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Rusty, but irreplaceable, hardware

Old 02-18-21, 08:30 PM
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mcgregorj 
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Rusty, but irreplaceable, hardware

How do folks deal with rusty hardware? I'm restoring a mid-70s Motobecane Grand Record. I have little bits, like the chainring bolts on the TA crankset, that can't be easily replaced but have a fair amount of surface rust. Simple Green won't touch it and EvapoRust turns the shiny chrome a dull gray color, albeit not rusty. Is there some other solution I'm missing? (No pun intended.)
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Old 02-18-21, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by mcgregorj View Post
How do folks deal with rusty hardware? I'm restoring a mid-70s Motobecane Grand Record. I have little bits, like the chainring bolts on the TA crankset, that can't be easily replaced but have a fair amount of surface rust. Simple Green won't touch it and EvapoRust turns the shiny chrome a dull gray color, albeit not rusty. Is there some other solution I'm missing? (No pun intended.)
If the chrome is gone, your best bet is evaporust, then grease to protect. It’s now “rider quality” hardware — perfectly functional, but not for a show piece.

Simichrome could restore some shine and leave a protective layer.

Looking forward to pics of the GR! I have one and really like it.

Last edited by noobinsf; 02-18-21 at 09:07 PM.
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Old 02-18-21, 09:09 PM
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Thanks - will definitely post some photos after I get a few more posts in. After doing an old GT mountain bike with Spray.Bike over the summer, I decided to get this one professionally painted, and it came out pretty nice. Now slowly building it back up.

And thanks for the perspective - that makes a lot of sense.
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Old 02-18-21, 09:21 PM
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Steelwool can do a wonderful job sometimes with removing surface rust and then even polishing the hardware a bit. Finish off with the proper metal polish.

Not sure which TA crank you have but Velo Orange has these listed as working with some TA cranks. I was able to use them to mount new chainrings on my Stronglight crank sort of. They worked to mount the chain rings together just fine but weren't quite right for mounting the rings to the crank arm. Can't say how they'll work on your TA but for less than $20 might be worth the gamble.

https://velo-orange.com/collections/...0-4-bcd-cranks
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Old 02-19-21, 01:58 AM
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buffing

I use a high a speed buffing wheel and some white polishing compound and a little hand vice to hold the small parts.it just takes a minute.Polishing sand paper works 400 600 1000 2000 grit.That usually take two cups of coffee
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Old 02-19-21, 05:46 AM
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I mostly use fine and very fine wire wheels. The 6" fine wheel is on a low power bench grinder, a cloth wheel on the other end. I like the low power grinder as it cannot rip a small part out of your hand. Gentle brushing but fast. I've used industrial grinders that were #*^%~ scary! The very fine wheel is only 3" diameter so the radial speed is low too. I chuck that into my ShopSmith/drill press. I've brushed a lot of aluminum alloy parts (ex: Campy brake calipers, stems) with that and it does not harm the aluminum. Good for caked oxide.

For steel parts and hardware, these days, I'm just wiping on a film of boiled linseed oil. Maybe 2 or 3 coats if I have time. It appears to protect well from more rust. However, except for multi day tours with camping, I'm a fair weather camper. The BLO may not hold up well to regular dew or rain.
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Old 02-19-21, 06:21 AM
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On old rusty bits I have sandblasted then used a high speed wire wheel. I can get a pretty nice shine.
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Old 02-19-21, 06:46 AM
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Chrome plating with surface rut, not pitted, can be easily dealt with with aluminum foil. I never use wire wool to attack chrome issues. Too hard, too oxidable and too bad about the first two.

Use a soft wire brass brush, to knock as much of the oxidized material as you can followed by a gentle rub with crumpled up aluminum foril...


These head tube lugs were done with the brush, foil and elbow grease - and nothing else...



Sadly, rust pitted surfaces do not respond well to the aluminum foil thing. The fenders were just too damaged for decent repair, so I cleaned them off, roughed them up a wee bit and painted them to match the old Torpado...



Dish washing plastic scrub pads are helpful and I do use them for surface cleaning and even low level alloy polishing (not a shiny shine but a satin like patina when done on alloy)...


Hope that is a help.
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Old 02-19-21, 06:52 AM
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I don't remember the process I used on this but it was a combination of wire wheel, OA and paint.
before:
P1020420 on Flickr

Pitting was not a plus!
P1030637 on Flickr

I had a good version of the hardware but didn't think this bike was the right one for it.

LC_HdSt_00 on Flickr
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Old 02-19-21, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by homelessjoe View Post
I use a high a speed buffing wheel and some white polishing compound and a little hand vice to hold the small parts.
i am curious about "hand vice"; I've flung more than a couple of parts across the workshop in recent months while buffing.
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Old 02-19-21, 07:36 AM
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Vice grips - Irwin Vise-Grip® Locking Pliers | Emedco
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Old 02-19-21, 07:37 AM
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This is what comes to mind for me
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Old 02-19-21, 08:00 AM
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@repechage - LOL a big clothes pin with a patent pending!
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Old 02-19-21, 08:37 AM
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hand vice

