More details - thanks! Adding sealant after a puncture instead of using it as a preventative measure sounds like the way to go. At least by the time I hit the road with whatever I end up with, I'll have all the sealant tricks of the trade down thanks to the submissions here :)

DD

I currently have 3 tubular wheelsets, and three pairs of tires which have been stretching on the rims for years, so at least the stretching part is done :)

So, I have a few tires to play/test with. While I plan to put some high-end rubber on the wheels eventually, since this will be a re-learning process, it would be smart to begin the journey with what I have. Based on the advice here, I'll also be getting some Stan's and a valve core remover and add them to the flat-repair kit.

Thanks for your comments and suggestions - much appreciated!

DD

Thanks for your detailed feedback!

Yes, I took a quick peek at the Totally Tubular thread and it's 60 pages long and counting! Found out I posted back in 2019 looking for some answers, too - I noted that I've always had others do the gluing/taping then and it's high time for me to get on with it myself.

I must admit to wondering about the ride of different tires. My go-to choice bitd were Vittoria Squadra Prof in 22mm and I remember the rear end chattering around corners vice being planted - something I'm not sure my aging reflexes will still be able to deal with. While I run pretty high pressures with my open tubular Vittorias (120psi), the rear wheel is always stuck to the road. Very confidence-inspiring. While I liked the lack of rolling resistance, the road feedback was kinda...harsh. This was in the mid-to-late 90s; from what I read, plenty of improvements have been made to the modern, high-end stuff. Personal choice, indeed; what specifically did you not like about the way the Tufos ride?

DD

Mucho thanks for your input, Patrick :)

The more I read here and in the Totally Tubular thread, the consensus seems to wait until I get a flat, then add sealant. Remember that post recently with the tube that had blobs of sealant dried up in it? Looked sorta like link sausage - don't want that, and as you note, at some point the liquid is going to solidify, then the wheel will have misplaced "weights" which would make for fun descents! But I'll go that route vice repair because this will be my only tubular user set and I already have one very-slightly-used and two NOS pairs of tires already.

Yes, when I last weighed the Alpina with tubulars it was 18lbs and something. I even have photographic proof somewhere - I'll try to dig it up.

Heading out today to get a brass brush wheel to remove the glue residue and some tape (I'm going to go that route to begin with). Not sure if I will make the attempt to mount them tonight, but if I do I'll post the results. Probably not a ride report as the weather still sucks!

DD

A couple of things: 1) the Tufo S33 pro I chose was very narrow. 21 mm I think. So they felt hard. 2) Tufos are sort of bonded together construction-wise so that also contributed to the hard ride. There is no suppleness at all in the side wall. I have previously described them as riding like a brick. And you cannot open and resew them. You have to use their goop. At least I did. It worked on a pinhole fine but I watch the container over time change into a ball of rubbery gunk and I did not like having that inside my tires. Lastly 3) aesthetics were terrible. I wanted and got a skinwall version but over a short time they darkened to essentially a black wall.

the difference in ride was indeed dramatic when I first rode a new set of Vittoria Corsa G+ 25mms. Heaven. Even better when I setup another wheelset with 28s. I got two actual flats on this brand —over a lot of miles so no worries—but I noticed whenever the road was wet the tread picked up road gunk too easily.

so I tried Veloflex Vlaanderens in 27/28mm size. My favorite all time now. None of the tackiness on wet roads and sublime ride quality.

but again these are personal choices. Like one may like a race care that telegraphs every bump in the road or another a smooth riding town car for Sunday driving!!

(neither of these ride like town cars by the way)

I learn best by doing. I really over thought the flat tire thing. (I hardly ever get them.) Read advice all over and was real scared about getting one. ;-). In the end I got rid of sealants because of the above complaint AND I observed a friend (riding a gorgeous 70s De Rosa which he raced back then) casually whip a flat tubular tire off and flip a worn spare back on faster than any club clincher rider ever could.

