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Who's afraid of pedals, not me

Old 12-04-20, 07:31 PM
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billytwosheds 
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Who's afraid of pedals, not me

Obviously sarcastic, but refreshing a pair of pedals for the first time was not that bad.






Keeping track of the bearings, cleaning all the surfaces, the quality of these Triomphe pedals is great.

First one took about 30 mins being careful and admiring the parts themselves.

Then the second pedal took about 20 mins.

With my new skill/confidence fresh in hand, I started digging through my bins to see what other pedals I have that need service. Oh boy.

And a good weekend to you too.
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Old 12-04-20, 07:47 PM
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Get at it while the enthusiasm is fresh! Nice job on those.
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Old 12-04-20, 08:03 PM
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I enjoy overhauling pedals as well. Some Campy ones, you can get a cone wrench on the cone flats, which usually makes adjustment easier than simply relying on the keyed washer. This is a good time to file any rash, paint cages, etc.
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Old 12-04-20, 08:33 PM
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@billytwosheds

Quality pedals can easily last a lifetime.

My first good pair were MKS Unique quill on a Mizutani Super in about 75, they got overhauled about every other month here in waterlogged PDX.

BB was on that program as well.

They are probably still going today if they have been taken care of.

I had a huge backlog of pedals when I started this thread, got many of them cleaned up and overhauled plus found most of the ones I thought I had.

More pedal love.
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Old 12-04-20, 09:32 PM
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Nice job!
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Old 12-05-20, 02:04 AM
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa View Post
I enjoy overhauling pedals as well. Some Campy ones, you can get a cone wrench on the cone flats, which usually makes adjustment easier than simply relying on the keyed washer. This is a good time to file any rash, paint cages, etc.
Yes, I bought the pair with one dust cap missing as a result of the previous owner laying a bike down on its side too hard and too often. I found an MKS dust cap that fit but should have filed down that bit of rash on the body of the pedal, too. Perhaps sometime soon.

Originally Posted by merziac View Post
@billytwosheds

Quality pedals can easily last a lifetime.

My first good pair were MKS Unique quill on a Mizutani Super in about 75, they got overhauled about every other month here in waterlogged PDX.

BB was on that program as well.

They are probably still going today if they have been taken care of.

I had a huge backlog of pedals when I started this thread, got many of them cleaned up and overhauled plus found most of the ones I thought I had.

More pedal love.
That thread is inspirational!

Fewer and fewer consumer products are repairable, even maintainable, so the simplicity of well designed pedals is such a treat.

Last edited by billytwosheds; 12-05-20 at 02:16 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 12-05-20, 07:03 AM
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Agreed--I am working on these Lyotard pedals now, think they will polish up nicely, and for the price of 40 5/32 ball bearings why not!
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Old 12-05-20, 07:09 AM
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I have done a few sets of Campagnolo pedals and I agree, it is very rewarding. They spin so smooth after a bit of massaging! Like most bicycle maintenance projects, with the right tools, not so bad. Sort of therapeutic.
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Old 12-05-20, 07:48 AM
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When my mountain bike's original Shimano pedals needed work and I didn't have the time or the right tool to overhaul them, I stored them away and bought a cheap pair of Welgos. The LBS owner had billed them as "sealed bearing," but I subsequently discovered they actually had bushings instead of bearings. When I broke the cage on one of them 10 years later, I dug through my parts stash and rediscovered the Kyokuto Pro Ace pedals that had come with my 1971 Nishiki. When I rebuilt these, I found that the races were in perfect condition. I have been using them on the mountain bike for several months, with big plastic mountain bike toeclips, and they are twice as good as the Welgos ever were. I should have done this in the first place -- life is too short for inferior pedals.

I currently run an assortment of MKS, Kyokuto, Campagnolo, and Agrati road quill pedals, and I am pleased with all of them, particularly because they are durable and quite overhaul-friendly.

EDIT: In another thread, someone claimed about the narrow width of 1970s Campagnolo and Kyokuto pedals. My solution was to grind off the cage's outboard spike. Now they work nicely with my Giro Rumble shoes.
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Old 12-05-20, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by KenNC View Post
Agreed--I am working on these Lyotard pedals now, think they will polish up nicely, and for the price of 40 5/32 ball bearings why not!
those Lyotard pedals have a rep for fracturing at the stair step diameter reductions. While apart, really really clean them and inspect with a 10x loop
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Old 12-05-20, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by John E View Post
When my mountain bike's original Shimano pedals needed work and I didn't have the time or the right tool to overhaul them, I stored them away and bought a cheap pair of Welgos. The LBS owner had billed them as "sealed bearing," but I subsequently discovered they actually had bushings instead of bearings. When I broke the cage on one of them 10 years later, I dug through my parts stash and rediscovered the Kyokuto Pro Ace pedals that had come with my 1971 Nishiki. When I rebuilt these, I found that the races were in perfect condition. I have been using them on the mountain bike for several months, with big plastic mountain bike toeclips, and they are twice as good as the Welgos ever were. I should have done this in the first place -- life is too short for inferior pedals.

