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Suntour questions: adjustment/chain length/lube?

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Suntour questions: adjustment/chain length/lube?

Old 02-09-21, 05:16 PM
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Suntour questions: adjustment/chain length/lube?

Last night, got a few more parts on my Palo Alto. This is my first time owning any Suntour components, some questions might be universal, some might be Superbe-specific.

(A) Any recommendations on lubrication on either the front or rear derailleur to keep them smooth, or leave well enough alone?

(B) I was adjusting and ran into an odd interference problem. The cable hold-down bolt is 8mm, but both my Campy T-wrench and my 8/9/10mm “Y” wrench fouled the derailleur body at the lower spring housing and I could use neither; so I resorted to an 8mm open end wrench. Really? REALLY? Is there a Suntour-specific wrench that’s thin-wall, or am I missing something? Or if there’s an Allen-key bolt that fits, I am OK with that too.

(C) On the attached photo, This is a 14-28 freewheel; (1) I read on-line (Sheldon Brown? Or elsewhere?) that 28T is doable, but the chain really does not go onto that sprocket and, once onto the 2nd sprocket, does not want to come back down. Chain too long? Hopefully one can see in the photo that on the 2nd sprocket the chain is basically contacting the sprocket and the upper fully on the same link. This is the chain that came with the bike I pulled all the part off of so I figured it was “the right length” more or less, and am using it for set-up only and once all is OK I will replace with a brand-new KMC that I have ready. If I tripped over a (13-26)(14-26)(13-24)(14-24) freewheel, that might be the smartest solution of all.

(D) Not derailleur specific, but I’ll share: there’s a braze-on on the rear stay too small for regular 5mm OD housing, so I ordered a few 4mm-5mm step-down ferrules. Fine but they would not go in. The micrometer shows they are about 3.98mm, and the hole in the braze-on about the same… too tight. A few minutes with a jeweler’s file and I was ready to chisel the fitting off and use a clamp-on! Then I cooled down and thought about it. I chucked-up the ferrule in my drill, the 4mm end sticking out and took a file to it as it turned. Took enough 100th’s off that it went in — but tight! I hope it will never need to be removed.


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Old 02-09-21, 08:14 PM
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https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/cables/j...-of-4/?geoc=US

As noted, 4 mm doesn't fit the real "diver's bell" stop.

Park old flat 8 mm brake wrench
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Old 02-10-21, 10:44 AM
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(A) So far, I'll leave alone & not oil or grease.
(B) I looked closer and there's plenty of clearance -- once on the largest cog. But how to adjust cable tension in that position? Very strange.
(C) Still curious about this. (1) it occurred to me to get a Road Link adapter, but that puts the derailleur further away from the cogs, that cannot help shifting, eh? (2) Maybe I'll just remove links, one pair at a time, and let's see if that helps.

Originally Posted by tiger1964 View Post
Last night, got a few more parts on my Palo Alto. This is my first time owning any Suntour components, some questions might be universal, some might be Superbe-specific.

(A) Any recommendations on lubrication on either the front or rear derailleur to keep them smooth, or leave well enough alone?

(B) I was adjusting and ran into an odd interference problem. The cable hold-down bolt is 8mm, but both my Campy T-wrench and my 8/9/10mm “Y” wrench fouled the derailleur body at the lower spring housing and I could use neither; so I resorted to an 8mm open end wrench. Really? REALLY? Is there a Suntour-specific wrench that’s thin-wall, or am I missing something? Or if there’s an Allen-key bolt that fits, I am OK with that too.

(C) On the attached photo, This is a 14-28 freewheel; (1) I read on-line (Sheldon Brown? Or elsewhere?) that 28T is doable, but the chain really does not go onto that sprocket and, once onto the 2nd sprocket, does not want to come back down. Chain too long? Hopefully one can see in the photo that on the 2nd sprocket the chain is basically contacting the sprocket and the upper fully on the same link. This is the chain that came with the bike I pulled all the part off of so I figured it was “the right length” more or less, and am using it for set-up only and once all is OK I will replace with a brand-new KMC that I have ready. If I tripped over a (13-26)(14-26)(13-24)(14-24) freewheel, that might be the smartest solution of all.

(D) Not derailleur specific, but I’ll share: there’s a braze-on on the rear stay too small for regular 5mm OD housing, so I ordered a few 4mm-5mm step-down ferrules. Fine but they would not go in. The micrometer shows they are about 3.98mm, and the hole in the braze-on about the same… too tight. A few minutes with a jeweler’s file and I was ready to chisel the fitting off and use a clamp-on! Then I cooled down and thought about it. I chucked-up the ferrule in my drill, the 4mm end sticking out and took a file to it as it turned. Took enough 100th’s off that it went in — but tight! I hope it will never need to be removed.
Originally Posted by Ross200 View Post
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/cables/j...-of-4/?geoc=US As noted, 4 mm doesn't fit the real "diver's bell" stop. Park old flat 8 mm brake wrench
What a hoot! And I did it the hard way! That said, some days I get tired of holding everything up for yet another parts shipment. "Diver's Bell" or helmet seems like a good description of the stop. And 3.7mm is, what, 9/64th's? What an odd size.
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Old 02-10-21, 10:57 AM
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C) That Superbe rear derailleur was from the era where it was spec’d for “racing” drivetrains and I believe 24 tooth is the maximum for the freewheel. You could try the road link and see what happens. The problem with that is that with the Road Link, the upper pulley will be moved further away from the smaller cogs making shifting sluggish. If you like SunTour for your 14-28 freewheel, SunTour made many other mid-cage or long-cage iterations that would work much better.