Thanks for the detailed feedback on the tires you've used. Yeah, I like a little suppleness in my sidewalls - I use 320tpi Vittoria Open Corsa SC/CX tires on my clincher rims and they are sublime when it comes to road feel and suppleness. I'm looking for a similar ride from tubulars and will probably go no lower than 23mm but probably 25mm. I've been looking around on Ebay for some tan wall Vittorias - or Challenges in 25mm. I noted they were available from a seller as recently as a couple weeks ago. Can't seem to find them now. Any suggestions for an online retailer of topline tubulars?

I do realize everyone will have their favorites, but I will be honest and say if they felt like a brick to you they probably would feel the same to me - and exhibit that dreaded skipping/chattering vice being planted in a turn.

As far as speed when doing a tire change goes, it's been my experience on group rides that a flat provides an opportunity for rest/relaxation/conversation/criticism/helpful tips while watching...you know the drill. It's almost as though the longer a tire change takes, the better for some! But, just for the record, I once changed out a tube and was almost done pumping it up - in less than 3 minutes - when the valve stem snapped off. Oops :)

Oh, and I'm the same way: learn by hands-on. I'll be having fun playing with these and seeing what I come up with for the best workable solution.

DD

Interestingly, my LBS has glue - but no tape! And the mechanic I spoke to said they normally glue unless specifically asked; he also told me they've never stocked tape and didn't intend to. Hmmm. Anyway, I'm committed to doing this set with tape, so will have to do some looking around or get it online. Which Colnago is getting the tubulars?

DD

my 2 cents to the Dude :)

I am still pretty much a rookie with tubulars, but the ride is clearly better. noticed the difference when I switched from conti gp5000 28mm (which are a great tire) to Vittorio Corsa Control 30mm on my 85 team miyata. (wheel build similar ultegra hubs and mavic open pro rims) and my 84 team miyata with challenge elite tubies at 25 is the best ride of any bike I have but part of that may be the light gel 330 rims

I have done tape and glue. Tape is easy, but Glue really is not a big deal, IMHO there is way to much fuss and feat generated here is the best video I have found on that subject Tubular Tire Mounting Cement Gluing Adhesion by Yellow Jersey; Thoughts on a Front Wheel

brass brush wheel is great for removing old glue without damage

I like the cafelatex sealant

suggest 27 to 30 mm tires you can get good deals still from uk bike shops.

If you wanted some green contrast with the tires the pave here would be a option, and many people speak highly of the pave and bemoan that is is discontinued....https://www.merlincycles.com/road-bi...yre_width=30mm

enjoy

Thanks for your contribution to the thread, Rich!

At some point it seems I need to pick up a pair of Veloflexes - the name comes up constantly as a high-end tire that's a performer worth the money. Oh, and one thing I learned in my reading during the past 24 hours is to leave about 1" or so without tape opposite the valve hole to help in removing a flat tire. Makes sense to me, because my understanding is the tape holds well, to the point it could end up pulling off the base tape of the tire. Slowly but surely is how I will approach both putting them on and taking them off. I'm not in a hurry; I'm retired, after all :)

I certainly hope there will be a noticeable difference in ride; I know this bike will feel differently on the road simply because it's at least 2lbs lighter than anything else I own. Since I'm pretty happy with the ride of my favorite Vittoria clinchers (open tubulars), I'll be happy enough if they match that feel and performance.

Hopefully I can get a good mix of durable, supple and provide sound road feedback. We'll see soon...

DD

I will plan on duplicating the 1" gap; of course there's no way the tire will come off there while riding - too small of a gap - but that's a great idea to get everything started. The sealant approach seems to be wait for a flat, then use it and hopefully it will take care of the cut/puncture if it's small enough. Another contributor suggested that if it was a slow leak that could be ridden on for a short time, chances are sealant would do the trick. If the cut is bigger, and the tire won't hold air at all, best to put on the spare and repair the tube another day.

