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Help with vintage campy dropout derailleur hanger

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Help with vintage campy dropout derailleur hanger

Old 12-22-20, 11:29 AM
  #1  
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Help with vintage campy dropout derailleur hanger




1972 Raleigh with campagnolo dropouts, modern shimano derailleur. How important are derailleur stops? When I mount the rd the correct way it is too close to the gears. Does Sheldon have a history of derailleur hangers page I canít find it. Thanks
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Old 12-22-20, 12:10 PM
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-----


is chain correct length?


-----
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Old 12-22-20, 12:12 PM
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What’s too close to the gears? The mounting bolt?
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Old 12-22-20, 12:24 PM
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The derailleur body gets too close and then the chain canít get past in the middle gear. The chain is correct it can move in big/big gear but is tight.
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Old 12-22-20, 12:28 PM
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Your may need to space the wheel toward the NDS to increase the distance between the sprocket and the frame. The problem is unclear.
First reaction is to state that the limit screws determine distance to the "gears" from the RD.
How do the RD stops contribute to the problem?

If the RD mounts and operates well but the lowest sprocket is "too close" to the RD, then does the chain rub on the seat stay near the drop out? Do the teeth of the sprocket touch the seat stay or chain stay?

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Old 12-22-20, 12:29 PM
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Buy an extension.

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Old 12-22-20, 12:33 PM
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I don’t know that is one funky derailleur. The mounting bracket may be installed incorrectly, it looks like it need to point straight back

https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/dm/DM-RD0004-08-ENG.pdf
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Old 12-22-20, 12:42 PM
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...I can't tell from your close up photos what is going on. I trust you are aware that certain derailleurs have certain limitations on what is the largest rear cog they will handle? If not, make certain you are within those limitations for your particular model of derailleur. This applies more to the shorter cage versions, but even long cage derailleurs have limits on cog capacity.
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Old 12-22-20, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by bianchigirll View Post
i don’t know that is one funky derailleur. The mounting bracket may be installed incorrectly, it looks like it need to point straight back

https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/dm/dm-rd0004-08-eng.pdf
this^^^

The stop lug on the mounting link appears well in front of the step on the hanger, needs to be like 90 degrees back before tightening the mounting bolt.
Be sure to first back off the B-tension screw, before re-mounting derailer with the link rotated clockwise.

Common error, I've seen derailers ruined by tightening the bolt when the stop lug interfered solidly with the barb at the bottom of the hanger!

This reminds me of all the French derailers being removed the wrong way, the hidden hardware is what causes issues.

Last edited by dddd; 12-22-20 at 01:17 PM.
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Old 12-22-20, 02:07 PM
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The stop on this hanger is in a different position than in the diagram in the shimano information.
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Old 12-22-20, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by ZudeJammer View Post
The stop on this hanger is in a different position than in the diagram in the shimano information.
Your photo appears to show the stop lug on the back side of the link to be at least 45-degrees in front of the hanger's stop barb.
Ignore the literature if necessary! Loosen the mounting bolt, and rotate the link clockwise to position the lug behind the barb (back out the B-tension screw first).
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Old 12-22-20, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by dddd View Post
Your photo appears to show the stop lug on the back side of the link to be at least 45-degrees in front of the hanger's stop barb.
Ignore the literature if necessary! Loosen the mounting bolt, and rotate the link clockwise to position the lug behind the barb (back out the B-tension screw first).
I did this and it puts the rd in a very tight sprung position that does not look right. The chain can barely get past it in that position Iíll have to get more picks.
on wolf tooth they recommend filing it:
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Old 12-22-20, 04:33 PM
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Shouldn't have to file your frame at all, and no need to use the Road link.

It sounds like your chain must now be too short if the bracket is now in the correct position resting against the frame tang (and if the B-tension screw has been backed out fully).

These derailers have huge capacity and adaptability, no funny mods needed.

You will want to start by adjusting the chain gap at the largest cog, using the B-tension screw. Then proceed to correct chain length as needed, keeping in mind that the axle position affects the chain tension and thus the needed chain length.


These derailers have a fixed upper pivot (no sprung pivot there) and also feature a concentric (with the cage pivot) top pulley.
Thus you can adjust chain gap before worrying about chain tension, and use the smaller rings initially if needed in order to have the chain in place. The chain gap won't be affected by chain length because of the two features that I mentioned.


