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-   -   Rear Wheel mounting problem (https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/1221280-rear-wheel-mounting-problem.html)

roadsnakes 01-10-21 02:53 PM

Rear Wheel mounting problem
 
I`m not sure if I should try this folder, or the Mechanics folder?
I have a 86' Schwinn Passage.
Whenever I have to take the front tire off, it just pops on and off, no problems.

But when I have to remove the rear tire, I have to give it a good pull to get it off.
And putting it back on is almost impossible! It`s like the opening on the tire is bigger than the opening on the bikes frame!
I almost have try to pull and the frame and try to get the wheel in the slot at the same time. Which you can`t do unless you have four hands.
It`s like the seat stays and chain stays need to be pulled apart?

Moisture 01-10-21 03:01 PM

First check to ensure dropouts are aligned
. Lzy the bike on its side with the bars facing up and gently spread apart each side

oneclick 01-10-21 04:51 PM


Originally Posted by Moisture (Post 21871609)
First check to ensure dropouts are aligned
. Lzy the bike on its side with the bars facing up and gently spread apart each side

No.

NO.

There is a proper way to spread steel stays, and that isn't it.

You have no way of knowing if the stays were aligned before or after if you don't measure, and if you attempt to spread the stays as described above you are unlikely to finish with them aligned even if they were to begin with.

nlerner 01-10-21 05:09 PM


Originally Posted by roadsnakes (Post 21871598)
I`m not sure if I should try this folder, or the Mechanics folder?
I have a 86' Schwinn Passage.
Whenever I have to take the front tire off, it just pops on and off, no problems.

But when I have to remove the rear tire, I have to give it a good pull to get it off.
And putting it back on is almost impossible! It`s like the opening on the tire is bigger than the opening on the bikes frame!
I almost have try to pull and the frame and try to get the wheel in the slot at the same time. Which you can`t do unless you have four hands.
It`s like the seat stays and chain stays need to be pulled apart?

Has the original rear wheel been replaced at some point? Sounds like it. Back in the time of 5-speed rear clusters, spacing between the dropouts was 120mm. When 6- and 7-speed became common, dropouts spacing increased to 126mm. Then 8-speed on up call for 130mm spacing. Mtn bike rear wheels (and some touring bikes) have 135mm spacing. Measure your dropouts, and measure your rear hub from locknut to locknut. See how they compare.

roadsnakes 01-10-21 05:49 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 21871770)
Has the original rear wheel been replaced at some point? Sounds like it. Back in the time of 5-speed rear clusters, spacing between the dropouts was 120mm. When 6- and 7-speed became common, dropouts spacing increased to 126mm. Then 8-speed on up call for 130mm spacing. Mtn bike rear wheels (and some touring bikes) have 135mm spacing. Measure your dropouts, and measure your rear hub from locknut to locknut. See how they compare.

WOW!
Looking back , the rear wheel Was replaced over 30 some years ago.
I now remember getting it caught between the grass and sidewalk. When I tried to ride out of it, back onto the sidewalk, the rim got bent Very badly.
The LBS shop said they had a wheel from a tandem bike they could put on, and it would cost less then getting a new rim, and rebuild.
Since both the original wheel and tandem wheel both were 40 spoke.

NOW, What are my options. The difference must be not too much more than 1/16 on an inch.
But, my sanity can`t take too many more times trying to pull on the chain stays , And slide the wheel in at the same time.
'

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3164b569cb.jpg

nlerner 01-10-21 07:50 PM

There’s plenty of DIY stuff online to spread your dropouts (such as https://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html) or take it to your LBS to have it done properly and ensure that everything is aligned.

seedsbelize 01-10-21 08:19 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 21871994)
There’s plenty of DIY stuff online to spread your dropouts (such as https://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html) or take it to your LBS to have it done properly and ensure that everything is aligned.