At least once in my life I need to repair a tubular (and build a wheel). Perhaps I'll get to do both this year, maybe even on the same wheelset :)

Got a nylon wheel to take the residue off the rim, so I'll get that done tonight I think - but will have to call around, find out where I can find the tape since my LBS doesn't carry any.

DD

Sources I have used are almost always the typical UK vendors: lordgun, probikekit (all over) and most recently Merlin cycles which I just saw has some Veloflex and Vittorias in stock in the 50-60 buck range. Most are models phasing out which you will note if you watch things. I bought all my vlaanderens at good prices because they were moving them out. On a tip from this board I bought 5 more after not being able to find them anywhere for a while. I would not hesitate to buy their newer models.

this thread needs more pic and more of your alpina . Love the color. Below is my Bruce Gordon with pretty sure vlaanderens.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0c5477c5b.jpeg

Glad to throw my thoughts in Jeff!
Veloflex tubulars at Merlin are the remaining stock of some of the models that are goin to be phased out I believe? Don’t think the prices they’re selling for will last. Better jump on a few while they’re still available.
IIRC: my riding bud has snapped-up about 12 of the
Criteriums...

That beautiful Alpina deserves them . . . 😎

Thanks for giving me some more points to consider. Size-wise, It looks like I won't be able to fit anything larger than a 28 - anything bigger is likely to foul both brake pivots. Interesting that the YJ article shows to stretch the tire while mounting; I assume everyone is pre-stretching them nowadays because if I were to go with glue I'm positive I wouldn't have to stretch any of my current tires while mounting them.

What I remember liking best when I helped Wildwood mount a pair was that once we had the tire on and semi-inflated we could mess around and spend plenty of time getting it perfectly centered on the rim without worry that the cement would set before we did. Once to his liking, we just pulled the clear-red covering and the tire was set. The older I get, the more I like Easy Street :)

Lastly, I am on the lookout for Challenge Elites in 25mm - those would make me very happy. Should've bought them months ago when I saw them for $45 per on Ebay. I used their Elite clinchers and they were fantastic at 260tpi. Wouldn't be surprised if their tubular version is even better.

DD

First of all, what a stellar build! Looks like we both feed from the same trough - even running LF hubs :)

I will add the above-mentioned retailers to my search and see what I can find. Although I currently have 3 pair (and really, this will be my only tubular-wheeled bike), I do want to put a nice, modern pair on at some point. Veloflex, Vittoria, and Challenge are all on my short list.

Oh, for sure I'll be posting more pics; this bike has truly been neglected when it comes to sharing here. I'll fix that in the next couple days, always assuming I can pick up the tape locally. I may look online, too, see if I can save a little coin that way. Then, the completed wheels will sit and mellow for an entire month while I'm out of town; the test ride will hopefully go down early April.

DD

For now, here's a close-up of one of the fork tangs:

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e9b98cf830.jpg

I believe a certain well-respected American framebuilder still has these in his inventory - and uses them.

DD

Timely. I have no advice to offer. After years of consideration and rims/hubs/tires collection, months of stretching and hand wringing, this morning I decided today is the day. I will be using Hutchinson glue and either a Veloflex Challenge Elite or YJ tire(I have only one wheel ready). Mavic Monthlery Pro rim and Campy Record hub.
Edit: That is if I can find said Hutchinson glue.

This thread inspired me to review my stock. I was thinking that I had too many 32 hole rims and not enough 32 hole hubs. After looking through the stash, many more 36's than 32's. What a relief!. Need spokes and more tires. I did find a new pair of Challengier Parix-Roubaix in 25 size. And I may have a wheel set ready for them that I can put on the Bottecchia and later either the 610 or 760. Well the 760 might require Veloflex!