There is a coolness factor to the friction Superbe RD but unfortunately it is not a versatile RD for real people who ride real hills.
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Old 02-10-21, 11:43 AM
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Make sure you grease where that little ferrule contacts the inside of the cable stop if you ever want to separate them!
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Old 02-10-21, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by masi61 View Post
C) That Superbe rear derailleur was from the era where it was spec’d for “racing” drivetrains and I believe 24 tooth is the maximum for the freewheel. You could try the road link and see what happens. The problem with that is that with the Road Link, the upper pulley will be moved further away from the smaller cogs making shifting sluggish. If you like SunTour for your 14-28 freewheel, SunTour made many other mid-cage or long-cage iterations that would work much better. There is a coolness factor to the friction Superbe RD but unfortunately it is not a versatile RD for real people who ride real hills.
Agreed about the Road Link, per my post above; that's a fallback option. Interestingly, I've been riding on 24T max freewheels for a while now on my one bike in service, and I stay on relatively flat ground but can handle moderate hills -- but not mountains ("real hills"). I was thinking of an IRC 13-26 but that's $70 and still might be too big. Again, I read on-line that 28T is doable, and I just happened to have a 14-28 in hand. Might be shopping for a 13-24 or 14-24.

Originally Posted by noobinsf View Post
Make sure you grease where that little ferrule contacts the inside of the cable stop if you ever want to separate them!
I'll take that under advisement! I think I may have over-filed and the ferrule is now 3.699 or something, unlike buying on already the correct diameter. I wouldn't say exactly "loose", but...
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Old 02-11-21, 09:09 AM
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UPDATE: Well, I "get it". Found 14-24 Suntour freewheel that looks to be in good shape and bought it; now need a wait a few days for arrival. If I cannot handle a 42/24 low gear as I get older, or want to start riding in hilly/mountainous conditions, I presume a long-cage derailleur is in my future.
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Old 02-11-21, 11:09 AM
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To confirm previous posts — Max cog 23T; max chain wrap 20T
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Old 02-12-21, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Rooney View Post
To confirm previous posts — Max cog 23T; max chain wrap 20T
Took me a while but finally got through to Velobase, that link did not work for me. Data panel indeed says 23T max (and I have a 24T coming!), but a contributor below on the page posted "Wonderful RD. Multiple tension setting (6 from memory)and great casting. Buttery smooth shifts and yes will work with 26t easily and I see no problems why it could not run a 28 with a tight chain", that must have been what I saw earlier. Well, I'll know -- and report -- soon enough. In the middle of this, an old friend is e-mailing me wanting to know about going cycle touring... unless that's on MD's Eastern Shore, that might mean a language derailleur and bigger freewheel.

And another look at Velobase and "VeloBase Admin on 01/03/11: A note on the max cog data above: 23t was the official spec that I pulled either from the SunTour catalog or another data source. I have confirmed reports that these derailleurs have been used on up to a 28t cog freewheel with some effort, but as with these sorts of things, your mileage may vary. I suspect a 26t would be fairly safe with most setups." Well, perhaps that is only to make me feel better, eh?
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Old 02-12-21, 07:59 PM
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Hmm, the link was working when I posted it, but I'm getting a dead page when I click on it too. I'm not sure what it is about that site, but I've had trouble with links from Google searches in the past as well.
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Old 02-12-21, 08:58 PM
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When you feel you need more, there's no end of nice Suntour mechs to give you range. The VxT is a great midcage, pretty as day is long. Blue line, Cyclone(s), GT's are all over the place, just not Superbe and Sprint. Work with what you got.
It's commonplace for Suntours to exceed catalogue specs.
VxT


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Old 02-13-21, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by clubman View Post
When you feel you need more, there's no end of nice Suntour mechs to give you range. The VxT is a great midcage, pretty as day is long. Blue line, Cyclone(s), GT's are all over the place, just not Superbe and Sprint. Work with what you got.
It's commonplace for Suntours to exceed catalogue specs.
VxT
Interesting, I'll file that in the back of my mind. Odd, or perhaps NOT odd, that the Superbe series has one RD rated at 23T, and the next at 34T, no mid-range. On the VX you show, I like the adjustment screws being in the back like that, and the upper "hang angle adjusting screws", I wonder why all Suntours don't have that feature.
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Old 02-13-21, 09:10 AM
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Suntour was amazing in that they made so many variants and changes between models. You'd think they would have messed up more often but they consistently put out lightweight, efficient gears with a few exceptions. The Vx was only 7 grams heavier than a Campy NR and worked better but you'd never see one in a race.
I called this a VxT but it's really a VxS, which was a mid-cage that came with either a standard style cage or the quick cage seen here. The box has TOURING slapped all over it and it was rated for 30 teeth. Again, it would likely do a 32.
Here's some better pics. It has a little industrial 'Deco' feel to it.



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Old 02-13-21, 09:41 AM
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Love the VXs; I have 3. One is easily shifting a 14-30 freewheel on one of mine. A claw model came on an 81 Miyata mixte I worked on for a niece. The chain wrap on that one is pretty much maxed out with a 14-28 rear and 52-40 front.
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Old 02-17-21, 01:58 PM
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The replacement 14-24 freewheel arrived, and I just installed it along with the new KMG chain. Ended up making a minor chain length adjustment after the first try, and I think I have it "right" now. Kinda wish this derailleur had that angle-at-hanger adjusting screw, as the upper pulley is still very close to the sprockets in the 1st and 2nd cogs. That said, it does indeed shift between those OK (2-1 better than 1-2), and the rest of the shifts are like velvet.

Originally Posted by clubman View Post
Suntour was amazing in that they made so many variants and changes between models.
I guess it serves me right to ignore Suntour starting when I first saw an Honor in (1972?), so I do not know the various models.
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