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Blue locktite under chainring nuts?

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Blue locktite under chainring nuts?

Old 01-31-21, 03:08 PM
  #1  
jonwvara 
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Blue locktite under chainring nuts?

You know that maddening thing when you go to loosen a chainring bolt and it just spins in the hole? And then you have to use that stupid little two-pronged tool to hold it in place--or try to hold it in place--so it will unscrew? One of the instructors at UBI bike school, where I went years ago, called it "the worst tool in the world," and I think that's a fair description.

What about putting a dab of blue lockite under the head of the slotted half of the bolt as a preventative during assembly? Not the threaded part--just the part that makes contact with the counterbored portion of the hole in the chainring. It seems to me that that might help prevent the bolt from turning when you go to loosen it. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any possible negative side effects. Of course, if the nut is really seized to the bolt, the locktite will probably shear before the bolt breaks loose, but it might be helpful in less extreme cases.

Has anyone here tried that, and if so did it seem to work? I'm thinking I might give it a try next time I install a chainring.
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Old 01-31-21, 05:05 PM
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Blue loctite is better than rust ... less permanent, anyway.
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Old 01-31-21, 05:07 PM
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So far, whenever I had trouble with the chain ring bolts, it was getting them loose (which is why I keep a VAR tool for that in my arsenal), not them rattling loose.
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Old 01-31-21, 05:25 PM
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Blue - not a good idea for chain ring bolts! Blue just might damage fine threads during removal. I believe that Loctite 222 is for finer threads...
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Old 01-31-21, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by randyjawa View Post
Blue - not a good idea for chain ring bolts! Blue just might damage fine threads during removal. I believe that Loctite 222 is for finer threads...
I think he's talking about putting the blue between the nut and the spider, not on the threads. In other words, making the nut a semi-permanent insert. I've considered epoxying them in place, expecially in my fix gear where I change chainrings relatively often.
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Old 01-31-21, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
I think he's talking about putting the blue between the nut and the spider, not on the threads.
I have done this myself and it works pretty well, and you can still remove the nut after the lock tite has set. A little light grease or vaseline on the threads (not on the exterior of the nut) also helps. You just want more friction on the interface of the nut/chain ring than at the threads to keep the nut from spinning.
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Old 01-31-21, 06:01 PM
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I don't have problems getting them tight on assembly. Removing is a different story. I usually drill them out unless the pieces are vintage or special. Many times I wished I had one of the nice VAR tools for this purpose,


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Old 01-31-21, 06:12 PM
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I have the nice Var tool, and proved I'm not very clever by somehow tearing up my knuckles much worse using the Var tool than I ever did with the stupid little Sugino thing.

The stupid Sugino thing can work a little better with the crankarm removed, on the workbench surface with the crank facing up, and pushing down on the crank so the tool is less likey to slip.

You can also position the tool so that it is pushing up against the edge of a spider arm, that plus leaning on it makes it very unlikely to slip.

If you don't mind mixing eras, you can use modern nuts/bolts which have allen key openings at both ends. Usually 5/6mm.
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Old 01-31-21, 08:28 PM
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All my knuckles are scarred from work like this, so I don't care if I gouge them again.
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Old 02-01-21, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
I think he's talking about putting the blue between the nut and the spider, not on the threads. In other words, making the nut a semi-permanent insert. I've considered epoxying them in place, expecially in my fix gear where I change chainrings relatively often.
Point well taken. I failed to properly understand the issue. To that add, I too see the need to do something to prevent or at least reduce the frustration caused when one of the fasteners fails to release.
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Old 02-01-21, 06:19 AM
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It is always a good day when all 5 bolts make that crack and loosen without the little pin tool. And yes, my hands have been bloodied by that stupid tool but at least it has worked every time. Instead if making the nuts harder to remove you could focus on making the bolts easier to remove. A bit of grease should have them turning sooner than the nuts.
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Old 02-01-21, 09:17 AM
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Interesting! I think I am aging to get some of that.

Originally Posted by randyjawa View Post
Blue - not a good idea for chain ring bolts! Blue just might damage fine threads during removal. I believe that Loctite 222 is for finer threads...
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Old 02-01-21, 09:38 AM
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I'll play devil's advocate here for a sec in case nobody else has...

What if you're like me, and you spend 75%+ of your time in the small ring on a double crankset, and thus you wear down and replace your small ring more than anything else? When you go to replace, you'll need to thread something into the sleeved wide you locked in, then hammer it out, potentially damaging its threads?

