Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Rust Help: 3RENSHO

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Rust Help: 3RENSHO

Old 01-21-21, 08:46 AM
  #1  
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 63

Bikes: 82 De Rosa Sammontana, 82 3Rensho Aero, 83 Bianchi Specialissima X3, 89 De Rosa Professional, 90s De Rosa Primato, 99 Colnago Mapei Master X-Light

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked 29 Times in 11 Posts
Rust Help: 3RENSHO

Hi guys,

As you can see, rust has formed in an area of the bottom bracket where paint is sometimes missed or thinnest. The previous owner didn't address the issue, but I need to---carefully and correctly.
  • A Dremel tool, which I do not own, seems like it'd be difficult to get in there without ruining the adjacent paint.
  • I was thinking of taping off the area best I can, then either Evapo-rust or Rust-oleum to treat the rusted crease. The former has appeal because it says it doesn't affect the paint. However, the affected area needs to be soaked with it. The latter is a spray, turns the surface black, and acts as a primer as well. Has anyone had success with these products or would suggest alternatives?
  • I still need a lacquer touch up paint. With some mixing I hope (fingers crossed) for a close match.

Any help would be most appreciated. Thanks!



DCilliams is offline  
Old 01-21-21, 08:57 AM
  #2  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 557

Bikes: 1970s Coppi/Fiorelli beater, 1973 Raleigh Competition, 1972 Bob Jackson, 1970 Cilo Sprint-X, 1985 Fuji Touring Series IV, 1969 Legnano Roma

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 217 Post(s)
Liked 198 Times in 129 Posts
here's how i would tackle it - to avoid mechanical methods that would struggle with access:

1. degrease thoroughly
2. Naval Jelly by brush (or Oxalic acid soak), until back to bare metal - this is your Evapo Rust step
3. Rust Converter applied *very* specifically, to halt further corrosion - this is your Rustoleum product, but it messes paint so apply with stylus of some sort
4. Touch-up colour to make it less noticeable
niliraga is offline  
Likes For niliraga:
Old 01-21-21, 09:07 AM
  #3  
Senior Member
 
SJX426's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fredericksburg, Va
Posts: 9,563

Bikes: '65 Frejus TDF, '73 Bottecchia Giro d'Italia, '83 Colnago Superissimo, '84 Trek 610, '84 Trek 760, '88 Pinarello Veneto, '88 De Rosa Pro, '89 Pinarello Montello, '94 Burley Duet, 97 Specialized RockHopper, 2010 Langster, Tern Link D8

Mentioned: 73 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1598 Post(s)
Liked 2,181 Times in 1,086 Posts
OA is your friend herel Gets rid of the rust without paint damage.
__________________
Bikes don't stand alone. They are two tired.
SJX426 is offline  
Likes For SJX426:
Old 01-21-21, 09:43 AM
  #4  
Senior Member
 
xiaoman1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City of Angels
Posts: 5,151

Bikes: A few too many

Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1359 Post(s)
Liked 2,171 Times in 1,177 Posts
Nice bike...I would use evapo rust/OA as others have mentioned. if you are not disassembling the BB try building a small dam with kids clay to keep the liquid where you want it.
I use POR-15 clear because it flows better than anything I have found so you could use a thin straw to draw the solution into and simply place it on one end and release...gravity will do the rest. It flows like water no brushing, but it is pricey.
Best, Ben

Cures like a ceramic coating....hard as nails
__________________
"EVERY PERSON IS GUILTY OF ALL THE GOOD THEY DID NOT DO"
Voltaire

Voice recognition may sometimes create odd spelling and grammatical errors



xiaoman1 is offline  
Old 01-21-21, 10:23 AM
  #5  
Bike Butcher of Portland
 
gugie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 11,627

Bikes: It's complicated.

