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Campy NR Rear Hub Question

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Campy NR Rear Hub Question

Old 12-16-20, 07:17 PM
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JacobLee
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Campy NR Rear Hub Question

Hello All, Iíve got a question about a Campy NR high flange hub. This is part of a wheelset that I bought on CL about a year ago to go on my 71 International (which I bought without a rear wheel). It came with a 5 speed freewheel, so I didnít even think to check the spacing. Iíve also learned a ton since then, and acquired a caliper!

The OLD measures 127mm. Axle length is 136mm. Three eared washers on nds. Is this a 126 hub? A 120 that someone made wider? I can remove two of the washers and loose about 3.5 mm which fits fine in the International, but Iím also wondering if I could just run a 6spd freewheel? Hmmm, what would you do?



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Old 12-16-20, 07:27 PM
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Service, check the dish, ride it.
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Old 12-16-20, 07:36 PM
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This is from my 1970 International. 120mm is what the rule says, if this is helpful. According to my bike you have an extra aluminum spacer in there, but it looks about right with that freewheel.



Last edited by mdarnton; 12-16-20 at 07:41 PM.
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Old 12-16-20, 08:15 PM
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Yep, Iíve serviced it, dished it, ridden it, and itís definitely not like the one above, so what is it?
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Old 12-16-20, 08:28 PM
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That is the correct aluminum spacer for 6/7 speed but I don't see a steel washer on the right side. Assuming these are all original Campy parts (cones etc) you should be 6/7 ready if you just move one or two of the steel washers from left to right.

The 6-speed I'm referring to is the old kind made for wide 5-speed chains. There are also narrow 6-speeds, such as Suntour Ultra-6, which are just a mm or so wider than a 5-speed, and meant for 5-sp. hubs/frames.

Measure your freewheel space like this, called out as dimension "A":


Freewheel space "A" needs to be 30 or 31mm for 5-speed or Ultra-6, or 36 mm for wide 6-speed or a bit more for 7-speed, depending on your frame. Namely how well they provided clearance at the bottom/inside of the right seatstay. Bulbous seatstays with no relief can need a couple mm more to clear the chain, to the point where I'd rather grind the offending metal off the the frame than put all that unnecessary dish on my wheel. Properly made frames don't need the grinding, and the bad frames that do need grinding deserve to have rust and mucked up paint or chrome there — serves them right!

I say 6/7 speed as if they're the same, but most 7-speed freewheels are a bit wider than your typical "wide" 6-speed. Often about 1.5 mm wider. So shoot for 35 or 36 mm freewheel space for 6-speed and 37 to 37.5 mm for 7-speed. But keep that dimension about as narrow as you can, to reduce wheel dish. Chain just skimming the seatstay is OK with me as long as it misses even while shifting. It needs a bit more room while shifting than just running in high gear after the chain settles down.

If you only move about a mm of steel spacer from left to right then you're still at 127, which is fine, or take out another washer from the left if you want it 126. You might need to re-dish the wheel, but if it's dished correctly now and you only move that one washer, you'll still be pretty close — some might say "close enough". When I'm dishing a wheel, I'm pretty obsessive about it, but that's just me. Ask here if you don't know what I mean about re-dishing a wheel. You can do it yourself with a spoke wrench or take it to a pro. If the dish is off it will make the bike not ride straight, though one mm off is probably below the threshold of what you can feel.

Mark B in Seattle
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Old 12-16-20, 09:03 PM
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Modified.

if the frame is spaced 126
the spacing was rearranged to lower the dish
if you are forcing in the 126 spaced hub and not a 120 mm spaced frame,
meh in my book
correct the spacing, reddish the wheel, tire and Rim strip off to check the spoke engagement
reassemble
or space for 6 speed- go with that- keep in mind, not all frames like that- check the inboard sides of the drive side stays
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Old 12-16-20, 09:06 PM
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I would guess it's setup for 126mm, 6-speed spacing. The axle is 136mm, so that would be 8mm showing on each side if it were for 120mm, which is too long.

That freewheel looks like a modern one with threading showing for an additional cog. That's the way IRD, for example, makes their 5-speeds.