Hand vices come in all shapes and sizes some are wood some are metal.I have collected a few. Jewelry makers supply have them sometimes called a ring vice.Machinist use them to grind out small parts, violin makers use them to make bridges .Most are simple and easy to make but some are intricate examples of the tool makers fine art
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Old 02-19-21, 09:04 AM
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Hand vice? Just two days ago I found all pictured at the dump. Looks like I might have found a hand vice or two plus another clamp thing that have no idea about. I am going to clean the tools up and see how they can fit into my bicycle tools box...
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Old 02-19-21, 09:06 AM
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Thanks, all. This is really helpful. Most of the bigger pieces on this bike, like the cranks themselves, the Weinmann centerpulls, the Nuovo Record derailleurs, cleaned up pretty easily. It's just the little bolts here and there that look awful! These chainring bolts went into the EvapoRust last night. Going to fish them out now and see if I can get them to shine up at least a bit with some Flitz and elbow grease.
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Old 02-19-21, 09:31 AM
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shop tip

When you are using the buffing wheel to polish parts you only use the bottom part of the wheel never polish above the center line on the top of the wheel.That way parts dont go flying and you have way more control. A wire wheel is the easiest way to remove heavy rust from steel too .then buff.There are many grades of polishing compound.The course will grind away the metal FAST dont use on aluminum and the finer ones put on different levels of shine but still remove a microscopic bit of metal. Jewelers rouge is for polishing silver and gold and wont remove metal.Change wheels for different grades of compound.If you polish plastics or softer material you must use a slower spinning buffer.The high speed buffer will melt it
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Old 02-19-21, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by randyjawa View Post
Hand vice? Just two days ago I found all pictured at the dump. Looks like I might have found a hand vice or two plus another clamp thing that have no idea about. I am going to clean the tools up and see how they can fit into my bicycle tools box...
To an antique tool collector those two hand vises are prize finds.You done good.
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Old 02-19-21, 09:53 AM
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If you go down to the woods today.

Originally Posted by tiger1964 View Post
i am curious about "hand vice"; I've flung more than a couple of parts across the workshop in recent months while buffing.
I still have a cursory/forlorn look in the hedge for bits that flew out the effing window decades ago. One of the best ways that stops this is screw/fasten the fiddly bit back into whence it came or a dismantled bigger bit and dremel wire brush it 'insitu'. Never throw away old frames - cut them up and use the bits for what was called BITD 'special service tools and jigs'. Those old cranks, head tubes, chain stays, seat tubes etc (that no sane person wants)are very handy mounts when they are 6 inches long and can hold a fiddly bit nice and secure whilst you attack it with abrasives. Oh yes you must wear gloves and safety specs - the newfangled Kevlar gloves are great for closeup work.
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Old 02-19-21, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by SJX426 View Post
That makes sense. I presume the trick is, tight enough to hold the item despite the torque of the motor, but not so tight you gouge the metal.

Originally Posted by randyjawa View Post
Hand vice? Just two days ago I found all pictured at the dump. Looks like I might have found a hand vice or two plus another clamp thing that have no idea about. I am going to clean the tools up and see how they can fit into my bicycle tools box...
Some of those look really cool.

Originally Posted by homelessjoe View Post
When you are using the buffing wheel to polish parts you only use the bottom part of the wheel never polish above the center line on the top of the wheel.That way parts dont go flying and you have way more control.
No one has ever told me that! Great tip.

Originally Posted by Johno59 View Post
One of the best ways that stops this is screw/fasten the fiddly bit back into whence it came or a dismantled bigger bit and dremel wire brush it 'insitu'.
And then I lose TWO parts. Or so I did last week - I have hopes of finding it. Er, them.
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Old 02-19-21, 10:35 AM
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Why hasn't anyone mentioned electrolysis? It's simple, effective, and able to get at places where a wire wheel or sanding block can't reach.

Has the OP removed the parts? That's a necessity. Otherwise, it's easy to do with any number of DC sources, a non-conductive pan, stripped conductor, water and baking soda. Google it...
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Old 02-19-21, 10:46 AM
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When I did my “Rusty Resurection” ItalVega a few years ago, everything was rusted beyond belief. I used a whole bunch of different grades of steel wool after I chiseled the crust off. Yes, I had to chisel my way through the crusty rust using a screwdriver that I didn’t care about that was cheap and soft. I could have just replaced the Campy bits but chose to keep them with the bike for the whole patina look. I held them with a pair of needle nose vise grip with the jaws wrapped with layers of electric tape and then put a dab of Mothers Polish in the steel wool and worked the bits back to life. Some bits came back almost unscathed by the surface rust , others lost some of their chrome. The bike came out with a cool look of exactly what it is, a high end racing bike that was abandoned in a field in a Central California beach town. I wrote about it on my blog and there are pictures of the whole bike. joesvintageroadbikes.wordpress , see Rusty Resurection
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Old 02-19-21, 11:01 AM
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I have been machine polishing bits and pieces for many years and never had something grabbed. I use loose cloth, not padded cloth, wheels (softer and less likely to grab). The user must never allow the wheel to turn into the object being. Knowing how to used a polishing wheel safely (gloves, eye protection) is very important. Also, when machine polishing alloy, wear a mask or filter to prevent the suspended aluminum oxide from being inhaled (you can actually smell the product soon after the polishing begins...


Machine polishing compounds are available in at least three grades, from coarse to very fine...


Small bits and pieces, that are threaded, can be held by attaching to the end of an appropriate bole.
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Old 02-19-21, 11:48 AM
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If the chrome is pitted from rust blisters, there is no way to restore the part. But if it's just surface rust, an overnight soak in dilute oxalic acid will remove the rust and then you can buff it clean using any one of many methods described above.

Here's a before and after shot of a pair of Bluemel fenders whose stay hardware had a lot of surface rust. One was before treatment with oxaclic acid, the other after.However, if there is no surface finish to protect parts that rust a lot, like this one, it's useful to apply a protective coating to resist further rusting.


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Old 02-19-21, 12:48 PM
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Vise, as opposed to vice.
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