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Vintage and classic bicycles without kick stands?

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Vintage and classic bicycles without kick stands?

Old 01-19-21, 01:07 AM
  #1  
EngrJack
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Vintage and classic bicycles without kick stands?

Question: why do so few vintage and classic bicycles have no side stand? is it considered by purists to be bad form to have one?
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Old 01-19-21, 01:16 AM
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Kick stands are more associated with city/town bikes than road bikes, and road bikes is a lot of the c+v forum interest.

I've also heard vague things about companies not liking them anymore because of people damaging the frames by sitting on the bike with the kickstand down but that may be apocryphal.
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Old 01-19-21, 01:46 AM
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Originally Posted by sheddle View Post
Kick stands are more associated with city/town bikes than road bikes, and road bikes is a lot of the c+v forum interest.

I've also heard vague things about companies not liking them anymore because of people damaging the frames by sitting on the bike with the kickstand down but that may be apocryphal.

Thanks!
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Old 01-19-21, 01:52 AM
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i'd imagine some people do have an "image" related stigma to them. that's their problem, though

they can be a very practical convenience, but it's usually just as easy to prop the bike against something. without a necessity for one, avoiding the downside of damaging the paint (rust haven) and possibly the thin wall tubing is likely why many don't use them. it's why i don't. then there's the relative issue of extra weight you don't need, either

if i was doing some loaded touring, i'd seriously consider a double kick stand. out in the middle of nowhere with nothing to lean a laden bike against, it'd make it easier for accessing bags or making gear adjustments.

ps. if the frame has a kick stand plate, the damage issue is moot. but, many bikes do not have them
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Old 01-19-21, 02:50 AM
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Welcome to the Bike Forums, EngarJack

In my mind, vintage kick stands are a gimmick and a bit of a dangerous one (for the bike).

They are not stable. I would much rather lean my bike against a wall or fence. Baring that, gently laying it on its side will also do the trick, safely and with no fear of tipping over.

Kick stands, side or center, clamp onto frames and do come loose (or so it seams) with use. We tighten them up. The stand comes loose again and gets snugged up again. The problem is not the stand loosening off. The repeated using, loosening and tightening actually crushes the chain stay tubes near the bottom bracket. I have seen such damage many many times. Such damage dramatically lowers the value of a vintage road bicycle. In fact, unless the bike is something truly special

To that add that the stand looks pooey stinko (my opinion and perhaps associated with the mentioned "purist" concern) and adds weight to what is supposed to be a light weight bicycle. All in all, not my idea of a great thing to bolt onto the tubes of a bicycle. Particularly if it is an steed with exotic thin wall tubing.
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Old 01-19-21, 03:10 AM
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Originally Posted by randyjawa View Post
Welcome to the Bike Forums, EngarJack

In my mind, vintage kick stands are a gimmick and a bit of a dangerous one (for the bike).

They are not stable. I would much rather lean my bike against a wall or fence. Baring that, gently laying it on its side will also do the trick, safely and with no fear of tipping over.

Kick stands, side or center, clamp onto frames and do come loose (or so it seams) with use. We tighten them up. The stand comes loose again and gets snugged up again. The problem is not the stand loosening off. The repeated using, loosening and tightening actually crushes the chain stay tubes near the bottom bracket. I have seen such damage many many times. Such damage dramatically lowers the value of a vintage road bicycle. In fact, unless the bike is something truly special

To that add that the stand looks pooey stinko (my opinion and perhaps associated with the mentioned "purist" concern) and adds weight to what is supposed to be a light weight bicycle. All in all, not my idea of a great thing to bolt onto the tubes of a bicycle. Particularly if it is an steed with exotic thin wall tubing.
randyjawa, I appreciate your reply! I just bought a 1980 Trek 710 that looks to be in very good original condition. Itís components appear to be stock from photos. Itís being shipped now. I do not want to crush or damage the chain stays by bolting on a kick stand, now that Iíve considered your good advice. One other gentleman also voiced up in similar fashion. I canít wait to ride the 710! From all that Iíve been reading on vintage Trek bikes, the 710 should have a very different feel compared to my old 720íMultitrack or my 2021 Dual Sport 2!

Youíve helped me and the 710! Iíd have felt a loss if Iíd realized that Iíd inadvertently crushed the chain stay tubes on a classic old hand built American bike!

óEngrJack
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Old 01-19-21, 03:20 AM
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I'm a fan of them but I wouldn't put them on a road bike since they are not designed for them. Crushing chain stays is an issue.
They are very practical though. And I do not understand why some people would ride a road bike as a daily commuter if practical items like kickstands, locks, racks and fenders are not an option on those bikes.

