Anyone recognize these lugs?
 

All I know from the seller is that the bike was purchased by his wife in the 70’s and was resprayed by Ed Litton sometime in the 80’s. He thinks it’s British, but he thinks it’s low end. The lugs and derailleur hanger suggest differently, but this is all the info I have to go on.

Seller’s pics, apologies that they’re not great.:


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2a23fe200.jpeg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c1677ed2b.jpeg

The fork looks low end, but the frame does not. I don't suppose they have matching serial numbers?

But no, I don't recognize the lugs.

Me neither but good chance that if the story that Ed re-sprayed this is true then he probably also brazed on the TT cable guides and maybe added the RD hanger to the stamped DO. And doubt he'd have done all this to a crap frame (unless the "customer's always right" and that money was green) but yes the forkcrown looks like a cheaper bulge-formed unit that might indicate a cheaper replacement. Maybe Ed could ID this from a glance at the headlugs, but I bet some of our more knowledgable folks here might, too, or go the Lightweights UK and wade thru all those pix.

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Haden is the most logical source for these.

Here is a Haden advert from the era of the frame for the Firefly and Polaris patterns.

A measure of "family resemblance" can be seen but certainly not a match.


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b820aadcc2.jpg
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welded crown appears it may be a BOCAMA pattern, although Haden, NERVEX and others offered very similar ones...

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are dropouts Agrati or are they Cyclo?


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this thread would be helped by visitation from our framebuilder members such as gugie Doug Fattic & bulgie

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I was hoping you'd chime in! Unfortunately, this is the extent of the information I have. It's posted for a steal price (and I may have already missed out on it, though it's still listed). I would have pounced, but bringing a new bike into the fold would require selling one or risking divorce, so I wanted to check on its magicalness first.

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wonder if nostro Edoardo knew/recognized the marque...

can certainly appreciate the need for the maintenance of "domestic peace and tranquilitude" ;)

as an elderly bachelor enjoy the "luxury" of draggin' home "any old thing" i want :D

(have found it difficult to find information on vintage Haden patterns, there is good documentation beginning with the 1980's)


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Agree with rhm and unworthy1 that the fork is likely a replacement.

The head lugs look something like this (at better resolution):

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...010e615b07.jpg


And the seat lug like this:

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e9e3c001a0.jpg


I'm not sure of the genealogy of these lugs, but I've only seen them on 50s/60s Capo Sieger frames.

Once again proving that your reputation for sorcery is well-earned... Wow, thank you!

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DCI Moss resolves yet another mystery in rapidtime! :thumb::thumb::thumb:

This lugest offered for sale by the German mailorder firm Brugelmann in an advert/catalogue page of 1959.

Have posted it in another thread but cannot at moment locate.

Unfortunately the listing does not offer a manufacturer name.

Brugelmann, as with so many resellers, does not offer the brand names/actual manufacturers for many of the items they list. They seem to seek to create an impression in the reader that the items listed are "theirs."

If am able to locate advert shall it glue in. ;)

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The fork crown matches my Raleigh Blue Streak, early 60s
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...14435c3e0.jpeg

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the fork crown on your Raleigh Blue Streak is a Vagner model DP or DP+ and is forged

the fork crown on the subject bicycle is welded and comes from another manufacturer

it is of lower quality than the one on your cycle

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...abca29caa3.jpg

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MauriceMoss does it AGAIN! So if this is a Capo (or brother/sister Austrian make) then the next stop is our own John E who knows all about that marque

find that man a cupie doll
a winner

Close -but you I think are overlooking the soft radius around the top of the crown- seen a lot of second tier French bikes

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if cycle a Capo original fork may have exhibited the distinctive ziggurat/terraced crown -


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9397b3425.jpeg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ec733a28e.jpeg

OTOH subject cycle lacks the unique Capo seat binder collar

the brake bridge does not show in images provided so we do not know if it exhibits the cube at its centre usually seen on Capos

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EDIT:

found the advert mentioned earlier. no wonder it was difficult. had recalled it as Brugelmann but it is Shruba. :bang:

alas, the lug patterns shown bear some similarities but there are no matches. :(

advert is from 1959 -


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...91ffec9d3c.jpg


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This is me on seeing an ID thread on BikeForums :)

Thanks for that ad - too bad some of these less common lugs so poorly documented.

You mean one of these? :)

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...fed9cec447.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...49cbb49cc4.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d08d67ffed.jpg

I didn't buy it, but the story does end well. From the seller:

"I checked out your lead and it is a Capo Sieger! The ornate lug work was a mystery to me and now I know, Thanks! [The bike was] probably a frame that Ed Litton had hanging in his shop. I sold the bike to a woman who is going to use it as a commuter bike and I think she appreciated the bicycles details. Nice to know it will be back on the road and not rusting away in my garage."

So given all the examples shown have 2 "clips" that hold the rear brake cable housing underneath the top tube good chance these 3 more modern-looking cable tunnels on top of the TT were addons, but DOES look like the DO had some sort of RD hanger as OEM. John E is this a "laminated" addition to a stamped DO or something else (have a detail pic)?

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the seat binder on the subject frame must be an add-on as well

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My Siegers and my first (RIP) Modell Campagnolo have/had the two cable clips under the top tube, as well as downtube-mounted pump pegs. My current, slightly older, Modell Campagnolo lacks both features, which is just as well, because those under-tube clips never worked very well, anyway. .

All of the Siegers I have seen feature U-shaped braze-ons that thicken and enhance the stamped dropouts to approximate the functionality and appearance of higher-priced forged units.

That seems to be a best-case fate for older racing bikes. My Team Issue Schwinn mountain bike, from the Ned Overend sponsorship days, is my main grocery hauler. :)