Mentioned: 1299 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4660 Post(s)
Liked 5,740 Times in 2,261 Posts
Tape the area off carefully, no one but yourself will ever notice if the paint shade is off just a bit. Heck, I had to look twice to see the rusted area.
__________________
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
gugie is offline  
Old 01-21-21, 10:50 AM
  #6  
Stop reading my posts!
 
unworthy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 12,930
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1408 Post(s)
Liked 1,025 Times in 760 Posts
You might actually be able to find a nail polish (lacquer) in that shade, you'll be surprised what's available in "pearl" and even metallic colors these days. But you'll want to shop in person with something like a fork in hand to make the 1:1 comparison in same light. At a shop with a huge range of nail polish...and expect to get "some looks". I'd agree with most of the advice already shared but OA is down low on my list of acid rust removers "paint friendly" or not. I would force some cotton wadding into the cleaned crease and eye-dropper in something like Rust Mort (Phosphoric acid blend) and let it alone until rust is fully neutralized. You could probably do same with Evapo-rust which I prefer just slightly over OA but find it works very slowly. YMMV
unworthy1 is offline  
Old 01-21-21, 11:09 AM
  #7  
Senior Member
 
noobinsf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 3,291

Bikes: '82 Univega Competizione, '72 Motobecane Grand Record, '83 Mercian KOM Touring, '85 Univega Alpina Uno, '76 Eisentraut Limited

Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1088 Post(s)
Liked 1,204 Times in 700 Posts
Does evaporust still come as a gel? Seems like that would be a good choice here.

Edit: From a google search just now:


noobinsf is offline  
Likes For noobinsf:
Old 01-21-21, 11:14 AM
  #8  
Full Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 276

Bikes: '92 MX Leader, 84 Colnago Mexico, 85 Recherche, 86 Panasonic ATB Pro, 88 Roberts, 80 moser... ect

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 68 Post(s)
Liked 134 Times in 67 Posts
Barkeepers friend. If you do a search you should find a few threads
uncleivan is offline  
Old 01-21-21, 12:23 PM
  #9  
Stop reading my posts!
 
unworthy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 12,930
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1408 Post(s)
Liked 1,025 Times in 760 Posts
Originally Posted by uncleivan
Barkeepers friend. If you do a search you should find a few threads
a truly economical choice (you can get a big carton of this at Home Despot for under $3) and since it's a "cleanser" you can mix a paste that will "sort of" stay in place. But active ingredient is (diluted) OA.
unworthy1 is offline  
Old 01-22-21, 09:57 AM
  #10  
Crawlin' up, flyin' down
 
bikingshearer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Democratic Peoples' Republic of Berkeley
Posts: 5,610

Bikes: 1967 Paramount; 1982-ish Ron Cooper; 1978 Eisentraut "A"; two mid-1960s Cinelli Speciale Corsas; and others in various stages of non-rideability.

Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 996 Post(s)
Liked 2,443 Times in 1,023 Posts
Originally Posted by noobinsf
Does evaporust still come as a gel? Seems like that would be a good choice here.

Edit: From a google search just now:


In my limited experience, the gel is disappointing. It tends to dry out (and stop working) before it gets the job done. If you kind find a way to keep the gel moist (I have not had a chance to experiment with how to do that), it might work better.
__________________
"I'm in shape -- round is a shape." Andy Rooney
bikingshearer is offline  
Old 01-22-21, 10:01 AM
  #11  
Senior Member
 
jadocs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 2,192

Bikes: Ti, Mn Cr Ni Mo Nb, Al, C

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 942 Post(s)
Liked 526 Times in 349 Posts
As long as it is paint safe....I would submerge that entire bottom bracket area in the liquid version of Evapo Rust, then touch up the paint.
jadocs is offline  
Old 01-22-21, 10:15 AM
  #12  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Valley Forge: Birthplace of Freedom
Posts: 1,297

Bikes: Novara Safari, CAAD9, WABI Classic, WABI Thunder

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 363 Post(s)
Liked 455 Times in 238 Posts
Originally Posted by bikingshearer
In my limited experience, the gel is disappointing. It tends to dry out (and stop working) before it gets the job done. If you kind find a way to keep the gel moist (I have not had a chance to experiment with how to do that), it might work better.
Wrap in plastic like Saran Wrap after applying.
stevel610 is offline  
Old 01-22-21, 12:13 PM
  #13  
Crawlin' up, flyin' down
 
bikingshearer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Democratic Peoples' Republic of Berkeley
Posts: 5,610

Bikes: 1967 Paramount; 1982-ish Ron Cooper; 1978 Eisentraut "A"; two mid-1960s Cinelli Speciale Corsas; and others in various stages of non-rideability.

Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 996 Post(s)
Liked 2,443 Times in 1,023 Posts
Originally Posted by stevel610
Wrap in plastic like Saran Wrap after applying.
Sounds like a good idea. Have you had success with this?
__________________
"I'm in shape -- round is a shape." Andy Rooney
bikingshearer is offline  
Old 01-22-21, 12:24 PM
  #14  
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 14,064

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 267 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4482 Post(s)
Liked 6,255 Times in 3,614 Posts
Originally Posted by bikingshearer
Sounds like a good idea. Have you had success with this?
I would be leery of the wrap with gel sticking to or hurting the paint, I use the gel and continue to wet it with fresh gel throughout the process.

The paint on this looks pretty good so I would proceed with caution at any rate.
merziac is online now  
Old 01-22-21, 12:43 PM
  #15  
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 14,064

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 267 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4482 Post(s)
Liked 6,255 Times in 3,614 Posts
@DCilliams

A good auto body paint supplier can match the paint for this, some will do touch up amount or a can of spray.

My last one was a spray can for $38 so a bit spendy but parts store touch up is $17-$20 that you still have to mix to match so....

I would try the gel for the rust and reapply to keep it wet, still time consuming but should get you most of the way there, then if you have to dig in for the last of it may be easier to finish with it mostly done already.
merziac is online now  
Old 01-22-21, 12:45 PM
  #16  
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 14,064

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 267 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4482 Post(s)
Liked 6,255 Times in 3,614 Posts
@DCilliams

Oh and more pics plz.
merziac is online now  
Old 01-22-21, 12:49 PM
  #17  
Senior Member
 
gaucho777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 7,439

Bikes: '72 Cilo Pacer, '72 Gitane Gran Tourisme, '72 Peugeot PX10, '73 Speedwell Ti, '74 Peugeot UE-8, '75 Peugeot PR-10L, '80 Colnago Super, '85 De Rosa Pro, '86 Look Equipe 753, '86 Look KG86, '89 Parkpre Team, '90 Parkpre Team MTB, '90 Merlin

Mentioned: 87 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 823 Post(s)
Liked 2,029 Times in 542 Posts
If it were mine:
1. Pull the crank and bottom bracket.
2. Fill a plastic tub with oxalic acid (sold as wood bleach - I buy Savorgram brand at Ace Hardware. Mix about 1-1.5 tbs. per gallon).
3. soak just the bottom bracket area up to affected area (generally about 24 hours, but check on it periodically)
3. Neutralize with baking soda.
4. Clean and dry.
5. Lightly sand edges of de-rusted area so touch up blends in with original pain smoothly. Some edges may flake off where the rust penetrated under the paint.
6. Touch up paint with brush, wet sand, touch up, and repeat until area is matched.

That's such a nice frame I might invest in a small bottle of automotive touch up paint. Most auto paint stores will match paint and then supply you with a spray can or small bottle of liquid. I find the liquid bottles dry out, but the can you can use the aerosol cans to spray into a container and then use with a brush.

Last edited by gaucho777; 01-22-21 at 02:21 PM. Reason: Tube corrected to tub; edited for clarification on spray can vs. bottle
gaucho777 is offline  
Likes For gaucho777:
Old 01-22-21, 01:05 PM
  #18  
Bike Butcher of Portland
 
gugie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 11,627

Bikes: It's complicated.

Mentioned: 1299 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4660 Post(s)
Liked 5,740 Times in 2,261 Posts
Originally Posted by merziac
@DCilliams

A good auto body paint supplier can match the paint for this, some will do touch up amount or a can of spray.

My last one was a spray can for $38 so a bit spendy but parts store touch up is $17-$20 that you still have to mix to match so....

I would try the gel for the rust and reapply to keep it wet, still time consuming but should get you most of the way there, then if you have to dig in for the last of it may be easier to finish with it mostly done already.
That location is essentially hidden. I'm guessing not one of us would notice it unless the OP pointed it out. If this were a show bike, sure, match exact, otherwise close enough would be close enough, IMHO.

Otherwise I would follow @gaucho777's procedure.
__________________
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
gugie is offline  
Old 01-22-21, 01:27 PM
  #19  
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 14,064

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 267 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4482 Post(s)
Liked 6,255 Times in 3,614 Posts
Originally Posted by gugie
That location is essentially hidden. I'm guessing not one of us would notice it unless the OP pointed it out. If this were a show bike, sure, match exact, otherwise close enough would be close enough, IMHO.

Otherwise I would follow @gaucho777's procedure.
True enough, but for me that much rust there puts the cable guide in danger, if I were going there, it would get some good paint after whatever thorough mitigation.