This. It can be difficult getting everything just right, with the Sheldon Brown method. It works, but is fiddly.

thook 01-10-21 10:43 PM


Originally Posted by seedsbelize (Post 21872028)
This. It can be difficult getting everything just right, with the Sheldon Brown method. It works, but is fiddly.

understatement

KCT1986 01-11-21 01:38 AM

Is it possible to reduce the hub width? If there is room between the smallest cog and the dropout, remove and swapping around the spacers or locknuts to equally reduce each side. If you do each side the same amount the dish of the wheel will not be effected.

nlerner 01-11-21 07:00 AM


Originally Posted by KCT1986 (Post 21872263)
Is it possible to reduce the hub width? If there is room between the smallest cog and the dropout, remove and swapping around the spacers or locknuts to equally reduce each side. If you do each side the same amount the dish of the wheel will not be effected.

Usually not a good idea as you run the risk of have too much axle poking through the dropout, and the quick release won’t bite down as a result.

conspiratemus1 01-11-21 09:42 AM

If the wheel came from a tandem 30 years ago, it likely has an OLD of 135 mm. 140 was starting to appear but 140 would not be able to be crammed into a singe-bike frame. There were some tandems still made with 130 and if the OP’s bike is 126, the tandem wheel could have been made to fit poorly, as he describes.

So, before you go bending your frame willy-nilly, the first thing to do is measure the width between the inner faces of the dropouts and the over-locknut dimension of the hub, and you need to tell us what kind of hub you have—cassette or freewheel, and whether the hub can be shortened on one or both axle ends. A cassette hub can’t be shortened on the right side — well, maybe a millimetre— but a freewheel hub can be.

The question is whether the frame should be widened to fit the wheel, or should the hub be shortened to fit the frame, if the latter is even possible given the design of the hub. Photos showing these details will be more useful than one of the bike leaning against a tree and showing only the front end.

Much depends on how handy you are with tools, and how much experience you have with bike repair. You might be better off just buying a cheap rear wheel — it’s a wheel you need, not a “tire” — of the correct size, rather than tackling the job of making two parts fit together when they weren’t meant to.

Edit: As nlerner says, if you make the OLD narrower, you must make sure that the axle ends do not protrude even a hair’s breadth past the outer face of the dropouts (assuming it’s a quick-release hub.). This will require a hacksaw.

roadsnakes 01-11-21 01:30 PM

I stopped by my LBS with the bike today.

They did some measuring and looked at the wheel.

They said the frame appears to be bent. It was off by 5mm.

They`re going to bend it out 5mm, for 20 bucks.

Hobbiano 01-11-21 09:27 PM

That looks like a 48 spoke rear wheel.

walterpeter946 01-11-21 11:29 PM

I Agree witht this!!
 

Originally Posted by oneclick (Post 21871749)
No.

NO.

There is a proper way to spread steel stays, and that isn't it.

You have no way of knowing if the stays were aligned before or after if you don't measure, and if you attempt to spread the stays as described above you are unlikely to finish with them aligned even if they were to begin with.

AMa

roadsnakes 01-12-21 07:56 AM


Originally Posted by Hobbiano (Post 21873899)
That looks like a 48 spoke rear wheel.

'

It`s 40 spoke wheel. Originally on a tandem bicycle.


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...626d88d07f.jpg

markk900 01-12-21 08:33 AM

While the bike is in the shop, have them confirm your stem is installed safely. It is a big frame and that looks like a long stem but seems to me it’s not in the steerer tube very far, and you’d have a lot of leverage on it.

There is usually a mark or line that says “their much must be in the steerer”.

I assume you prefer the stem facing backwards for fit?

Nice looking bike btw.

Hobbiano 01-12-21 12:42 PM


Originally Posted by roadsnakes (Post 21874240)
'

It`s 40 spoke wheel. Originally on a tandem bicycle.


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...626d88d07f.jpg

Not that it makes any difference, but I count 48. The original wheel may have had 40.

roadsnakes 01-12-21 02:33 PM

WELL ! Now you have me thinking!