I would make the o.l.d. 126mm for a 6-speed or 127-128mm for a 7-speed and run it like that. So I might have to move some spacers around and redish to take advantage of the longer axle. This assumes the skewers are long enough.

Edit: I see it's for an International. One reason you might want to keep it at 5-speed and some spacers on the nds is to create a stronger wheel for grocery getting or loaded touring.

Last edited by SurferRosa; 12-16-20 at 09:17 PM.
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Old 12-16-20, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by bulgie View Post
That is the correct aluminum spacer for 6/7 speed but I don't see a steel washer on the right side. Assuming these are all original Campy parts (cones etc) you should be 6/7 ready if you just move one or two of the steel washers from left to right.

The 6-speed I'm referring to is the old kind made for wide 5-speed chains. There are also narrow 6-speeds, such as Suntour Ultra-6, which are just a mm or so wider than a 5-speed, and meant for 5-sp. hubs/frames.

Measure your freewheel space like this, called out as dimension "A":


Freewheel space "A" needs to be 30 or 31mm for 5-speed or Ultra-6, or 36 mm for wide 6-speed or a bit more for 7-speed, depending on your frame. Namely how well they provided clearance at the bottom/inside of the right seatstay. Bulbous seatstays with no relief can need a couple mm more to clear the chain, to the point where I'd rather grind the offending metal off the the frame than put all that unnecessary dish on my wheel. Properly made frames don't need the grinding, and the bad frames that do need grinding deserve to have rust and mucked up paint or chrome there ó serves them right!

I say 6/7 speed as if they're the same, but most 7-speed freewheels are a bit wider than your typical "wide" 6-speed. Often about 1.5 mm wider. So shoot for 35 or 36 mm freewheel space for 6-speed and 37 to 37.5 mm for 7-speed. But keep that dimension about as narrow as you can, to reduce wheel dish. Chain just skimming the seatstay is OK with me as long as it misses even while shifting. It needs a bit more room while shifting than just running in high gear after the chain settles down.

If you only move about a mm of steel spacer from left to right then you're still at 127, which is fine, or take out another washer from the left if you want it 126. You might need to re-dish the wheel, but if it's dished correctly now and you only move that one washer, you'll still be pretty close ó some might say "close enough". When I'm dishing a wheel, I'm pretty obsessive about it, but that's just me. Ask here if you don't know what I mean about re-dishing a wheel. You can do it yourself with a spoke wrench or take it to a pro. If the dish is off it will make the bike not ride straight, though one mm off is probably below the threshold of what you can feel.

Mark B in Seattle
Why many 5 speed France bikes are 122mm
in the 60ís- 70ís they did not blacksmith the stays very often, a FEW builders did.
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Old 12-16-20, 09:10 PM
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This hub was made for 6/7 speed freewheels. 126mm OLD. Somebody moved the axle parts around to make it work with a narrower 5-speed cluster.

If you take the 3 washers on the non-drive side and move them to the drive side, and then redish, you should be able to fit a 7-speed freewheel, thereby gaining 2 extra useful cogs.

The excellent Shimano TZ21 (renamed TZ500) 7-speed freewheel is as good as anyone needs, and featuring Hyperglide cogs, will shift better than any vintage freewheel ever made.
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Old 12-16-20, 09:28 PM
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Thanks All! Itíll take me a few days to digest all of this info, but I really appreciate it!
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Old 12-17-20, 03:46 AM
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Originally Posted by bulgie View Post
Bulbous seatstays with no relief can need a couple mm more to clear the chain, to the point where I'd rather grind the offending metal off the the frame than put all that unnecessary dish on my wheel. Properly made frames don't need the grinding, and the bad frames that do need grinding deserve to have rust and mucked up paint or chrome there — serves them right!
Ouch. I'd be using a hammer and bit of brass bar stock and a block of wood with a groove in it to flatten the stay.

Would rather move than remove metal.

Hot work fits in between - though one time when the hub just HAD to be as far as possible to one side I silver-soldered that side's cone to the axle so the locknut wasn't needed.
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