@gaucho777 also advocate's the auto touchup paint match in his last sentence as well so.....
merziac is online now  
Old 01-22-21, 01:39 PM
  #20  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Valley Forge: Birthplace of Freedom
Posts: 1,297

Bikes: Novara Safari, CAAD9, WABI Classic, WABI Thunder

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 363 Post(s)
Liked 455 Times in 238 Posts
Originally Posted by bikingshearer
Sounds like a good idea. Have you had success with this?
Have used it when stripping paint on bikes, not for rust removal. Concept is the same, just be cautious in application of the OA or other chemical.
__________________
Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong. Let all that you do be done in love.
stevel610 is offline  
Old 01-22-21, 01:40 PM
  #21  
Senior Member
 
tiger1964's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 2,387

Bikes: Drysdale/Gitane/Zeus/Masi/Falcon/Palo Alto/Raleigh/Legnano

Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 955 Post(s)
Liked 603 Times in 388 Posts
Wow, that's in a tough spot to get at. Two items come to mind, both of which I've bought at hobby shops for my wife's electric train layout:

(A) applicators that look like Q-Tips, except the ends are much firmer and come to a point. You could target the exact spot with whatever anti-rust product is chosen, perhaps.
(B) needle oiler. Same thing on targeting.
__________________
Larry:1958 Drysdale, 1961 Gitane Gran Sport, 1974 Zeus track, 1988 Masi Gran Corsa, 1974 Falcon, 1980 Palo Alto, 1973 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1974 Legnano. Susan: 1976 Windsor Profesional.


tiger1964 is offline  
Old 01-22-21, 02:05 PM
  #22  
PM me your cotters
 
francophile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: ATL
Posts: 3,916
Mentioned: 80 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1137 Post(s)
Liked 588 Times in 420 Posts
Originally Posted by bikingshearer
Sounds like a good idea. Have you had success with this?
Yes! (pics here)

And to the OP DCilliams : As a religious user and evangelist of Evaporust, I think an OA soak is your best course of action here. Naval jelly would be my 2nd pick and the fastest possible option, but trying to get the jelly out of that tight spot and neutralize it may prove challenging. Be careful if you topcoat with POR-15, Rust Bullet or similar products. That stuff sticks to skin bigtime, like superglue. Tape any areas you don't want it to get on.
__________________
███████████████


Last edited by francophile; 01-22-21 at 02:10 PM.
francophile is offline  
Old 01-22-21, 02:27 PM
  #23  
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 63

Bikes: 82 De Rosa Sammontana, 82 3Rensho Aero, 83 Bianchi Specialissima X3, 89 De Rosa Professional, 90s De Rosa Primato, 99 Colnago Mapei Master X-Light

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked 29 Times in 11 Posts
Guys - thank you for the great feedback. Work has been crazy otherwise I would have had some follow-up questions. I'll absorb these recommendations. I live in Washington, DC so i'll see if they're any good auto body paint suppliers that could match the paint. To start, I may try building a little dam with clay and put evapo rust in there with a medicine dropper. I definitely want to get this right.

gaucho777 What do you mean "neutralize with baking soda"? Is this a step necessary with evapo-rust as well? merziac Here's a quick pic of the bike in question

DCilliams is offline  
Likes For DCilliams:
Old 01-22-21, 02:32 PM
  #24  
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 63

Bikes: 82 De Rosa Sammontana, 82 3Rensho Aero, 83 Bianchi Specialissima X3, 89 De Rosa Professional, 90s De Rosa Primato, 99 Colnago Mapei Master X-Light

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked 29 Times in 11 Posts
francophile I just saw your Pinarello thread. Why do you recommend OA over evapo in this situation? Is it because that area is so difficult to access? Btw - did the evaporust have any affect on the paint? I know the bottle says it doesn't but wasn't sure how true that was.
DCilliams is offline  
Old 01-22-21, 02:53 PM
  #25  
Senior Member
 
jjhabbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 1,891

Bikes: to many to list

Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 293 Post(s)
Liked 1,027 Times in 255 Posts
To me that is the holy grail model color for a 3rensho! Beautiful.

JJ
__________________
From Illinois. Collector of many fine bicycles from all over the world. Subscribe to my Youtube channel. Just search John's vintage road bike garage
jjhabbs is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.