As for those complaining about weight, we all know most cyclists stand to lose more weight on the person riding the bike than the bike itself.
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Old 01-19-21, 03:23 AM
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haha....the only way i concern myself with weight is loading the bike onto the car roof rack. otherwise, yeah...chunko boy here. what can i say? i'm a good cook
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Old 01-19-21, 03:28 AM
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Originally Posted by randyjawa View Post
They are not stable. I would much rather lean my bike against a wall or fence. Baring that, gently laying it on its side will also do the trick, safely and with no fear of tipping over.
[...]
To that add that the stand looks pooey stinko (my opinion and perhaps associated with the mentioned "purist" concern) and adds weight to what is supposed to be a light weight bicycle. All in all, not my idea of a great thing to bolt onto the tubes of a bicycle. Particularly if it is an steed with exotic thin wall tubing.
Leaning a bike against a wall or fence is unstable at best and rude at worst. The bike is one flip of the handlebars away from falling over. It is a compromise where you care more about low weight than a safe way of parking your bicycle.
The only safe way that is stable is laying the bike on its side. But good luck doing that in a crowded city without people tripping/running over the frame and causing worse damage.

There are thin-walled bicycles that come with a kickstand plate. They are just exceedingly rare on American market models because bikes are seen more as a toy or just a leisure machine.
In my experience the ones mounted on a kickstand plate hardly come off. Center-mouned clamp-on models do go loose over time and indeed do risk damaging the frame. Rear triangle mounted ones are pretty alright but the bolt-on rear chainstay ones tend to work themselves loose over time since there is a shearing force working on the bolts.

Last edited by JaccoW; 01-19-21 at 03:47 AM.
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Old 01-19-21, 03:43 AM
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leaning a bike can be more stable if one would carry a strap or rubber band and wrapping the front brake lever with it. a parking brake of sorts. rude.?...perhaps it depends on the environment. in the neighboring town of where i live, it's quite cycle friendly and it's commonplace to lean/park your bike so long as it's not impeding pedestrian activity. otoh, there are dedicated racks at many places of business rather nullifying any of these concerns discussed here.
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Old 01-19-21, 03:55 AM
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Originally Posted by thook View Post
leaning a bike can be more stable if one would carry a strap or rubber band and wrapping the front brake lever with it. a parking brake of sorts. rude.?...perhaps it depends on the environment. in the neighboring town of where i live, it's quite cycle friendly and it's commonplace to lean/park your bike so long as it's not impeding pedestrian activity. otoh, there are dedicated racks at many places of business rather nullifying any of these concerns discussed here.
Leaning your bike against something is feasible as long as there are not that many bikes being parked. In places like the Netherlands and Belgium it can get so crowded with bicycles that people start parking them in any empty space.

Leading to images like this:


Translation: This is an entrance for the residents. Please park your bike in the rack around the corner. If not, it will be "moved".

That people can be very foolhardy about their parking space as can be seen in this "Do not park bicycles here" sign. Note that every single bicycle here has a kickstand and if they didn't, this would be an impossible clump or pile of bicycles.


Most places here want to stimulate bicycle use because if these were replaced with cars it would be an even worse problem. So they have started building a lot of underground bicycle parking garages.

Last edited by JaccoW; 01-19-21 at 04:01 AM.
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Old 01-19-21, 05:59 AM
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There is another recent thread on this topic. Should not be hard to find.

+1 on holding the front brake on, with a bungee or line or strap. Just like the parking brake on a car.

Kick stands are OK under ideal conditions, which are few and far between 'out in the wild'. Good inside the garage where there are also numerous other good options that don't weigh anything.

Also consider the mechanical disadvantages to a kick stand. Unloaded, you have a machine that weighs 25# or so, most of it above the BB, maybe 3ft tall. Then you have a prop, 8" long at the BB, near the bottom of all that weight, trying to hold it all up. A mear zephyr of a wind will blow it over so the bike that was too fine to be gently laid down comes crashing down - onto a hard surface, if Murphy has his way. Well, I suppose that's good for the economy. Then if you have any luggage on the bike the calculus gets worse and the economic activity goes up.

I have 11 bikes and only 1 kickstand. That one is on Babe the Blue Oxen. Babe has a proper kickstand plate instead of a chain stay bridge, as did most Sears Free Spirits. And the only cargo Babe ever carries is road salt picked up in the line of duty. And as to weight, when touring on my Voyageur(40# of "essentials") I use a prop against the top tube, ala ClickStand. A kick stand in that application would not last a day.
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Old 01-19-21, 06:08 AM
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Hence, the invention of the Flickstand:

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Old 01-19-21, 06:10 AM
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Another option is,
The Upstand
These are very light, but do allow me to stop without leaning the road bike up against something.