Thanks all for the inspiration!

keeper
 

I was just thinking about my keeper bikes.When you like something you cant help it .You just like it.Its not an intelligent decision its emotional.You can get attached to anything for no reason at all.Its only a real keeper to you and no one can convince you otherwise.If you think its the best bike in the world, then it is. Sometimes our fantasies are more real than reality .Ive always had good luck with tubular tires ,use to ride them all the time , still do but not so much.practical, durable ,dependable, actually easy to change ,great ride ,a little harder to find, bit more expensive, Ive never tried tape but if you use glue ALWAYS bring gloves on your ride,PS clean machine

CHALLENGE ELITE PRO 220 TPI TUBULAR ROAD TIRE

$32.99

• Use: Road Training
• Tire Width: 25 mm
• Internal Rim Width: 13-15 mm
• Weight: 295 gr
• TPI: 220
• Casing: Poly
• Flat protection: PPS
• BAR: 7-12
• PSI: 100-175
• Inner tube: butyl

https://www.probikekit.com/bicycle-t...B&gclsrc=aw.ds

Thanks! I just ordered a pair; with shipping they came to $83.64 - not too shabby :)

They'll be here in just a couple days, so I am going to hold off mounting any of the other pairs and just go with these right off the bat. Still have to snag some tape today.

DD

If you need some spokes, and you don't mind galvanized and kinda ugly, I have some for you. 72 of them, in fact :)

Yesterday I took apart the tubular wheelset that came with the Bianchi - gonna sell the Phil Wood hubs and Ambrosio rims separately. Saved all the spokes and the nipples as well. I cleaned them up best I could, and they're presentable, but they do have "patina". A bonus is they came from wheels that saw little mileage.

DD

Nice offer! I am going to stick to SS DB spokes. I like them too much. I will likely have extras myself once I replace the straight gauge spokes.
If the Ambrosio rims were tubular and Nemisis I would negotiate with you!

Oh, no problem - I'll not be using them, so maybe one of the co-ops here can. Btw, the rims are Ambrosio Durex Super Professionals and tubular - I just took them apart because I wanted the hubs out of there. But yeah, they aren't Nemesis.

DD

Got a crapload of pics during this afternoon's photoshoot before the rains came. A quick trio for now:

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e23bebd70b.jpg

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b459995be1.jpg

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a6c3034190.jpg

DD

Okay, finally, a boatload of detail photos of my seldom-seen and almost never-used Alpina.

1979 coded Super Record RD; drilled jockey plates by yours truly. Regina Oro chain and BX freewheel:

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...730dc81579.jpg

Jon milled the long slots onto the spring collar of the RD; note the chain peg taken down to bare metal at the top of the photo:

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5c89991958.jpg

Bog-standard Record hub with curved early QR blade:

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a041b75176.jpg

Jon also did this custom-milled post. At the time it was early days of Drillium Revival and he was just getting started listing items on Ebay. We'd already established a relationship; I wanted one of his modified posts, but wanted a mix of features that his Ebay spec items didn't offer complete. He said he had this less-than-perfect one (one or two minor pits, but I didn't care) he could use, and we agreed to a milled head and long, round-cut flutes. He even went to town to polish it up beautifully - that's not my work! I've been toying with the idea of infill painting the milled area, but then I think no. What do you think?

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9c96f9c23b.jpg

A good look at the milling of the head from the rear; again, would some black infill paint add to the effect or spoil it?

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...022e5ca725.jpg

The filing around the brake bridge reinforcements was so good I left them alone; I did remove a little meat from the brake caliper, tho:

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...33c0f9b756.jpg

The little flourishes on the cable guides are mine; I did them with a sanding cuff on the Dremel. I further filed all the points on the BB shell as well:

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d7f66434b0.jpg

Rings are cut down and shaped Record units with the obligatory drillings. "Mexico" treatment on the crankarms taken to the extreme - not by me - and highly polished, too. Front derailleur band has been milled out in front and rear:

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5b21043dd4.jpg

Some have deemed the rings' look "Medievel":

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...502f68a30b.jpg

Yes, I even drilled the alloy toe clips:

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1c1d060664.jpg

DD