I`ll have to check next time I go out to the garage.

It could very well be 48! I just remember that 30+ years ago the LBS told me they had a used 40 spoke Tandem wheel they could put on, and I never doubted them.

That could explain that I don`t recall having to true the rear wheel in a couple of Decades! LOL

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3445164124.jpg

roadsnakes 01-12-21 02:41 PM


Originally Posted by markk900 (Post 21874285)
While the bike is in the shop, have them confirm your stem is installed safely. It is a big frame and that looks like a long stem but seems to me it’s not in the steerer tube very far, and you’d have a lot of leverage on it.

There is usually a mark or line that says “their much must be in the steerer”.

I assume you prefer the stem facing backwards for fit?

Nice looking bike btw.

No , I installed the stem, and I know it`s backwards. (for comfort , because of a Very bad back).

It`s right at the line of being the Maximum Height.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8c2621499a.jpg

markk900 01-13-21 08:50 AM


Originally Posted by roadsnakes (Post 21874913)
No , I installed the stem, and I know it`s backwards. (for comfort , because of a Very bad back).

It`s right at the line of being the Maximum Height.

I fully understand the trials and tribulations of a very bad back! As long as its safe......

uncleivan 01-13-21 06:35 PM

The passage was 126mm 6 speed. Your rear wheel is too wide.

roadsnakes 01-14-21 01:42 PM

I picked up the bike from the LBS yesterday.

The original mechanic ,(who was not even born when I bought the bike was built , or when I had the rear wheel replaced) who told me my frame was bent , was wrong.

Another mechanic looked at it and determined the cones were out of adjustment.

After he adjusted the cones and spacing, the wheel fit fine.

The bill stayed at 20 bucks.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c576e41ec9.jpg

Hobbiano 01-14-21 06:19 PM

That doesn't sound right. They would have to be so way, way, out of adjustment, to make it appreciably harder to get the wheel in. Have you tried removing the wheel from the dropouts and putting it back in since they worked on it?

roadsnakes 01-15-21 08:23 AM


Originally Posted by Hobbiano (Post 21878405)
That doesn't sound right. They would have to be so way, way, out of adjustment, to make it appreciably harder to get the wheel in. Have you tried removing the wheel from the dropouts and putting it back in since they worked on it?

'

No I haven`t.
Lots of ice and some snow. Maybe when the weather breaks I`ll check it out, and get back riding it. Right now I`ve been riding my other bike which is better in winter conditions.

I do trust the LBS and the guy that worked on it. I`ve been going to this LBS for over 5 decades.

conspiratemus1 01-15-21 11:04 AM


Originally Posted by Hobbiano (Post 21878405)
That doesn't sound right. They would have to be so way, way, out of adjustment, to make it appreciably harder to get the wheel in. Have you tried removing the wheel from the dropouts and putting it back in since they worked on it?

Maybe something was lost in the broken telephone game. It’s possible that the shop removed some spacers on the left side to reduce the OLD of that old tandem wheel to 126 mm. This would entail a final adjustment of the left cone before securing the locknut to finish the job. Maybe both cones, if the axle had to be “walked” to centre it in the cones. The OP’s last photo, the only one in all his posts that is of any use whatsoever except to confirm the bike is red, does show a left-end configuration consistent with 126 mm. (But wait! Is this the “before” photo, or the “after” photo? Should we guess?). A tandem wheel would have more spacers there in its native state.

The OP was positive he had a 40-spoke wheel and never bothered to count before retorting “it’s 40” when questioned. No doubt he is just as positive the shop fixed his too-wide wheel properly, after initially telling him his frame was bent. So we’ll leave him to it.

Agree with you that the proof doesn’t come till next time he tries to remove the rear wheel. Strange lack of curiosity here. Me, that’s the first thing I’d do, not to distrust the shop, just for the satisfaction of understanding what was wrong exactly.


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