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Looking for Asian Equivalent of this Bianchi

Old 01-11-21, 05:23 AM
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LeSexyFishorse
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Looking for Asian Equivalent of this Bianchi

Hi Guys,

So I love lugs, especially detailed ones. I was wondering if anyone knew any vintage Japanese bikes with fork lug designs similar to this Bianchi? Similar in the sense that they have similar lug shape with the imprinted logo on the top. I am sure some do but I would like to know which ones. If anyone can help me out I would appreciate it.


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Old 01-11-21, 05:51 AM
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Zunow

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Old 01-11-21, 06:10 AM
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3Rensho?

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Old 01-12-21, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by cb400bill View Post
Zunow

Holy Crap you werent kidding, look at those lugs. The price though is just as expensive as those lugs are beautiful. Just when I thought I found something that would not be too expensive to get into...

... why is this so beautiful... its only supposed to be a bicycle.



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Old 01-12-21, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by LeSexyFishorse View Post
Just when I thought I found something that would not be too expensive to get into...
Just because it is Asian does not mean that it is cheap.
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Old 01-12-21, 10:41 AM
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...
...AFAIK, pantographed designs on lugs, fork crowns, and seat stay caps started out with the Italians, and was used by some of the higher end Japanese makers off frames as a kind of statement of respect for their inspiration. I might be wrong. The really elaborate schemes were usually seen on more expensive bikes, and the detail in the designs degrades quickly as you go downscale in the original price.

That said, there are plenty of bikes that fly under the radar, pricewise in the used market. Here is a Faggin. they usually sell for less than other marques when they come up on Craig's magical list here locally. I know not why. But yeah, the best Japanese made frames are not cheap, and never were, really. The Yen exchange rate worked to keep prices low for a while, but that ended after a few years.





There were a number of years when Bianchi sourced significant numbers of their frames from Japan, because of that favorable exchange rate.
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Old 01-12-21, 11:30 AM
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Look, if you want to do "nice lugs", do it right, and get a Hetchins:

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Old 01-12-21, 12:24 PM
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With the exception of the stamp on top of the fork crown, I find the lugs on that Bianchi quite un-interesting. Although not nearly as elaborate as some of the examples already posted, I think the lugwork on my Nishiki ONP is pretty nice.



Last edited by Eric F; 01-12-21 at 04:36 PM.
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Old 01-12-21, 02:23 PM
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lotus made some bikes with forks quite like that. wouldn't bankrupt you, either
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Old 01-12-21, 04:34 PM
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Miyata had some fun features like diamond/heart lug cutouts, and "double-M" bottom bracket cutouts on some of their models.

Some beauty shots of a Miyata-made Univega Super Special



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Old 01-12-21, 04:38 PM
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For something more spectacular, don't forget Cherubim, who love making a splash at handmade bike shows.
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Old 01-12-21, 04:41 PM
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Is OP speaking specifically of the sloping, externally-socketed forkcrown on this Bianchi with the eagle and brandname in that crown (and probably part of the casting, not pantographed, is my guess)?
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Old 01-13-21, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by non-fixie View Post
Look, if you want to do "nice lugs", do it right, and get a Hetchins:
Wow! where are these bikes made?

Originally Posted by Eric F View Post
With the exception of the stamp on top of the fork crown, I find the lugs on that Bianchi quite un-interesting. Although not nearly as elaborate as some of the examples already posted, I think the lugwork on my Nishiki ONP is pretty nice.


This! I like this very much. I noticed a lot of the NJS frames have some similar designs. I did not know Nishiki made them too. What is Nishiki ONP? I will be on the lookout for it. I do like the Bianchi and Zunow logos stamped on the fork and seat stays though. I recall seeing a campagnolo logo stamped on a candy red painted Araya frame when I first started checking the auction site. That campagnolo logo is also a work of art.

Originally Posted by thook View Post
lotus made some bikes with forks quite like that. wouldn't bankrupt you, either
Yes I have seen that, definitely beautiful. It seems like Lotus goes for quite a lot here though. Maybe it is because they are quite rare. The 2 that I have seen for sale went for around 600USD in less than ideal condition.

Originally Posted by sheddle View Post
Miyata had some fun features like diamond/heart lug cutouts, and "double-M" bottom bracket cutouts on some of their models.
Sadly all the Miyata I have seen here are quite boring looking frames. Although I have read from the reviews that they are great bikes, I have a hard time paying the premium because of the aesthetic (yes I know its probably shallow). I have seen some Fuji's with those heart shaped designs though. Although they were quite expensive.

Originally Posted by unworthy1 View Post
Is OP speaking specifically of the sloping, externally-socketed forkcrown on this Bianchi with the eagle and brandname in that crown (and probably part of the casting, not pantographed, is my guess)?
YES!
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Old 01-13-21, 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted by LeSexyFishorse View Post



Yes I have seen that, definitely beautiful. It seems like Lotus goes for quite a lot here though. Maybe it is because they are quite rare. The 2 that I have seen for sale went for around 600USD in less than ideal condition
i see! i had not considered their availability exacting a premium like that. and, it's funny...i'd assume they'd be more available overseas as i'd thought they were japanese brand. guess i'm wrong on that. hmmm....
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Old 01-13-21, 12:18 AM
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Originally Posted by LeSexyFishorse View Post
What is Nishiki ONP?
Nishiki "ONP" (Order Nishiki Pro) was Nishiki's top of the line frame, designed and built to compete with the best of the European frames of the day. The ONP was available as a frameset only (not a complete bike).