I like the idea of using blue threadlock, the bond is light, on-par with locking it in place with paint. But the long-term effects could make for painful upgrades later.
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Old 02-01-21, 01:00 PM
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Loctite 247 is primarily designed for threaded applications; for a press-fit or slip-fit, you might have better luck using the appropriate green loctite.

I have accidentally done your experiment in the past (with too much blue loctite), and it was a huge pain in the butt to remove.

If you want a simple (but modern) solution: FSA makes chainring bolts that have a 5MM hex on one side, and T25 on the other.

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Old 02-01-21, 01:33 PM
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I have been frustrated by many difficult-to-release chainring bolts over the years. The solution I came up with was selective application of grease- basically the photo negative of OP's Loctite idea -

1. Thoroughly clean all surfaces on the bolts and the spots on the chainring holes where they touch;
2. When reassembling, insert the back side of the fastener (the 'nut' half of the chainring bolt) into its hole
3. Put a light dab of grease only on the threads of the chainring bolt and thread it into the nut so it takes up all the slack, but is not yet tight
4. Repeat steps 2-3 for all chainring bolts
5. Tighten in a 'star' pattern.
6. Re-tighten after a couple rides just to be sure

The low friction of the greased threads combined with the relatively higher friction of the bare metal of the outside of the fastener against the chainring will allow you to tighten the chairing bolts without the back part of the bolt turning. THe grease will also serve as an 'anti-seize', and the bare metal contact between chainring and fastener will still have higher friction and hold the fastener in place enough to easily break the tight bolt free when removing.

Although, I also have one of the little chainring bolt pin spanners, they work perfectly for what they are supposed to do, and I don't really see how these are so complicated.
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Old 02-01-21, 02:49 PM
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would stainless chainring bolts (if they really are) mitigate the problem simply by not seizing as quickly/often as the generic ones?
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Old 02-01-21, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ClydeClydeson View Post
I have been frustrated by many difficult-to-release chainring bolts over the years. The solution I came up with was selective application of grease- basically the photo negative of OP's Loctite idea -
Same here. I grease the threads and clean everything else. No problems.
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Old 02-01-21, 05:26 PM
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I've used red loctite for the purpose mentioned and think I'll take the suggestion to switch to green loctite for this sleeve retaining purpose. Klein used to use it for bearing retention at the factory.
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Old 02-01-21, 06:25 PM
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I have not tried any colors of LocTite but would also endorse the Green (if you have it, I happen to) but with any/all of these they are an-aerobic adhesives so will only cure where air cannot reach. I think the Green is formulated for this type of interface versus any of the "for THREADED" strengths (from Low-strength Purple to "you really think so?" Red). Might give it a shot next time. Cleaning the surfaces with solvent (Acetone or de-natured Alcohol is what I use) is key.
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Old 02-01-21, 11:34 PM
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I just use the little tool - used to be Sugino and now (since '86 or so) the Shimano. In the last +/- 50 years I've never had one come loose. Never had one I couldn't take out. Just been lucky, I guess.
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Old 02-02-21, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by niliraga View Post
would stainless chainring bolts (if they really are) mitigate the problem simply by not seizing as quickly/often as the generic ones?
Stainless fasteners are generally more likely to gall and get stuck together than plain or chromed steel, or aluminum. Corrosion is not really the issue causing difficult removal, so stainless would not improve this at all imo.
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Old 02-02-21, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Steel Charlie View Post
I just use the little tool - used to be Sugino and now (since '86 or so) the Shimano. In the last +/- 50 years I've never had one come loose. Never had one I couldn't take out. Just been lucky, I guess.
That's one of those tools I keep meaning to buy... and never do!
Though one CAN use the small crescent wrench spanning from the back nut to a chainring tooth hack if one has to...
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Old 02-02-21, 01:31 PM
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I put TruVative bolts on all my cranks - 5mm on one side and 6mm on the other.

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Old 02-02-21, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Eric S. View Post
I put TruVative bolts on all my cranks - 5mm on one side and 6mm on the other.


Only someone like me would know or care about this, but the hex-socket-on-both-sides chainring bolts are only available for double chainrings. No one makes a single-stack version, as far as I know. As it happens, you need to use a single-stack nut, a 4mm spacer, and a long chainring bolt to fasten a granny ring to a Red Clover Components triplizer. I'd switch from the slotted style to the socket version in minute, if I could.
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Old 02-03-21, 09:07 AM
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A little dab of lapping compound works for this. Just enough grit to hold the nut from turning. I think I saw that suggestion on this forum some years ago, and I have some in the sharpening kit that came with my lawnmower so I gave it a try, and it works.
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