PS, you haven't specified the exact model and cage length of your derailer, nor have you clarified your sprocket size choices.
So we can only assume that your gearing is within the "max cog size" and "capacity" limits of your derailer!!!

Last edited by dddd; 12-22-20 at 04:47 PM.
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Old 12-22-20, 04:58 PM
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Itís all within spec itís a deore 4120 but ah geeze I canít get any more pics for like a week. I noticed the issue before I even put the chain on. I havenít yet found any good info online about this type of hanger I guess back then the stop placement was more variable. I know it would work if it was filed 45o down or so, to look more like the shimano spec. I have it tightened down in that position currently and it shifts well but the stop is not engaged so I fear it will slip if I road with it.

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Old 12-25-20, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by ZudeJammer View Post
Itís all within spec itís a deore 4120 but ah geeze I canít get any more pics for like a week. I noticed the issue before I even put the chain on. I havenít yet found any good info online about this type of hanger I guess back then the stop placement was more variable. I know it would work if it was filed 45o down or so, to look more like the shimano spec. I have it tightened down in that position currently and it shifts well but the stop is not engaged so I fear it will slip if I road with it.

Look at page 13. The little extender piece needs to point straight back towards the rear of the bike.

there is a knob or something on it the needs to catch on the notch at the bottom of the derailleur hanger. https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/dm/DM-RD0004-08-ENG.pdf
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Old 12-25-20, 07:30 AM
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I think this is your bracket. See that little knob or protrusion? That has to catch on the stop or notch on the hanger so it points back to the rear of the frame

Pretty much all bikes, other than from French bikes and other odd brands, use this Campagnolo style derailleur hanger so it makes absolutely no sense you need to file it down for that derailleur to fit.

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Old 12-27-20, 10:05 AM
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This is all helpful thank you I will be getting back to fixing this issue next week but itís good to try and think thru what is going wrong with it.
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Old 12-30-20, 10:14 PM
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I mounted it correctly with the derailleur stop secured and messed with the b screw and got it shifting better but the derailleur still hits the chain during some of the gear changes.Here are pics of the chain hitting and in gear. Even with the chain slack it still does it. If I pedal it hard i can force it past. Its 54/42 up front, the derailleur hanger is also not aligned I havenít gotten to that part of the project yet.

bianchigirlI I agree but now that I mounted it right does it still seem at a different angle than in the pic you posted?
dddd: I have looked at it more closely like you suggest but still have a rub
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Old 12-30-20, 10:16 PM
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wanted to add these two images if that helps make the issue clearer
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Old 01-05-21, 09:46 PM
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Got it running without hitting but b screw is over halfway in and it is tense and the wheel is all the way forward in the dropout

pic of where it was rubbing, still has a bit of rub even with the b screw in as far as I can put without locking up the whole thing. I may try the extender see if that helps but Iíd rather an adapter that could rotate it.
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Old 01-06-21, 01:00 PM
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I ordered a road link and also one of these cheap Chinese extenders to try:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08HD68L16/
It says RISK on it and there is no derailler stop engagement...do deraiiler stops even matter? When screw on the original deraillerstop not engaged it shifts great no rubbing...maybe some loctite and forget about the derailler stops?
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Old 01-10-21, 01:19 PM
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It worked, not the Risky part but I got a road link too and that did the trick. I was able to back off the b screw all the way.
Iíve learned Shimano makes these RDs for current mountain bike spec which is different than classic steel road bike spec.
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Old 01-10-21, 01:20 PM
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This was my solution thanks
Originally Posted by Insidious C. View Post
Buy an extension.

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Old 03-11-21, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by juvela View Post
-----


is chain correct length?


-----

Chain was too short by a bunch of links yeah! Also the Road-Link was too short and the wrong angle, got a longer extender. Edit: got a longer sturdier connector and it works a lot better so it was never the angle. Still won't go thru all the gears you have to pick 7 lol I need a tanpan 11 but honestly the 12 tooth is too tiny to use so whats the point

edit: fixed the issue all the way now. it was not the chain although it was with that setup. I took off all the extenders and put on a different cassette. It was the cassette which had not enough high gears. In the end I needed more selection of high gear ratios and when I put on the new cassette it totally fixed all the RD clearance issues. I switched from the Microshift 12-42T 8-Speed to the SRAM 11-36T 11-Speed. I'll post a pic when I get a good one.

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