For the MTB or Fatbikes I use,
Rear Mount Greenfield

These can be mounted without causing damage.
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Old 01-19-21, 06:34 AM
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Old 01-19-21, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by EngrJack View Post
...I appreciate your reply! I just bought a 1980 Trek 710...
Welcome to the 710 owners club. 😀 Here is a picture of mine. Leaning against a fence after a 70 mile gravel ride.


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Old 01-19-21, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
Hence, the invention of the Flickstand:

...or carry a spare toe strap and run it through the front wheel and around the downtube.
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Old 01-19-21, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by due ruote View Post
...or carry a spare toe strap and run it through the front wheel and around the downtube.
Clipless users from the past 35+years would say 'What's a toe strap?'
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Old 01-19-21, 06:00 PM
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Or simply lean the bike resting the bars as one point and the saddle as another, and all is good.

Many bicycles that are built with a tighter geometry do not allow space for a clamp on kickstand. Many of the classic road bikes have a tighter racing geometry, and therefore or not suitable for kick stands.

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Old 01-19-21, 06:14 PM
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There's only two kickstands I find acceptable. One is the Raleigh Sports model, which is designed to fit the bike, looks good, works well. The other is the Moulton F-frame. These early Moultons are, without a doubt, the most unbalanced bike on the planet which is a shame because they ride so well. Lean it against a wall carefully, turn your back and down it goes, all the time. Their stands are also ungainly, to say the least but it's the only option.


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Old 01-19-21, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by EngrJack View Post
Question: why do so few vintage and classic bicycles have no side stand? is it considered by purists to be bad form to have one?
Hardly bad form, or unusual - unless it's a road bike that wasn't meant to have a kickstand crush its tubes. No different than today - modern road bikes don't have them; city bicycles do.

As others have pointed out, if you look for C&V city bicycles that were meant to have kickstands in the first place, you'll find a lot of them. I'd wager to say that, worldwide, there are many more C&V city bikes still in existence, probably with stands, than any other bike design of the past.

I'd also argue that - just like now - the past has had its share of good and bad stands. Trigg dual-leg stands, for instance, are extremely robust and functional - even though their plating and fit leaves a lot to be desired.



Likewise, the current Greenfield kickstands owe their design to the Pletscher Esge, which has been in production for years:



Wald here in the US offered some typically crude, stamped steel stands back in the day - but they worked:



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Old 01-20-21, 03:32 PM
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I just toss them in the trash but save one in the parts bin just in case. Do you need one, let me know and I’ll send it.
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Old 01-20-21, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by JaccoW View Post
I'm a fan of them but I wouldn't put them on a road bike since they are not designed for them. Crushing chain stays is an issue.
They are very practical though. And I do not understand why some people would ride a road bike as a daily commuter if practical items like kickstands, locks, racks and fenders are not an option on those bikes.

As for those complaining about weight, we all know most cyclists stand to lose more weight on the person riding the bike than the bike itself.
Well, the reason for riding a road bike is simple - they're fun! As far as practical accessorization, I don't think fenders. hub dyno, f/r dyno lights, and lock in a small bag takes away very much. The handling is still there, the smoothness of tubulars is still there, responsive pedaling the same. But a chainstay kickstand can cause damage and weakening of the frame.

Some of those items are challenging to install with good aesthetics and no rattling - fenders being the worst culprits. But once they are in position they should not be shifting. BTW, I need to try a top tube bag for carrying a lock, rather than an underseat bag. Front racks interacting with fenders can be hard to sort out, as well. And of course some great vintage roadies with tight clearances can be hard to fender. I have a set of brackets from River City Bikes in Portland to split a set of 35 mm Honjo fenders at the headset crown and seatstay, to accommodate 24 mm 700c tires. I haven't decided how to split the fenders, however.

But except for kickstands these are mostly constructive problems.

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Old 01-20-21, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by EngrJack View Post
Question: why do so few vintage and classic bicycles have no side stand? is it considered by purists to be bad form to have one?
In cycling’s early days good looking young women would come out from their towns and villages to hold your bike or hand a tired racer a good bottle of wine to keep him going. Side stands were simply not needed at this time.


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Old 01-20-21, 05:11 PM
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I'll echo the above sentiment. Nothing wrong with kickstands, as long as you have a proper mounting arrangement! The Greenfield/Pletscher is probably the lightest one you can get for a standard mount, and still weighs a good bit, but hey, if you make use of it, you can probably find another place to cut weight from.

I just brazed this onto a bike the other day. Had a kickstand on it before, with the bad mounting arrangement. It had tiny dents into the chainstays in spite of hockey tape we'd put down there to prevent it. The mounting plate saves weight because you don't need that top clamp piece or a long bolt to mount the stand. Plus, the stand can't twist, because it's confined by the bent edges of the plate.

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