I currently run an assortment of MKS, Kyokuto, Campagnolo, and Agrati road quill pedals, and I am pleased with all of them, particularly because they are durable and quite overhaul-friendly.

EDIT: In another thread, someone claimed about the narrow width of 1970s Campagnolo and Kyokuto pedals. My solution was to grind off the cage's outboard spike. Now they work nicely with my Giro Rumble shoes.
Any successes in overhauling Lyotard Berthets?
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Old 12-06-20, 01:08 AM
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Originally Posted by billytwosheds View Post
Yes, I bought the pair with one dust cap missing as a result of the previous owner laying a bike down on its side too hard and too often. I found an MKS dust cap that fit but should have filed down that bit of rash on the body of the pedal, too. Perhaps sometime soon.



That thread is inspirational!

Fewer and fewer consumer products are repairable, even maintainable, so the simplicity of well designed pedals is such a treat.
Yessir, threadless, cartridge, disposable, planned obsolescence, profit at all costs crap is why we're in half the mess we're in.

"Yeah man, why would I repair or service it when I can just replace it with a cheaper version in less time?"

Wouldn't want to learn or build any skill that might save my azz somewhere down the road.
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Old 12-06-20, 10:02 AM
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Triomphe pedal spindles are the same as those used on Gran Sport and Victory pedals, and as far as I can tell only differ from Record spindles in that they don't have the rifling found on the Record version:
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Old 12-06-20, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by merziac View Post
Yessir, threadless, cartridge, disposable, planned obsolescence, profit at all costs crap is why we're in half the mess we're in.
Some of these things aren’t like the others. I got my first set of cartridge bearing hubs in 1984 on a Miyata Ridge Runner. They were a blessing. Much smoother than any hubs of the era, longer lasting, and require zero maintenance even when used in conditions that required nearly monthly rebuilds on the unsealed hubs of the era.

When cartridge bottom brackets came along, again, they were a blessing. Pitted spindle were a thing of the past. I, personally, have never replaced a cartridge bearing bottom bracket of any kind because it wore out while I have replaced scores of loose bearing spindles because they were pitted do to dirt infiltration.

The same thing has happened with threadless headsets. Back in the early days of mountain biking, threaded headsets and the constant pounding of off-road riding made them difficult to keep tight. I have often had to replace brinnelled headsets after a single ride because the headset came loose. There was a fairly large cottage industry in the late 80s and early 90s making locking collars of all kinds to keep the headset from loosening on mountain bikes. All that went away with threadless. I have yet to replace a threadless headset of my own due to it loosening. I seldom see “indexed” threadless headsets at my local co-op but I still see lots and lots of threaded ones. The addition of cartridge bearings to a threadless headset makes them virtually maintenance free. When you add in the simple adjustment of a threadless headset, there is very little to dislike.

I’ve owned and worked on bikes since the late 70s. I’ve seen a lot of developments come along that have made bicycles...an already simple machine...even easier to work on. As a volunteer at my local co-op (10 years and counting) who has put hands on north of 15,000 bicycles, the ones with cartridge bearings hubs, threadless headset, external bottom brackets, and all those other things you seem to be pooh-poohing are the easiest to work on. The ones with the problems...and the ones that have disposable parts...are the ones that have the oldest technologies.
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Old 12-06-20, 06:35 PM
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@cyccommute

Well that's fine and you obviously have all the skill to be an expert regardless.

My concern is new techs short cutting processes that you and I can handle.

We here it often enough, "oh we don't service those, they're too old and always need replacing, we have these cartridge ones that are cheap and last forever".

When something comes into a shop nowadays that is oldschool, the first thing that usually happens is the newschool tech screws up or gets in over his head then defaults to "we need to upgrade this BB, pedal, hub, etc. because the old one is bad", maybe it is, maybe it wasn't till they either messed it up or are trying to cover their azz because they know its not going to go well for them as they lack the skill and have a plug and play backstop so there is no incentive to care, especially when the boss says get it done and out the door.

I agree that for the co-op and BSO production all these "advances" are the way to go but I also think its a disservice to customer to not be able to tell them that their C+V bike needs someone that can handle it without causing it to have to be "upgraded".
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Old 12-07-20, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
Triomphe pedal spindles are the same as those used on Gran Sport and Victory pedals, and as far as I can tell only differ from Record spindles in that they don't have the rifling found on the Record version:
What's the purpose of the rifling?

I also have a recently acquired set of C record pedals with the Ti spindle, but haven't opened them up.
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Old 12-07-20, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by billytwosheds View Post
What's the purpose of the rifling?
It helps expel debris that collects on the axle so it doesn't enter the bearing. The Nuovo Record bottom bracket cups also have this feature:
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Old 12-07-20, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by merziac View Post
@cyccommute

Well that's fine and you obviously have all the skill to be an expert regardless.