This is how my ONP looks today, built with SunToiur Superbe...
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Old 01-13-21, 03:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Eric F View Post
Nishiki "ONP" (Order Nishiki Pro) was Nishiki's top of the line frame, designed and built to compete with the best of the European frames of the day. The ONP was available as a frameset only (not a complete bike).

This is how my ONP looks today, built with SunToiur Superbe...
Why is it all the bikes I see posted here always look so darn pristine. Do you guys repaint your bikes or do you get them new? Not that I'm complaining, I am more than happy to restore something but these bikes always look brand new! If you did restore this, how long did you take to bring it to this state? Do you ride it hard in this state? How would something like this compete with modern bikes?

Originally Posted by thook View Post
i see! i had not considered their availability exacting a premium like that. and, it's funny...i'd assume they'd be more available overseas as i'd thought they were japanese brand. guess i'm wrong on that. hmmm....
Yeah I have only seen one or two so far. But then again I have only been looking at these auctions since late November last year so there could have been a lot more that I missed. I do like the logo though. If one pops up that I like I would happily buy it.
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Old 01-13-21, 03:33 AM
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i had a mid 80's lotus elite at one time. it wasn't anything exemplary, but it at least looked the part. the notable detail of it relating to your original post was the fork, though. while the crown was not lugged like your bianchi above, it was sloped like it and had a little lotus engraved on each side.
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Old 01-13-21, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by LeSexyFishorse View Post
Why is it all the bikes I see posted here always look so darn pristine. Do you guys repaint your bikes or do you get them new? Not that I'm complaining, I am more than happy to restore something but these bikes always look brand new! If you did restore this, how long did you take to bring it to this state? Do you ride it hard in this state? How would something like this compete with modern bikes?
Because they are being built piece by piece, with each piece being cleaned, polished, and tuned up. Many people do repaint their frames. I haven't done that with my project yet, but I plan to in the future. My frame did get a complete cleaning, and a good rub with car polish. It also got new decals, including some that I had custom made by Velocals for my project. Take the time, and make the effort into getting the details right, and you'll get the same results.

Here's the thread about my build...Nishiki ONP - Build Project

I don't ride it very often (my newer bike is my preference), but I do enjoy taking the Nishiki out for a roll once in a while. In its day, it was a top-end race bike. Today, it's every bit as capable as it was then. I would consider the Nishiki smooth, but still very agile and responsive. I would consider my '18 Storck brutally efficient and precise. Really, it's not different than a classic sports car vs. a modern sports car - just with the same engine in both of them.
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Old 01-13-21, 10:21 PM
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I believe the Nishiki ONPs were made by (correct me if wrong) Kawamura (in Japan). I owned one for a brief spell.
The Bianchi forkcrown in the original post is most likely either a Cinelli "CCA" crown or (most likely) something made just for Bianchi by the firm that cast them for Cinelli. The production Cinelli model has a triangle cutout below where the "BIANCHI" brand is on the sides, and that eagle is undoubtedly custom tooling for the IC casting.
Keep your eyes open as you search images and you'll see a ton of artistry in frames from "artists in metal" from Japan... but also Italy, Britain, France and the USA (and Canada).
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Old 01-13-21, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by unworthy1 View Post
I believe the Nishiki ONPs were made by (correct me if wrong) Kawamura (in Japan). I owned one for a brief spell.
Correct. Kawamura built Nishiki's frames for a period of time. The ONP project was their best stuff of the era. Other notable Nishiki frames were the Ultimate, Olympic Royale, Superbe, and Tri-A.

Even more rare are the Italian-built Cervino and Maxima frames (one of which was reportedly built by Colnago).
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Old 01-14-21, 01:44 AM
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Cinelli

Atala

Maruishi

Masi

Rauler

Colnago

Faggin

Pinarello
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Old 01-14-21, 03:52 AM
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dROOOOOOOL...

How much do bikes like this usually go for? What bike is the Atalo, Kangaroo, and the one with the R in the logo? For some reason Colnago and Cinelli bikes never did it for me. Do you know if any Fuji bikes have these kinds of details in their designs?
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Old 01-14-21, 03:53 AM
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Now that I think about it, Nishiki is also kind of rare here in the Japanese market. I remember when I was looking at ebay to get an idea of prices that I saw far more for sale there than in Japan auctions.
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Old 01-14-21, 09:37 AM
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.
...Rauler, Atala, and Maruishi are all less well known here than some other marques, so they usually sell for less money. All of those were sold to me in the $300-400 range on Craigslist. The two Italian ones needed paint, but the Maruishi is pretty solid original paint.
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Old 01-14-21, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by LeSexyFishorse View Post
Now that I think about it, Nishiki is also kind of rare here in the Japanese market. I remember when I was looking at ebay to get an idea of prices that I saw far more for sale there than in Japan auctions.
I believe Nishiki was actually an import brand, which is why you wouldn't see much of them in Japan. Same as Univega or Centurion.
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