when shifting.
Steve in Peoria
11-30-20, 11:10 PM
#53
elcraft
Name:
W. Edwards Deming - Wiki
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_DemingWilliam Edwards Deming (October 14, 1900 – December 20, 1993) was an American engineer, statistician, professor, author, lecturer, and management consultant. Educated initially as an electrical engineer and later specializing in mathematical physics, he helped develop the sampling techniques still used by the U.S. Department of the Census and the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
W. Edwards Deming
Born October 14, 1900
Sioux City, Iowa Died December 20, 1993 (aged 93)
Washington, D.C. Alma mater University of Wyoming BS
University of Colorado MS
Yale University PhD Scientific career Fields Statistician Influences Walter A. ShewhartIn his book The New Economics for Industry, Government, and Education[1] Deming championed the work of Walter Shewhart, including statistical process control, operational definitions, and what Deming called the "Shewhart Cycle,"[2] which had evolved into Plan-Do-check-Act (PDCA). Deming is best known for his work in Japan after WWII, particularly his work with the leaders of Japanese industry. That work began in July and August 1950, in Tokyo and at the Hakone Convention Center,[3] when Deming delivered speeches on what he called "Statistical Product Quality Administration". Many in Japan credit Deming as one of the inspirations for what has become known as the Japanese post-war economic miracle of 1950 to 1960, when Japan rose from the ashes of war on the road to becoming the second-largest economy in the world through processes partially influenced by the ideas Deming taught:[4]
Deming made a significant contribution to Japan's reputation for innovative, high-quality products, and for its economic power. He is regarded as having had more impact on Japanese manufacturing and business than any other individual not of Japanese heritage. Despite being honored in Japan in 1951 with the establishment of the Deming Prize, he was only just beginning to win widespread recognition in the U.S. at the time of his death in 1993.[6] President Ronald Reagan awarded him the National Medal of Technology in 1987. The following year, the National Academy of Sciences gave Deming the Distinguished Career in Science award.
W. Edwards Deming - Wiki
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_DemingWilliam Edwards Deming (October 14, 1900 – December 20, 1993) was an American engineer, statistician, professor, author, lecturer, and management consultant. Educated initially as an electrical engineer and later specializing in mathematical physics, he helped develop the sampling techniques still used by the U.S. Department of the Census and the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
W. Edwards Deming
Born October 14, 1900Sioux City, Iowa Died December 20, 1993 (aged 93)
Washington, D.C. Alma mater University of Wyoming BS
University of Colorado MS
Yale University PhD Scientific career Fields Statistician Influences Walter A. ShewhartIn his book The New Economics for Industry, Government, and Education[1] Deming championed the work of Walter Shewhart, including statistical process control, operational definitions, and what Deming called the "Shewhart Cycle,"[2] which had evolved into Plan-Do-check-Act (PDCA). Deming is best known for his work in Japan after WWII, particularly his work with the leaders of Japanese industry. That work began in July and August 1950, in Tokyo and at the Hakone Convention Center,[3] when Deming delivered speeches on what he called "Statistical Product Quality Administration". Many in Japan credit Deming as one of the inspirations for what has become known as the Japanese post-war economic miracle of 1950 to 1960, when Japan rose from the ashes of war on the road to becoming the second-largest economy in the world through processes partially influenced by the ideas Deming taught:[4]
- Better design of products to improve service
- Higher level of uniform product quality
- Improvement of product testing in the workplace and in research centers
- Greater sales through side [global] markets
- Appreciating a system
- Understanding variation
- Psychology
- Epistemology, the theory of knowledge[5]
Deming made a significant contribution to Japan's reputation for innovative, high-quality products, and for its economic power. He is regarded as having had more impact on Japanese manufacturing and business than any other individual not of Japanese heritage. Despite being honored in Japan in 1951 with the establishment of the Deming Prize, he was only just beginning to win widespread recognition in the U.S. at the time of his death in 1993.[6] President Ronald Reagan awarded him the National Medal of Technology in 1987. The following year, the National Academy of Sciences gave Deming the Distinguished Career in Science award.
12-03-20, 08:39 PM
#54
Drip, Drip.
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I've noticed that the suntour derailer has a stronger spring and is therefore better with chain tension then the shimano exage derailer i tried.
12-04-20, 11:49 AM
#55
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It's not great when the chain tension is higher, it increases drivetrain friction, especially at the pulley bushings. Further, in the case of Suntour and Simplex bushed pulleys, their much-larger bushing diameter multiplies the frictional torque proportionally, relative to the surface friction torque induced by chain tension on typical smaller-diameter bushings.
So best keep these well-oiled!
12-04-20, 12:35 PM
#56
Drip, Drip.
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It's actually adjustable on the Suntour derailers that I've taken apart.
It's not great when the chain tension is higher, it increases drivetrain friction, especially at the pulley bushings. Further, in the case of Suntour and Simplex bushed pulleys, their much-larger bushing diameter multiplies the frictional torque proportionally, relative to the surface friction torque induced by chain tension on typical smaller-diameter bushings.
So best keep these well-oiled!
It's not great when the chain tension is higher, it increases drivetrain friction, especially at the pulley bushings. Further, in the case of Suntour and Simplex bushed pulleys, their much-larger bushing diameter multiplies the frictional torque proportionally, relative to the surface friction torque induced by chain tension on typical smaller-diameter bushings.
So best keep these well-oiled!
I see this cylindrical thingy with ridges on it and a screw covering one of the pulleys. I've been told it has a spring in it.
How can I adjust the spring tension and how would I know what is too much or too little tension? Obviously you don't want the chain flopping around in the two smallest cogs , right?