My concern is new techs short cutting processes that you and I can handle.

We here it often enough, "oh we don't service those, they're too old and always need replacing, we have these cartridge ones that are cheap and last forever".

When something comes into a shop nowadays that is oldschool, the first thing that usually happens is the newschool tech screws up or gets in over his head then defaults to "we need to upgrade this BB, pedal, hub, etc. because the old one is bad", maybe it is, maybe it wasn't till they either messed it up or are trying to cover their azz because they know its not going to go well for them as they lack the skill and have a plug and play backstop so there is no incentive to care, especially when the boss says get it done and out the door.

I agree that for the co-op and BSO production all these "advances" are the way to go but I also think its a disservice to customer to not be able to tell them that their C+V bike needs someone that can handle it without causing it to have to be "upgraded".
How many people who collect and refurbish vintage equipment is going to go to a shop for anything other than parts? Additionally, don’t sell the mechanics short. I know lots of young mechanics from the retail side of my co-op who know a lot about old bikes. But, in a retail situation, there is a consideration to be made about time and money. Does the shop tear apart and refurb or replace an old style bottom bracket at $75 per hour and charge the customer accordingly or do that replace the old bottom bracket with a cartridge unit and save the customer some money? As a bonus, the customer goes away with a trouble free unit that will likely not need to be replaced for years.
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Old 12-07-20, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
How many people who collect and refurbish vintage equipment is going to go to a shop for anything other than parts? Additionally, don’t sell the mechanics short. I know lots of young mechanics from the retail side of my co-op who know a lot about old bikes. But, in a retail situation, there is a consideration to be made about time and money. Does the shop tear apart and refurb or replace an old style bottom bracket at $75 per hour and charge the customer accordingly or do that replace the old bottom bracket with a cartridge unit and save the customer some money? As a bonus, the customer goes away with a trouble free unit that will likely not need to be replaced for years.
I do get it and your guys have the advantage of a co-op in house so they get the experience on this stuff, not the norm.

And yes you're right, most of us aren't taking C+V to a shop but it creates a perfect storm when a novice C+V takes a bike to a shop and ends up getting his Campy BB "upgraded" to a cartridge or worse if they can't get the fixed cup out and scratch the frame then tell them they can't fix it, pay the bill and find another shop, sorry.

Also, a BB overhaul or replace should be a menu price item, nowhere near $75 an hour, that's pretty steep for co-op pricing.

I was a flat rate fomoco and ASE Sr. Master tech for 25 years and no common service like that was by the hour, menu got them in the door, upsell is how you make the $$$ which is fine when justified.

Speaking of "time and money", there in lies the crux of the matter, the great qualifiers, world global economy, profit at all cost, just like I said.
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Old 12-07-20, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
How many people who collect and refurbish vintage equipment is going to go to a shop for anything other than parts? Additionally, don’t sell the mechanics short. I know lots of young mechanics from the retail side of my co-op who know a lot about old bikes. But, in a retail situation, there is a consideration to be made about time and money. Does the shop tear apart and refurb or replace an old style bottom bracket at $75 per hour and charge the customer accordingly or do that replace the old bottom bracket with a cartridge unit and save the customer some money? As a bonus, the customer goes away with a trouble free unit that will likely not need to be replaced for years.
Also, I am glad you're there to help guide some of these lads in the right direction, I know its not easy, hopefully they will also pay it forward as well.
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Old 12-07-20, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
Does the shop tear apart and refurb or replace an old style bottom bracket at $75 per hour and charge the customer accordingly or do that replace the old bottom bracket with a cartridge unit and save the customer some money? As a bonus, the customer goes away with a trouble free unit that will likely not need to be replaced for years.
The consumer efficiency point is well taken, but it's also something on our minds from an environmental sustainability perspective. If we can clean up an existing bottom bracket, old tech of course, we can incrementally limit the amount of waste we have to store or process. We're on an island, anyway, so these are things I think about.
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Old 12-08-20, 05:32 AM
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^^^^^^ we call the customer first. Explain the pros and cons and let them decide: it's their bike and their money. With most customers it's a matter of time and money. The C&V aspect does not matter. For a few it does. If we guess wrong and the customer gets a big bill, well above the estimate, the owner gets a huge ear full and, generally, has to cave in and loose money. Not good for anyone.
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Old 12-08-20, 07:24 AM
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Hijacked thread (again).
Pedal rebuilding is always a bit of a challenge for me. Mainly due to not having every special tool for each pedal.
Vice, flathead, and proper size wrench/socket seems to do the trick on most pedals.
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Old 12-08-20, 04:25 PM
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SurferRosa
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Originally Posted by rancho66 View Post
Pedal rebuilding is always a bit of a challenge for me. Mainly due to not having every special tool for each pedal.
Most vintage pedals require a pedal wrench or 6mm allen key to hold the spindle and a socket wrench (with 9-12mm metric sockets) for the locknut. Finding the right tool for dust caps can be a challenge for removal without scarring.
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